Frost gets upgrade

[HoboJack]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

In 6 years there won't be a student on campus who's ever sat on the sideline in Frost, so it becomes a moot point.

you mean no one is on the 8 year plan anymore?

[NoHopRebounds]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I have a solution. Get rid of the pep band!!! They have been exactly the same since 1992, that's as far back as I can remember anyways!

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

at Oakland U the students get one section behind the visitors bench and when that is full they sit in the endzones in GA seating, along with the pep band. at the major universities they have to have lottories to get tickets to the game which means there are probably students that never see a game their entire career as a student. if the students accept it, they could use the endzone seating to make it hard on the opponents and more freindly for the home team.

[YanktonRabbit]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

In the 80's the student section was usually full by the time we arrived, and we usually sat upstairs. It didn't matter where we sat it was just fun being in Frost and at the game. Moving them to the ends is a great idea, and just being at the game is the import thing.

[sdsu_drake]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I think the free throw situation with all of the students behind the back board might actually give a better home court advantage. Student with picture signs, ballons, or what ever.

[Chains]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I agree. Win, win for everyone. I undertand the athletic department went to the student council to get their support and got it. Maybe this has been asked in this thread and I simply missed it or to lazy to read thru it all! How and when will they reallocate the seats? I am sure some current season ticket holders would love to move to the south side behind the players. Or,simply improve there current seating. This will be interesting. I think basketball season tickets need to be purchased by July 1st.

Any updates as to how this will be done?

GBGBGJ

I've skimmed through many of the comments. Here's some to PO once side or the other.

In 6 years there won't be a student on campus who's ever sat on the sideline in Frost, so it becomes a moot point.

If the teams backslide and the south side is baren from lack of season ticket holders....how is that any different than when fair weather students don't show up with the current seating arrangement?

The move to DI has benefited the entire university. Now, in an effort to sustain more revenues is a reality and this move is about sustaining the future of Jackrabbit athletics not just keeping one group of people happy.

Basketball revenues like football revenues don't just benefit those sports. They help fund ALL sports. So, an alternative solution would be keep seating the way it is and not try to maximize revenues and then tell 3-4 non-revenue sports goodbye. Then who's pissed off?

I admire AD Sell for taking some bold moves so early in his tenure. He obviously isn't afraid that decisions will ruffle some feathers in an effort to keep advancing Jackrabbit athletics.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I think it's a very good plan, revenue-wise, and in putting the students behind the baskets. The seating plan should add to the big-time feel and home-court advantage of Frost. I don't think student apathy has been a problem "for decades," as one poster suggested. The struggles that accompanied the move to D-1 in the early years hurt a lot, and not just with student interest but with fair-weather adult fans as well. That's all happened within the past 10 years and is turning around now.

[Nidaros]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I think it's a very good plan, revenue-wise, and in putting the students behind the baskets. The seating plan should add to the big-time feel and home-court advantage of Frost. I don't think student apathy has been a problem "for decades," as one poster suggested. The struggles that accompanied the move to D-1 in the early years hurt a lot, and not just with student interest but with fair-weather adult fans as well. That's all happened within the past 10 years and is turning around now.

I resent being tagged a fair weather adult fan, For your information, I have contributed a $150 bucks a month to an athletic scholarship since 1992. That hardly makes me fair weather fan. And I stand by my statement that we do have a problem with student apathy. Only 10 per cent show up to vote for student represenation, and less than 10 per cent show up for any game. When you have 10 per cent turnout in any election or show up for a game, you have a problem. I think our AD sees this and sees more adults willing to shell out 600 bucks for a season ticket. Looks like the students need to get on the ball and organize if they want their seats back. I mentioned that 40 per cent of the student body is equal to 4800 people. Do we have 4800 students at each home game? I think you know the answer to that.

[slosho]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I can't understand how anybody can see this is win-win, How about the students take their $2,309,459 (2011 figure) dollars and do something to enhance their educational experience (since that is the reason that the institution exists not sports) and then pay to go to games. How would that go over?

How about that as a counter offer from the students? Bet that would get the attention of the Ath. Dept.
(and don't give me the: "well everyone else in D1 does it" excuse. That doesn't justify treating students as a lower class.)

