Frost gets upgrade

[LakeJack]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Student fees make up 20 percent of the SDSU athletic department's annual budget.

Or another way of looking at it is that 80% of the SDSU athletic department's annual budget comes from places other then student fees.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

You missed my point, or I did a bad job of illustrating it. The end sections do not have sight lines as good as courtside, but they are still pretty decent seats. The section above the students does have awful sight lines when the students are standing. It is simply unrealistic to expect people to pay for season tickets there. It would be irresponsible to build that section twice in the next 10 years for the sake of keeping students sitting courtside, especially at a time when there are other more worthy projects on the horizon that will require that funding.

Youself and others have done a lot of complaining on this thread, yet proposed ZERO alternatives. So tell me, what would your proposal be for:

1-Increasing the number of chairbacks in a way that is fiscally responsible and so that people will actually want them.
2-Keeping the student section sitting courtside.

Or you can keep complaining about how unfair the students are being treated, and keep wondering when we will break ground on the new football stadium and fieldhouse.

I'm all ears.

Maybe you missed it. I said finish the indoor track/practice facilty, then once done renovate frost to include an upper bowl seating that fills the corners and is all chair back seating. I think that pretty much sums it up. Also have the ends under the baskets used for season tickets for now. Once the whole upper level is done their would be chair seating for the entire place except the court side for students.

Its my opinion and you don't have to like it.

I think the school can foster a better relationship to increase student involvement not just for sporting event but through many different areas to promote an environment were having a good relationship with the school and athletic programs and academic programs which will inturn create more donors in the future. Most on here apparently don't think many students will become donors and season ticket holders, but I feel you invest in them now, will pay off even more in the future.

So I have proposed my ideas but you must have skipped them, also its fine if you don;t care for my ideas, but I think my point remains valid and no matter how much you complain about it, students are getting a raw deal getting moved.

[el_presidente]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I blame the Board of Regents for bad policy back in 2001-2003. They wanted to punish SDSU for going Division I and they put all of the locks in place on student fees for athletics to try and stop/limit SDSU at the Division I level. Those policies have since been repealed but with the exception of a legally needed Title IX fee the amount of GAF to athletics hasn't changed. Look at it this way, students are paying the same amount of money to watch Nate Wolters and and NCAA tournament team as they used to pay to watch SDSU play Northern and Morningside and Augie.

The SDSU Athletic Department has increased ticket sales, increased corporate sponsorships, increased donations and increased the quality of the product people are paying to watch. Students have benefited by getting all of this improvement for the same price. A few years ago we had Butler in Frost Arena which I would argue is an upgrade from Augie. Do you want to keep the courtside seats? Then increase the GAF Fee by $1 and generate $275,000. Think of it as an increase in the ticket price for those seats.

SDSU has the second lowest GAF Fee in the state at $26.60 (the $1.00 for the Union Expansion is in that number and starts fall of 2012). USD has a GAF of $36.60. If SDSU was allowed by the Regents to charge the same GAF fee as USD they could do $30+ million worth of projects and make payments on $30 million in bond payments. Do you know of any students that go to SDSU over USD because of the extra $10 a credit fee? GAF fees are on page 10 here: http://www.sdbor.edu/theboard/agenda...cuments/31.pdf

SDSU also gets the short end on the amount of base funding levels per full time student. (See the thread here: http://sdsufans.com/board/showthread...Regents-System). They give USD $1,300 more per student in base state tax dollars than they give SDSU and they let USD Charge $10 more in GAF than SDSU (think $30 million in lost potential projects). That is a total of $1600 more per student to help USD keep up with SDSU. Anyone want to know the sum total? $1600 times 12,725 SDSU students is $20 million a year in cash. How many budget cuts, lost professors, and cut programs does that cover?

