NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Something about a team be down by 21 points, then having one of their best players foul out with around 10 minutes to go, and the only reason not to leave is because 75% of the crowd got up to leave so you wait for the traffic to clear out. That whole underdog thing sure snuck up at a bad time.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

And my question to those of you who are for firing Nagy... why do you think we'll find anybody better?

empty rhetoric.

What is it about this school/place etc. that some great coach, BETTER than Nagy is going to come here for?

empty rhetoric..

The entitled attitude of an unrealistic fanbase, who thinks that because they were good in the NCC, they should be good forever,

straw man + ad hominem

despite having a financial, facilities, and recruiting disadvantage against almost every school in this conference?

Finances - Prove it.
Facilities - Prove it.
Recruiting - Prove it.

When you make an assertion, it is your responsibility to back it up with supporting facts and data. It is not the responsibility of those you disagree with to refute your bald statements.

Seriously, has it occurred to you people that maybe this is the best SDSU can do at basketball at this level?

empty rhetoric.

Sure there might be a team every couple years that has a chance to get to the big dance, but those will be moderated by teams like this years... average.

logically deficient speculation.

So what is it you people think the goals should be?

rhetoric

Because if you think we're ever going back to the days of NCC domination, you're crazy, we're just another also-ran in an also-ran conference now.

opinion stated as fact

We have no way of drawing in D-I players for a good team

opinion stated as fact

and so we're never going to get that great coach everybody thinks should come here after they can Nagy.

logically deficient speculation

In fact, we might get a worse coach...

logically deficient speculation

I'm sure that never crossed anybodies mind though.

empty rhetoric.

Call it "accepting mediocrity" if you want

empty rhetoric.

but I'm going to be a lot happier accepting SDSU for what it is, instead of thinking that a miracle is going to happen, and somehow we're going to get a coach that turns us in to Gonzaga

straw man argument

in one of the most unlivable regions of the country

have you ever been to Spokane?

But seriously, more empty rhetoric.

I'll continue to support Nagy, while you idiots keep being enraged that the teams aren't dominating D-I like you fantasized in your dreams before the D-I change over happened.

straw man + empty rhetoric + ad hominem--a veritable hat trick of logical fallacies.

And an excellent and instructive ending to a typical internet 'argument'--that is, an opinion stated argumentatively as opposed to a debatable thesis based on verifiable facts.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

As I was reading through this I was looking forward to Zoo taking apart those posts line by line.

Because you asked for it......

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Because you asked for it......

Thank you, now I can go to bed and rest easy.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I like pie.

[SoDakJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I like pie.

Pie is good. But, I hate to say that this is as good as the pie will ever be since I am so shortsighted. Perhaps a new baker would help, but our kitchen is probably the worst in the world.

Now, I have absolutley no evidence to back up any of my statements but that hasn't stopped me yet.

So, enjoy the pie and be happy that they allow you to eat it.

[Nidaros]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Why did they leave? More money and prestige, heck CSU threw money at Tim until he couldn't say "no". He makes more than Saul and Bohl combined, wish he could have finished what he started but I like Saul.

You are right on Ray Giac, he is the one guy I kind of waiver on. He did win right away at NDSU and was the guy who recruited Denver. But outside of that he was out of his element when it came to recruiting around here, he left and took Eastern Washington to the NIT and NCAA tourney. He also recruited Rodney Stucky, but like with Denver left before he could coach him. I think EWU was the perfect place for him, he was in over his head at Utah. I guess you could say the same thing about McDermott at Iowa State. Great coach at the lower levels but is struggling under the bright lights of the Big 12.

My point was that you should be able to find a quality coach. We found four in circumstances that were less than ideal. When Nagy's career is over at SDSU, I'm sure you will have a nice pool of candidates.

Perhaps I was incorrect on Ray Giac, in that he left NDSU to go to EWU and not Gonzaga and then moved up to Utah. I guess you can call that the Peter principal, ending back in Spokane Wash where both EWU and Gonzaga are located and he is now an assistant at Gonzaga. I do get your point about the number of applications and they would no doubt be many if Nagy left.