How about the pep band, I have been reading here they are going to be sharing the student section... and just how is the equal area (compared to existing) going to be calculated?

And while we are on Ath. Dept. policy's that don't make sense to me:
Why is it that the dance and cheer teams have to go to every game and perform for free (and have to hassle someone just to get new unis. See:the mascot uniform issue)? The PEP-band receives payment for their services.
I may remind you it is harder to study if you have to go to all of the home games and practice daily too.

You speak of student apathy, I would argue that is a direct reflection of the lack of proper marketing on campus, which reflects back on the department who is pulling the rug out from under the students, but I guess it dosen't matter in 4-5 years most of en won't be around to know any better.

Calling this anything but a bad deal for the students is likened to swindling an old lady out of house and home.
If you convince yourself any different feel free to sleep well, I wouldn't.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Yup.

Like I've said: I understand why it's happening. I completely understand. Just don't try to make it out like it's a good deal for students. "Seats behind the basket aren't that bad!" Seriously shut the **** up. They aren't that bad but they aren't as good as what students have now.

[filbert]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

It's short-term bad perhaps for those students who did actually get up and attend the games--that cadre of hard-cores that (almost) always seemed to show up right behind the scorer's table.

But it's also an opportunity, if people want to use it that way. You can set up two student rooting sections--the East End and the West End--and have them go at it. (Call them "East River" and "West River?") From what I've read so far, it's an opportunity and an invitation by the Athletic Department for the students to get more involved in the game. If you've seen games at Kansas and elsewhere, you've seen the end-line student sections really get into it--like when opponents are shooting free throws.

Frankly, from where I sit in section B, I'd love to have more vocal fans closer to me (you should see some of the looks I get when I'm in full voice at some of the games). I'm getting too old for that kind of stuff and need the younger generations to pick up the slack. Also, students, make the cheerleaders do State Cadence FASTER. But I digress. It seems to me that part of the message being sent by the athletic department is that they don't just want students to come to the games, they want them to be into the games. You can watch a game better from mid-court, but you can be into the game more on the ends. That's where the baskets are and where most of the plays, good and bad, get made.

Long-term . . . I was always rather puzzled at why the Athletic Department originally thought they could more easily sell season tickets on the end lines when they initially put the chair-backs in there in the first place. And experience has borne that out--those are tough seats to sell as season tickets. Yes there are some season ticket holders who prefer end-line tickets, but most want to be at side-court, not at the ends. So, you have empty seats on the ends, and--quite honestly--empty seats in the "student section" for most of the games. What's the athletic department supposed to do, if they need to increase revenue (which they do, to continue to put competitive teams on the court).

The students have amply demonstrated that they will not come to basketball games if the team isn't competitive. So, again, what's the athletic department supposed to do?

If the students had spent the last eight years or so filling the lower-level student section bleachers, then their case for staying there would have been much stronger. But they didn't. (And yes, the rest of the community, except the hard-cores, stopped going to the games, too. Winning = increased attendance, and that's really all there is to it.) My own personal preference is that the students would have had a better turnout and support of the team all throughout the lean years, which would have been a pretty strong argument to leave the students at side-court. But they didn't, and therefore that argument isn't nearly as strong. On the other hand, the athletic department--now, anyway--has people telling them that they would buy season tickets but only if there were decent seats available to purchase (decent being defined by those prospective purchasers as side-court). What's the athletic department supposed to do?

In a perfect world, everybody would have a seat at half-court (except for those purists who actually prefer the endline view, of course).

It ain't a perfect world.

[LakeJack]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I blame the Board of Regents for bad policy back in 2001-2003. They wanted to punish SDSU for going Division I and they put all of the locks in place on student fees for athletics to try and stop/limit SDSU at the Division I level. Those policies have since been repealed but with the exception of a legally needed Title IX fee the amount of GAF to athletics hasn't changed. Look at it this way, students are paying the same amount of money to watch Nate Wolters and and NCAA tournament team as they used to pay to watch SDSU play Northern and Morningside and Augie.