So, in summary and to get back on topic of the thread- if SDSU was treated equally by the state and regents the students could keep their seats. Unfortunately, it is going to take a lot of angry parents asking their local legislators why their students don't receive as much in state support as other school to make that happen.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Or another way of looking at it is that 80% of the SDSU athletic department's annual budget comes from places other then student fees.

Thats just student fees, what about all the money they pay into aramark which I beleive gives money to the athletic programs, also the bookstore I think a large part of their money goes to athletics as well. So inderectly they are providing more the 20% most likely.

lets break it down this way students are 12,000 and 20 percent of athletic budget. How many alumni, friends of the school, donors that make up the other 80%. how much state funding goes for athletics? I honestly don't know so I am asking if someone does? Or is it 0 from the state? So students are still paying their fair share IMO. But others will disagree with it which is fine.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Thats just student fees, what about all the money they pay into aramark which I beleive gives money to the athletic programs, also the bookstore I think a large part of their money goes to athletics as well. So inderectly they are providing more the 20% most likely.

lets break it down this way students are 12,000 and 20 percent of athletic budget. How many alumni, friends of the school, donors that make up the other 80%. how much state funding goes for athletics? I honestly don't know so I am asking if someone does? Or is it 0 from the state? So students are still paying their fair share IMO. But others will disagree with it which is fine.

AFAIK, Aramark is a corporate sponsor of athletics, and they give funding to the department just like any other corporate sponsor. Because a student buys a meal plan from Aramark and is provided food through that purchase doesn't mean they are in turn supporting the athletic department through that purchase. Aramark is just choosing to support the athletic department through their revenue streams. Cubby's is a corporate sponsor of athletics, too. Do you want to make the same comparison that because hundreds of students buy beer and wings on Friday night downtown that they deserve better seats because of that purchase, too. Same with the bookstore - students spend money there on merchandise (not books) and part of the licensing fee goes to athletics and then the bookstore is a corporate sponsor of athletics. Students spending money there should in no way be related to their seats at games.

The activity fee discussion is accurate - but remember that they typical student is paying $775 in GAF dollars per year, and that is spread between athletics, wellness, and the SA budget - not all of it is given to athletics and what is given to athletics isn't just for basketball. The typical lower level reserved seat at Frost runs a fan about 500/seat if I'm not mistaken. To say that students were paying an equal amount for those seats as other fans/donors/alumni isn't accurate. And I'm not trying to say that students should pay the same either, as the team needs students there to create the atmosphere that breeds success. But needing to move students to the end lines to open up another revenue stream that will make all of our athletic programs better (for all all fans and students to enjoy) is the right solution in my opinion.

[joeboo22]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I want to see the changes they make to the seating underneath the baskets, because right now they are horrible, and I like where the students are. I've never been a fan of splitting up a student section. If they change it so the seats are right on the floor, or at least close to the floor, I'd take it, but if they are just going to put bleachers where the chairs are, then IDK.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Maybe you missed it. I said finish the indoor track/practice facilty, then once done renovate frost to include an upper bowl seating that fills the corners and is all chair back seating. I think that pretty much sums it up. Also have the ends under the baskets used for season tickets for now. Once the whole upper level is done their would be chair seating for the entire place except the court side for students.

Its my opinion and you don't have to like it.

I think the school can foster a better relationship to increase student involvement not just for sporting event but through many different areas to promote an environment were having a good relationship with the school and athletic programs and academic programs which will inturn create more donors in the future. Most on here apparently don't think many students will become donors and season ticket holders, but I feel you invest in them now, will pay off even more in the future.

So I have proposed my ideas but you must have skipped them, also its fine if you don;t care for my ideas, but I think my point remains valid and no matter how much you complain about it, students are getting a raw deal getting moved.

Does Sell just need to waive a magic wand to finish the indoor facility??? It sounds pretty easy: just finish the indoor facility, then start phase 2. Unfortunately, your plan means no new seating and few new season ticket holders for at least 5 years, more likely 10 years.

