NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

[91jack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Dale is a hell of an athlete, but he really doesn't have a good shot. Clint has to be in there and so did Griff because they can make a jump shot. Dale at times can play good defense. I do think Dale needed to see more time on the court yesterday, but it wasn't at the end of the game. And we don't know how hurt he was.

As for Kai missing a free throw, maybe you should remember how he made it to the line in the first place. That was the most aggressive I have seen Kai play on the offensive side of the court.

I just started to read this thread so this may have been addressed but here's my take on this.
Dale doesn't shoot 3-pointers but he shoots well from 2. You can say all he gets is tip in's but that's what this teams needed in this game. He shoot at a .450% from 2. Griffan shoots .354% and Palarca shoots at .337%. Clint s a good shot and just had a bad game.
If Dale was hurt, this whole discussion is irrelevant.
If you have Clint, Nate and Garrett, you don't really need a 4th 3-point shooter out there.
I think Feigen did some nice things when he was in there. He had the second most rebounds and almost as many blocks as the rest of the team in 18 minutes of play.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I'd much rather discuss the possibility/expectation of joining the MVC than Coach Nagy's status.

I think the best shot of getting in the Valley passed by SDSU over thirty years ago.

SDSU would stretch the limits of the Valley's footprint, and I think they're quite pleased to spend nickels and dimes on travel every year---as they must have one of the most compact footprints of any conference in D-1.

[jackmd]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I think the best shot of getting in the Valley passed by SDSU over thirty years ago.

SDSU would stretch the limits of the Valley's footprint, and I think they're quite pleased to spend nickels and dimes on travel every year---as they must have one of the most compact footprints of any conference in D-1.

Agreed, they are compact and there would have to be some incentive to add SDSU. I think the programs west of Illinois would be much more willing to consider it.

That said, I'm not comfortable with the idea of remaining a Summit league university forever. We aren't like IUPUI, IPFW, ORU, SUU, etc.. We share more in common with the MVFC programs that are also in the MVC. Would Drake, Creighton, or Bradly ever leave? I don't know the answer to that question.

To assume that our best shot has passed seems a little myopic to me but perhaps my aspirations are greater or unrealistic. I'm not sure, therefore I inquire.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Agreed, they are compact and there would have to be some incentive to add SDSU. I think the programs west of Illinois would be much more willing to consider it.

That said, I'm not comfortable with the idea of remaining a Summit league university forever. We aren't like IUPUI, IPFW, ORU, SUU, etc.. We share more in common with the MVFC programs that are also in the MVC. Would Drake, Creighton, or Bradly ever leave? I don't know the answer to that question.

To assume that our best shot has passed seems a little myopic to me but perhaps my aspirations are greater or unrealistic. I'm not sure, therefore I inquire.

Speaking to the 'commonality' question, I would argue that SDSU has more in common with Big Twelve or Big Ten schools than with schools in the Valley, or any other 'mid major' conference.

Now I'm not going to go all 'Bisonville' and assert that SDSU should hold out for an invite from the Big Ten, Big Twelve, WAC or MWC.

But I am going to argue that SDSU will be an oddity in any other conference.

SDSU isn't a private school (i.e. Creighton, Drake, Bradley, Evansville), nor is it an overgrown 'directional normal' (i.e. SIU, Wichita State, Missouri State, Illinois State, Indiana State, UNI).

There are no flagship schools in the Valley, and what that means can be summed up by a poster from the Saluki website who had this to say:

A) There were jokes about it being "high school stadium with a nice jumbo tron are true, but...it felt more like a college game than anything i ever saw at siu...and it was nice to see a replay of every play after it happened.

http://salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.p...=asc&start=405

SDSU has a long and rich tradition as one of -the- schools in South Dakota. SDSU's heritage is far more expansive and interesting than that of Iowa Teacher's College or Fourth District Normal. That flagship status--even if it's the flagship of a very small state--means something, it lends a certain depth to SDSU that a converted teacher's college or a grown-up extension campus can't compare with.

What am I saying?

