NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

[FargoBison]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Not saying you should fire Nagy(I think he is turning it around, slowly but surely) but I never have gotten this SDSU can't hire a good coach logic. I know NDSU is a different school but look our last four coaches....

Ray Giacoletti- Came to NDSU as a Washington assistant and left NDSU for the head coaching job at Eastern Washington and later Utah. He is now a Gonzaga assistant.

Greg McDermott- Came to NDSU after turning Wayne State into a NSIC power, coached at NDSU for one year, left for UNI and is now at Iowa State

Tim Miles- Came to NDSU after leading Sw MN State to the elite eight, everyone knows what he did at NDSU, and he is now at Colorado State.

Saul Phillips- Who has done a solid job so far, had a nice background as an assistant for McDermott, Bo Ryan, and of course Tim Miles.

Heck, it looks like we hired three quality guys as a DII school and brought the other one on as an assistant in our indy years. All while playing in the BSA. I think you have a great AD, you play in a nice facility, and are in a league that has a bid to the big dance. If Nagy ever leaves I think you would be able to find a quality replacement.

[Nidaros]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Not saying you should fire Nagy(I think he is turning it around, slowly but surely) but I never have gotten this SDSU can't hire a good coach logic. I know NDSU is a different school but look our last four coaches....

Ray Giacoletti- Came to NDSU as a Washington assistant and left NDSU for the head coaching job at Eastern Washington and later Utah. He is now a Gonzaga assistant.

You sure you want to boast about Ray G. head coach at Gonzaga, to Utah and back to Gonzaga as an assistant? HMMMMMMMM Makes me think of a familar song: California here I come, right back from where I started from.

I don't disagree that you have had a few good coaches come and go but if they were successful at NDSU, why where they so quick to move on? BTW the last time we played Iowa State I think we hung a loss on Gregger and also we are getting one of his early verbals so all is not perfect in Gregger's camp, and Nagy hung a lot of losses on him when he was leading the Bison.
I do give McDeromott credit for making Glas look good at UND. Also he was a finalist candidate at SDSU when Nagy was hired at SDSU. So Gregger has mailed a lot of resumes in his time. Going back to UNI was going home no doubt. I think Jacobsen the UND grad made McDermott look good and funny to me is that Ron Glas lasted one season as an assistant at UNI under his former player Jacobsen.

So who has come and went at NDSU means nothing as far as building a program. I do like Phillips by the way, but is he better than Nagy? No I dont think so. Better recruiter maybe but he may have gotten lucky on a few good ones like Carlson. I see no reason whatsoever to make a coaching change.
I dont see AD Sell even entertaining the thought to make a change. How can he when he has more than one facility project in front of him and funds need to raised for that. There is no funds available to pay a premuim salary in order to attract an allegedly "a better coach".

If we were to find a better coach, we would have to increase the salary and line up all sorts of corporate sponsorships or raise funds to fund the premuim salary neede to attract a any bigger name. Thats not likely now or even later.

With State statues allowing only one year contracts, it would be very hard to get a replacement with D1 experience. It would have to be candidates like John Hemingway from DWU. I could be wrong on that point. I do not expect any big names to be sending resumes to SDSU.

Our transistion was anything but normal and we are just now starting to build a good program. Yes we made progress this year.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

As Oakland made the transition into DI during the 90's, they were pretty mediocre, even bad, until Kangas' freshman season. The next year, Jonathan Jones came in, the next year Keith Benson. A couple recruiting classes can turn things around in a hurry, and we seem to have some very strong recruiting classes coming in. Wolters, Fiegen, White, Carlson. Dykstra, Heemstra. Horstman and TBD. Where would Oakland be today if they had fired Kampe before Kangas' freshman season?

There is no doubt the team was better this season. They had more wins, and were much more competitive night in, night out. Saying otherwise proves lack of actually watching games. In years past, we would have been blown out every other game.

I'm not saying I am happy about moral victories. Improvement needs to translate into wins on the scoreboard. But to deny improvement is ignorant, IMO.

Comparing USD to SDSU at this point is also ignorant of the two schools and their place in the hierarchy of DI college basketball. There is a reason Stu hasn't come out with a blog entry about how USD is sooo much better than SDSU because of their record. That is an argument even he knows is pretty weak.

[KUlawJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

And my question to those of you who are for firing Nagy... why do you think we'll find anybody better? What is it about this school/place etc. that some great coach, BETTER than Nagy is going to come here for? The entitled attitude of an unrealistic fanbase, who thinks that because they were good in the NCC, they should be good forever, despite having a financial, facilities, and recruiting disadvantage against almost every school in this conference?