Who would be in those applications? We would probably get a number of Ray Giacolletti's who were victims of the Peter Prinicipal, many short stops and getting the axe at the apex of their careers or we would get those successful from the lower ranks such as former USD player John Hemingway who has had a great year at DWU.

Some think Tom Billiter, a former NDSU coach and a former D1 assistant at a number of schools would apply. He seems to have found his fit at Augustana. So ......


At any rate I would not give up our current choice for any of these candidates.

[bigticket1]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Which schools in this conference have a financial, facilities, and recruiting advantage over us? I guess you could say NDSU (minus the facilities) but can you name one other?

Most of the other conference schools ( other than SUU and NDSU ) may have somewhat of a recruiting edge since they have more D1 prospects in closer proximity to their campuses than SDSU does. However,they also have more D1 programs close to them competing for those recruits.

[LakeJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Steady movement up the Summit League ranks + best recruiting class ever + winingest coach in school history = no brainer. Nagy will and should stay. Go Jacks!

[LakeJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Oh I forgot, I like pie with SDSU ice cream

[Just in the crowd]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Steady movement up the Summit League ranks + best recruiting class ever + winingest coach in school history = no brainer. Nagy will and should stay. Go Jacks!

2008-2009 Summit League - 15th ranked conference in D1

2009-2010 Summit League - 24th ranked conference in D1

[SoDakJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

2008-2009 Summit League - 15th ranked conference in D1

2009-2010 Summit League - 24th ranked conference in D1

So the fact that the conference slipped means that the Jacks moving up doesn't count? So, next year if the conference goes back to #15 then the Jacks just need to finish 7th to be a success?

Oakland, IUPUI, and Oral Roberts are still quality competiton. And, for all the struggles this year, the NDSU men were not terrible. Perhaps having a team that is moving to DIII contributes more to the conference struggles than a lack of talent at the top...

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

The biggest difference between last year and this year was that last year NDSU finished with a #80 Sagarin rating, and there were three teams were under #120 (Oakland #109, ORU #119) while this year only IUPUI (#101) and Oakland (#103) are under the #120 mark, so the top of the league is somewhat weaker this year due to the absence of a team solidly in the top 100.

Also, while UMKC and WIU were at the bottom last year, this year Centenary and Southern Utah were truly, deeply awful. Centenary will likely be as bad or worse next year, I'd guess, as they bid adieu to D-I.

2008-09
80 NDSU
109 Oakland
119 ORU
196 IUPUI
234 IPFW
241 SDSU
243 SUU
279 Centenary
297 UMKC
308 WIU

2009-10
101 IUPUI
103 Oakland
141 ORU
222 SDSU
229 IPFW
252 NDSU
277 WIU
287 UMKC
318 Centenary
322 SUU

[Nidaros]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

So if we are saying that this slippage in RPI for D1 conferences is not Nagy's fault, then I agree. There are just some things you can not dump on this poor guy.

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Sagarin ratings through the years for SDSU:

2004-05: #281 65.19
2005-06: #284 (+3) 63.12
2006-07: #321 (-47) 59.22
2007-08: #285 (+46) 63.89
2008-09: #241 (+43) 67.22
2009-10: #222 (+19) 67.61

From this, we bottomed out in 2006-07 and have been steadily improving since then.

If we were going to fire Nagy, we should have done it after the 2006-07 season.

I think there is some degree of credit within the coaching community which SDSU obtains by sticking with Nagy through one of the toughest stretches a coach could possibly go through. You don't want the reputation of a place that chops coaches off at the knees if they have a bad couple of years.

No, we are not where we want to be. We want to be a perennial contender for the conference championship and an NCAA bid. We are not there yet. But the trend line is now finally, definitely upward.

Nothing in the future is certain, of course. But we're in a much better place at the end of the 2009-10 season than we were at any time since we went to D-I.

Success, when it comes, will just be that much sweeter because of the trials and tribulations we've been through.