That SDSU will be an odd fit always--SDSU would be at the outer limit of the Valley, the outer limit of the WAC, the outer limit of the MWC, even as it is the outer limit of the Summit. Even as SDSU remains one of the smallest of the charter Morrill Act schools. It's a statistical outlier.

So, from that standpoint, the only question is one of conference prestige--which I address thusly: SDSU will build the prestige of the Summit (they'd have to in order to get an invite to the Valley). The Valley's advantages over the Summit may begin to disappear, should Summit schools commit to programs where they are currently weak.

--------

This, however, is the caveat: If IUPUI & Oakland end up in the Horizon, all bets are off. Then, it seems quite likely that NDSU, ORU, and SDSU would team up to make a pitch to some other conference.

[Theee Catrabbit]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Here it is...."Fire the Coach!"....get real. Our answer to everything. How about the crowd actually cheering when the team is down? Same thing as football. What is wrong with people? Do they feel they need to be paid by the cheer? Sometimes the crowd needs to get the players into the game...but State crowds have this stupid "Show me you deserve the cheering" mentality.
But, I'm sure some people sat with their arms crossed with a scowl on their faces rather than getting up and making some noise.
Ummmmm....does anyone realize the talent that this team is getting in the next few years?
As for moving to the MVC? Well...call me selfish but I like rolling out of my garage and driving 10 minutes to watch the Summit tourney, no way do we host the MVC tourney ever should a chance arise to switch conferences.

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I was of course referring not necessarily to UNI in the Valley, but generally how they've developed their athletic programs (which, of course, membership in the Valley has definitely helped).

I think the second-best opportunity for SDSU to be D-I successful was a D-I NCC, either moving up at the same time the Big Sky did, or in the late 1990's/early 2000's.

An NCC where maybe you eventually could have a Twin Cities private school to move up as an upgrade from Augie/Morningside would at this point be a pretty solid, geographically compact mid-major, I think. There's definitely room in a 3-million population metro area for two D-I programs. Nine football teams is a nice number, and it's possible you could also have maybe talked Denver out of the Sun Belt into a geographically better league, and maybe UMKC as well to have a 12-team basketball NCC.

All water under the bridge now, of course.

Our best strategy going forward is to make the Summit League as strong as it can be. Replacing Centenary with USD is a good start, there. But the bottom line is that we need to have several league schools every year winning one or more high-profile out-of-conference games against "major" conference opponents, and do it for a couple of years or more in a row. That's how the Valley separated themselves from the mid-major pack.

The competitive core of the Summit right now--Oakland, ORU, IUPUI, NDSU, SDSU, maybe IPFW, maybe WIU, soon USD--might be strong enough to start drawing the attention of some better players--especially with the prospect of playing in front of bigger crowds at the state flagship Dakota schools. They may also be able to put enough competitive pressure on UMKC and Southern Utah to give them a kick in the pants, too.

So, root for all of your conference-mates whenever they're out of conference, because when they get stronger, the entire conference gets stronger, and that's a very good thing.

Meanwhile, if the Big 10 raids the Big East of Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and Notre Dame, and the Big 12 for Missouri and goes to a 16-team league (or whatever), and the Pac 10 expands (Colorado and Utah?), there's going to be another huge seismic shift in conference alignments rippling through Division I. If the economy doesn't pick up significantly in the next year or two, Centenary and New Orleans may not be the only schools to drop out of D-I. Those things could seriously shake things up all the way down to the little ol' Summit League . . .

[jackmd]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Could the Summit become like the Great West? I don't have the time or desire to review the core requirement issues again but the Summit isn't too far from the edge when it comes to loss of the auto-bid for the NCAA tourney. That said, does it behoove us to try and build the conference on the backs of newcomers to DI while holding on to those programs needed to maintain the auto-bid or do we need to form alliances to allow us an out should things dissolve with the Summit? I dislike being ignorant, especially when I'm the one to blame.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Could the Summit become like the Great West? I don't have the time or desire to review the core requirement issues again but the Summit isn't too far from the edge when it comes to loss of the auto-bid for the NCAA tourney. That said, does it behoove us to try and build the conference on the backs of newcomers to DI while holding on to those programs needed to maintain the auto-bid or do we need to form alliances to allow us an out should things dissolve with the Summit? I dislike being ignorant, especially when I'm the one to blame.