Seriously, has it occurred to you people that maybe this is the best SDSU can do at basketball at this level? Sure there might be a team every couple years that has a chance to get to the big dance, but those will be moderated by teams like this years... average.

So what is it you people think the goals should be? Because if you think we're ever going back to the days of NCC domination, you're crazy, we're just another also-ran in an also-ran conference now. We have no way of drawing in D-I players for a good team, and so we're never going to get that great coach everybody thinks should come here after they can Nagy. In fact, we might get a worse coach... I'm sure that never crossed anybodies mind though.

Call it "accepting mediocrity" if you want, but I'm going to be a lot happier accepting SDSU for what it is, instead of thinking that a miracle is going to happen, and somehow we're going to get a coach that turns us in to Gonzaga, in one of the most unlivable regions of the country. I'll continue to support Nagy, while you idiots keep being enraged that the teams aren't dominating D-I like you fantasized in your dreams before the D-I change over happened.

I was wrong before when I said JackerRabbit's last post in this thread was the worst post ever. This actually gives that first misguided, idiotic diatribe a run for its money.

I think Nagy should stay, but I am not some apologist for SDSU or South Dakota and think we can't demand excellence or sustained success. I don't even know why I am even wasting my time and energy responding to a post that demonstrates such an obvious lack of understanding about Division I basketball or SDSU in general. I guess that's five minutes I'll never get back.

[FargoBison]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

You sure you want to boast about Ray G. head coach at Gonzaga, to Utah and back to Gonzaga as an assistant? HMMMMMMMM Makes me think of a familar song: California here I come, right back from where I started from.

I don't disagree that you have had a few good coaches come and go but if they were successful at NDSU, why where they so quick to move on? BTW the last time we played Iowa State I think we hung a loss on Gregger and also we are getting one of his early verbals so all is not perfect in Gregger's camp, and Nagy hung a lot of losses on him when he was leading the Bison.
I do give McDeromott credit for making Glas look good at UND. Also he was a finalist candidate at SDSU whn Nagy was hired

So who has come and went means nothing as far as building a program. I do like Phillips by the way, but is he better than Nagy? No I dont think so. Better recruiter maybe but he got lucky on a few good ones like Carlson.

Why did they leave? More money and prestige, heck CSU threw money at Tim until he couldn't say "no". He makes more than Saul and Bohl combined, wish he could have finished what he started but I like Saul.

You are right on Ray Giac, he is the one guy I kind of waiver on. He did win right away at NDSU and was the guy who recruited Denver. But outside of that he was out of his element when it came to recruiting around here, he left and took Eastern Washington to the NIT and NCAA tourney. He also recruited Rodney Stucky, but like with Denver left before he could coach him. I think EWU was the perfect place for him, he was in over his head at Utah. I guess you could say the same thing about McDermott at Iowa State. Great coach at the lower levels but is struggling under the bright lights of the Big 12.

My point was that you should be able to find a quality coach. We found four in circumstances that were less than ideal. When Nagy's career is over at SDSU, I'm sure you will have a nice pool of candidates.

[JackFan96]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Interesting reading.

I was wrong not to credit Kai for a great game last night. Great game. And I picked on a missed free throw. You could argue that was unfair, and it'd be a legit claim. But, as I said earlier, there's a bit of a trend. Anyhow, enough on that.

Some posts are head-scratchers. But one question I found interesting is, What should we expect? We should expect, as we get up to speed (which, granted, is taking a fair bit of time) to be a contender more years than not. That's what I expect, anyhow. Sub-.500...no dice. That doesn't to it for this cat.

I think some posters are too dismissive of the USD men. I'm sure that is going to earn me some enemies. I'm not certain we would win more than five of 10 games against them. But that's not even very fair for me to say as I haven't seen the 'Yotes play live. But their transition has been smoother than ours in the early going. That much is fair to say.

The other question: What to expect next year? I don't know. Top half of the conference, I hope. AC is back. If he can play some D, we have a good start. And Wolters. And I have high hopes for Fiegen (sp??). Who knows if the freshmen will play next year. I just don't know if we'll be a bit up or a bit down. But I don't think the change will be drastic either way. Just my two cents.

[JackerRabbit]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I was wrong before when I said JackerRabbit's last post in this thread was the worst post ever. This actually gives that first misguided, idiotic diatribe a run for its money.

I think Nagy should stay, but I am not some apologist for SDSU or South Dakota and think we can't demand excellence or sustained success. I don't even know why I am even wasting my time and energy responding to a post that demonstrates such an obvious lack of understanding about Division I basketball or SDSU in general. I guess that's five minutes I'll never get back.