The students are moving from prime to choice seating, boohoo. They are getting a different deal, I would not call it a raw deal.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Does Sell just need to waive a magic wand to finish the indoor facility??? It sounds pretty easy: just finish the indoor facility, then start phase 2. Unfortunately, your plan means no new seating and few new season ticket holders for at least 5 years, more likely 10 years.

The students are moving from prime to choice seating, boohoo. They are getting a different deal, I would not call it a raw deal.

But alumni are getting a better deal. not different, its better then the students which apparently you think is the way it should be.

Why not get get some donors and season ticket holders together, donate a bunch of money to allow the indoor track to get done, the new football stadium finished and renovate Frost. Then all the potential season ticket holders can have the pick of the litter because apparently they cant currently get season tickets . sarcasm intended.

Serious note, how many chair back seats does frost currently have with the main court side and end of court seats? also how many current season tickets does SDSU sell? I know its been going up for football but havent really heard the numbers for basketball what we currently have for season tickets available and what demand is there for total number of season tickets?

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

So the activity fee is 26 bucks per credit aprox, so if students avg 16 credit per semseter full time and 12000 students, with out doing the math, thats a lot of money. even if they only avg 12 credits a semester thats huge money for SDSU. I would support these changes if the students got to vote for the change first, and if they could allow an increase in activity fees to help pay for new facilities like they did the wellness center, thats one thing. Also would love to see SDSU find away to get the state to even out the funds paid per student, which I though was suppose to increase to schools with higher enrollments who would get more per student as a reward for increasing students or something to that effect. If that happened I could see SDSU use its funds much more effectively to to improve both the academic and athletic side of things.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

But alumni are getting a better deal. not different, its better then the students which apparently you think is the way it should be.

Why not get get some donors and season ticket holders together, donate a bunch of money to allow the indoor track to get done, the new football stadium finished and renovate Frost. Then all the potential season ticket holders can have the pick of the litter because apparently they cant currently get season tickets . sarcasm intended.

Serious note, how many chair back seats does frost currently have with the main court side and end of court seats? also how many current season tickets does SDSU sell? I know its been going up for football but havent really heard the numbers for basketball what we currently have for season tickets available and what demand is there for total number of season tickets?

Minor point, this isn't about alumni vs. students, its about season ticket sales and generating revenue for a program that desperately needs it. To that point, I'm not an alumni even though I have football season tickets and have considered basketball for several years.

I don't feel great about the students moving, but it is the smart thing to do. You second paragraph illustrates a chicken/egg situation (I think I understand your sarcasm), one that Justin Sell probably thought long and hard over before making this change.

I guess the season ticket holders are getting a better deal, but its the only realistic way to immediately inject a bunch of new revenue into the department. While the students aren't getting as good of a deal, they are hardly getting a raw deal either, IMO. Their seats aren't as good, but they are still pretty decent seats for watching a DI college basketball game. In the words of Darth Vader, "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." Just kidding. But not really in today's world of DI athletics.

In 5 years, students won't even think twice about sitting on the end bleachers, just like today's students don't really think about not being truly courtside.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I've skimmed through many of the comments. Here's some to PO once side or the other.

In 6 years there won't be a student on campus who's ever sat on the sideline in Frost, so it becomes a moot point.

If the teams backslide and the south side is baren from lack of season ticket holders....how is that any different than when fair weather students don't show up with the current seating arrangement?

The move to DI has benefited the entire university. Now, in an effort to sustain more revenues is a reality and this move is about sustaining the future of Jackrabbit athletics not just keeping one group of people happy.

Basketball revenues like football revenues don't just benefit those sports. They help fund ALL sports. So, an alternative solution would be keep seating the way it is and not try to maximize revenues and then tell 3-4 non-revenue sports goodbye. Then who's pissed off?

I admire AD Sell for taking some bold moves so early in his tenure. He obviously isn't afraid that decisions will ruffle some feathers in an effort to keep advancing Jackrabbit athletics.