The NCAA is adjusting the 'core' standards in conjunction with the stricter D-1 admission standards.

Further, while there could be major shakeups among the BCS conferences, I don't know that it will 'trickle down' to the Summit in any meaningful sense. Why?

Because there are a couple radically unbalanced conferences out there (C-USA, "Atlantic"-"10") that could well absorb most of the reordering without affecting the Valley & Horizon, which are the two conferences most likely to look to the Summit for new membership.

That the Big East is living on borrowed time seems obvious, but it also seems obvious that there are enough basketball schools between the surviving Big East & "A"-"10" schools to form two conferences, without touching the Horizon for new blood (which would most likely look at Oakland first, then IUPUI, as a replacement).

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Could the Summit become like the Great West? I don't have the time or desire to review the core requirement issues again but the Summit isn't too far from the edge when it comes to loss of the auto-bid for the NCAA tourney. That said, does it behoove us to try and build the conference on the backs of newcomers to DI while holding on to those programs needed to maintain the auto-bid or do we need to form alliances to allow us an out should things dissolve with the Summit? I dislike being ignorant, especially when I'm the one to blame.

Last I saw, the NCAA was talking about the core and continuity requirements going away, replaced by a simpler concept of a league having a minimum of seven members for at least eight years.

The key requirements for new D-I schools will be an application fee north of $1 million and a conference membership invitation in hand. That should slow most prospective new D-I members down quite a bit.

[sfjacksfan99]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

One thing that was glaring in the wins by teams during the Summit tournament was rebounding. IUPUI rebouded very well until the final and they were whipped on the boards in the final. Oakland was simply dominant on the boards the whole tournament.

One thing I've noticed over the years is, regardless the height, Scott Nagy teams can rebound. Yes they have lapses now and then and there are teams that are just flat out better on the boards than the Jacks. But, look at the IPFW game. They shot the ball horribly yet were in the game due to the offensive boards.

That's one thing where Kai is going to be sorely missed. Was he not the only player to record 10 rebounds in a game this year (multiple times)? Cordova is going to need to assert himself rebounding next year. Assuming Fiegen plays more, he may be a guy that can be a "rebounder". Heemstra and Dykstra rebound like mad in high school. Hopefully that's due to talent, not the level they are playing at.

[Nidaros]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Although at times its fun to play Walter Mitty and pretend you are a coach and only good things happen. Today in the FargoForum there is a story about the MSU-Moorhead head mens basketball coach whose contract is not being renewed after being the coach for eight years. Of course we can always argue that he did not win enough games. His year by year record is disclosed. Coach Engen's gave a statement and as you can tell he is very unhappy. Sometimes its, not always the coach winning and losing. Its also about the adminstration and turnover. MSUM has had plenty and thats why making coaching changes need to be well thought out.

Coach Nagy's situation is much more complicated and like the MSUM can not be judged strickly on wins and loses, or even winning key games. Also not mentioned in the article is a study being done by the MSUM president to bring D1 hockey to the campus. I know very little about her other than she hails from New England and is a woman and seems to have an entirly different vision from that of President Peggy Miller. HERE IS THE LINK

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/271878/

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Fire the coach isn't a Big 12 chant

Kansas City Star article. The bottom line:

Programs, if not satisfied with the results, seem more willing than at any time recently to extend a coaching lifespan.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Maybe looking for a new coach isn't all it's cracked up to be.

http://deadspin.com/5494668/depaul-c...eaches-new-low

[Jacks99]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Fire the coach isn't a Big 12 chant

Kansas City Star article. The bottom line:

Guess that doesn't count for the Big 10 aka Iowa. For whatever reason, he had an exodus worse than Nagy his second year and is gone after three. Nice to have the trend moving up now.

[JackJD]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Fire the coach isn't a Big 12 chant

Kansas City Star article. The bottom line:

Thanks for that post. Good article...collectively, a different perspective in the Big 12. Some of those Big 12 Programs show patience to a fault.