Wow, great addition to the conversation... let me paraphrase for everybody else:

"I disagree with you, but have no way to refute what you said logically, so I'll just insult you and pretend that I'm too smart to even respond. That way I can give the illusion of refuting what you said, without actually having an argument. Because I'm a big enough douche that I go on message boards to insult people who disagree with me".

Sound about right?

[jacksfan29]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

And my question to those of you who are for firing Nagy... why do you think we'll find anybody better? What is it about this school/place etc. that some great coach, BETTER than Nagy is going to come here for? The entitled attitude of an unrealistic fanbase, who thinks that because they were good in the NCC, they should be good forever, despite having a financial, facilities, and recruiting disadvantage against almost every school in this conference?

Seriously, has it occurred to you people that maybe this is the best SDSU can do at basketball at this level? Sure there might be a team every couple years that has a chance to get to the big dance, but those will be moderated by teams like this years... average.

So what is it you people think the goals should be? Because if you think we're ever going back to the days of NCC domination, you're crazy, we're just another also-ran in an also-ran conference now. We have no way of drawing in D-I players for a good team, and so we're never going to get that great coach everybody thinks should come here after they can Nagy. In fact, we might get a worse coach... I'm sure that never crossed anybodies mind though.

Call it "accepting mediocrity" if you want, but I'm going to be a lot happier accepting SDSU for what it is, instead of thinking that a miracle is going to happen, and somehow we're going to get a coach that turns us in to Gonzaga, in one of the most unlivable regions of the country. I'll continue to support Nagy, while you idiots keep being enraged that the teams aren't dominating D-I like you fantasized in your dreams before the D-I change over happened.

Which schools in this conference have a financial, facilities, and recruiting advantage over us? I guess you could say NDSU (minus the facilities) but can you name one other?

[KUlawJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Wow, great addition to the conversation... let me paraphrase for everybody else:

"I disagree with you, but have no way to refute what you said logically, so I'll just insult you and pretend that I'm too smart to even respond. That way I can give the illusion of refuting what you said, without actually having an argument. Because I'm a big enough douche that I go on message boards to insult people who disagree with me".

Sound about right?

Whoa cowboy, I didn't insult you, I said your post was idiotic. Big difference. You could be a really nice guy who made a bad decision with the post button.

Also, the way you run down the university and our athletics in both of your rants in this thread make it pretty clear where you stand. As I said, you can choose to belittle what SDSU is and can become and be a naysayer like the group that thought we wouldn't succeed in moving from D-II. Or you could choose to see what we can become and support that movement. Your choice, but its pretty clear what choice you have made.

You better check the stuff regarding the disadvantages you list as well.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I disagree with you, but have no way to refute what you said logically

There is no logical way to refute an opinion.

[KUlawJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

There is no logical way to refute an opinion.

My apologies for taking this thread in an even worse direction. I should know better. And to think, this thread was going so well before.

[SoDakJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

There is no logical way to refute an opinion.

When the opinion is based in factual errors, then one could refute that opinion based upon the general idea.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

When the opinion is based in factual errors, then one could refute that opinion based upon the general idea.

Well, one can point out the factual errors, and the opinions presented as facts (e.g. 'one of the most unlivable places'), but in the end, the statement can neither be proved nor disproved----('we should be happy with a mediocre team--anybody that isn't is unrealistic').

Of course, it amuses me when people use the utterly speculative nature of an opinion as 'proof' that it is correct. "You can't prove me wrong, therefore, I'm right."

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

As I was reading through this I was looking forward to Zoo taking apart those posts line by line. As each post was read I hoping the next post was the surgical dismantling it so richly deserved. I was thinking that Zoo's post would be long enough that it would take the edge away from being at tonight's game while I wind down and get ready to go to sleep. And alas, he completes the task in one simple line. It was as thorough as I had hoped, but now I still have to figure out how to resolve the conflict in me as to how I came to be rooting for ORU to complete the comeback against IUPUI (who I wanted to win by 50 at tipoff). I guess I just wanted to say I had witnessed an unbelievable comeback. A comeback, that while entertaining as Zoo's post, was also just a little bit short.

[KUlawJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

As I was reading through this I was looking forward to Zoo taking apart those posts line by line. As each post was read I hoping the next post was the surgical dismantling it so rich deserved. I was thinking that Zoo's post would be long enough that it would take the edge away from being at tonight's game while I wind down and get ready to go to sleep. And alas, he completes the task in one simple line. It was as thorough as I had hoped, but now I still have to figure out how to resolve the conflict in me as to how I came to be rooting for ORU to complete the comeback against IUPUI (who I wanted to win by 50 at tipoff). I guess I just wanted to say I had witnessed an unbelievable comeback. A comeback, that while entertaining as Zoo's post, was also just a little bit short.

Rooting for ORU? You must be torn right now - how did it happen?