[Southeast]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I've skimmed through many of the comments. Here's some to PO once side or the other.

In 6 years there won't be a student on campus who's ever sat on the sideline in Frost, so it becomes a moot point.

Bingo. This change ultimately affects a maximum of 4 years worth of students. How many is that, 1200?. That one group is ultimately just a drop in the long-term bucket of SDSU athletics. Sure they will notice the change, at least for the first couple of months. But good times at Frost will go on. Look at the seating configuration in 90% of the other DI arenas. You can't tell me this is going to be some kind of disaster. It's a revenue producing trade-off.

[Nidaros]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I've skimmed through many of the comments. Here's some to PO once side or the other.

In 6 years there won't be a student on campus who's ever sat on the sideline in Frost, so it becomes a moot point.

If the teams backslide and the south side is baren from lack of season ticket holders....how is that any different than when fair weather students don't show up with the current seating arrangement?

The move to DI has benefited the entire university. Now, in an effort to sustain more revenues is a reality and this move is about sustaining the future of Jackrabbit athletics not just keeping one group of people happy.

Basketball revenues like football revenues don't just benefit those sports. They help fund ALL sports. So, an alternative solution would be keep seating the way it is and not try to maximize revenues and then tell 3-4 non-revenue sports goodbye. Then who's pissed off?

I admire AD Sell for taking some bold moves so early in his tenure. He obviously isn't afraid that decisions will ruffle some feathers in an effort to keep advancing Jackrabbit athletics.

I keep saying student apathy is a problem and has been a big problem for decades at SDSU, and you are right it will be no different with a decline in the product put on the floor in terms of the south occupancy. Students if they really cared would show up in droves. TV was asked about this today on his chat. TV said they were some games where the student turnout was good but more often there was not there was not a good turn out. If 40% of 12,000 show up demanding student seating, we have a crowd of 4800. Add to that the rich townies who donate to get the back chairs, and we get a full house very quickly. Problem solved.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I support the move (although I'm sure I'd feel differently if I was a student). I would really like them to eventually move it to a bowl and then keep the students to one side with the extra seating from it. It would be really cool having all the students in one spot with the rest turned into season tickets. I'm sure everyone can picture it.

That being said, I'm finally getting done with school and this will ultimately make me think about getting season tickets. No better time than now considering there's more room and I'll have the money to do so.

Edit: I read on Terry's chat that they're going to add suites once the fieldhouse gets completed? Where? Will they fit? Seems like there wouldn't be room, but apparently so.

[HoboJack]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I don't currently have basketball season tickets, and have not ever really had much of an incentive to do so: $200 donation per seat + around $300 for season ticket times 4 (2 children too young to run around on their own, yet too big to not have a seat) = around $2000. The current inventory of seats for someone with zero priority points is currently worse than the less expensive GA seat I could get at the door. Add in the school night games for the little ones, games that we would miss due to other obligations = go only to the games I really want to see (around 10-12 this year). Adding to the number of premium season ticket seats had to be a priority, and IMO the current student section was the only place to currently add them. When you move around 400 ticket holders from the Low-middle of the North upper section to the south end lower level seating, based on priority points, it will greatly improve the available inventory for a new season ticket holder - maybe even enough for me to consider it.

I don't believe anyone in the Athletic dept has said that the students are getting better seats, only that they will still be 'good'. Assuming these will be lowered closer to the ground like they used to be when they were bleachers, and have floor access, I don't think they will be as 'bad' as some would have you believe.

Also, one thing not mentioned in this is that the Cheer-leaders & dance squads will now be directly in front of the student section - allowing them for the first time since they were moved to the ends to be able to actually lead cheers during a game, as opposed to waiting for the next 'performance'. This is an opportunity for a more engaging student section experience that should be a benefit to Frost Arena. If I was a student right now, I'm sure I wouldn't like this change on the surface. That doesn't change the fact that it is still the right thing to do for the facility.