The SDSU Athletic Department has increased ticket sales, increased corporate sponsorships, increased donations and increased the quality of the product people are paying to watch. Students have benefited by getting all of this improvement for the same price. A few years ago we had Butler in Frost Arena which I would argue is an upgrade from Augie. Do you want to keep the courtside seats? Then increase the GAF Fee by $1 and generate $275,000. Think of it as an increase in the ticket price for those seats.

SDSU has the second lowest GAF Fee in the state at $26.60 (the $1.00 for the Union Expansion is in that number and starts fall of 2012). USD has a GAF of $36.60. If SDSU was allowed by the Regents to charge the same GAF fee as USD they could do $30+ million worth of projects and make payments on $30 million in bond payments. Do you know of any students that go to SDSU over USD because of the extra $10 a credit fee? GAF fees are on page 10 here: http://www.sdbor.edu/theboard/agenda...cuments/31.pdf

SDSU also gets the short end on the amount of base funding levels per full time student. (See the thread here: http://sdsufans.com/board/showthread...Regents-System). They give USD $1,300 more per student in base state tax dollars than they give SDSU and they let USD Charge $10 more in GAF than SDSU (think $30 million in lost potential projects). That is a total of $1600 more per student to help USD keep up with SDSU. Anyone want to know the sum total? $1600 times 12,725 SDSU students is $20 million a year in cash. How many budget cuts, lost professors, and cut programs does that cover?

So, in summary and to get back on topic of the thread- if SDSU was treated equally by the state and regents the students could keep their seats. Unfortunately, it is going to take a lot of angry parents asking their local legislators why their students don't receive as much in state support as other school to make that happen.

This.

[Nidaros]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

It's short-term bad perhaps for those students who did actually get up and attend the games--that cadre of hard-cores that (almost) always seemed to show up right behind the scorer's table.

But it's also an opportunity, if people want to use it that way. You can set up two student rooting sections--the East End and the West End--and have them go at it. (Call them "East River" and "West River?") From what I've read so far, it's an opportunity and an invitation by the Athletic Department for the students to get more involved in the game. If you've seen games at Kansas and elsewhere, you've seen the end-line student sections really get into it--like when opponents are shooting free throws.

Frankly, from where I sit in section B, I'd love to have more vocal fans closer to me (you should see some of the looks I get when I'm in full voice at some of the games). I'm getting too old for that kind of stuff and need the younger generations to pick up the slack. Also, students, make the cheerleaders do State Cadence FASTER. But I digress. It seems to me that part of the message being sent by the athletic department is that they don't just want students to come to the games, they want them to be into the games. You can watch a game better from mid-court, but you can be into the game more on the ends. That's where the baskets are and where most of the plays, good and bad, get made.

Long-term . . . I was always rather puzzled at why the Athletic Department originally thought they could more easily sell season tickets on the end lines when they initially put the chair-backs in there in the first place. And experience has borne that out--those are tough seats to sell as season tickets. Yes there are some season ticket holders who prefer end-line tickets, but most want to be at side-court, not at the ends. So, you have empty seats on the ends, and--quite honestly--empty seats in the "student section" for most of the games. What's the athletic department supposed to do, if they need to increase revenue (which they do, to continue to put competitive teams on the court).

The students have amply demonstrated that they will not come to basketball games if the team isn't competitive. So, again, what's the athletic department supposed to do?

If the students had spent the last eight years or so filling the lower-level student section bleachers, then their case for staying there would have been much stronger. But they didn't. (And yes, the rest of the community, except the hard-cores, stopped going to the games, too. Winning = increased attendance, and that's really all there is to it.) My own personal preference is that the students would have had a better turnout and support of the team all throughout the lean years, which would have been a pretty strong argument to leave the students at side-court. But they didn't, and therefore that argument isn't nearly as strong. On the other hand, the athletic department--now, anyway--has people telling them that they would buy season tickets but only if there were decent seats available to purchase (decent being defined by those prospective purchasers as side-court). What's the athletic department supposed to do?

In a perfect world, everybody would have a seat at half-court (except for those purists who actually prefer the endline view, of course).

It ain't a perfect world.

No it aint perfect, and my use of the word apathy might not be correct, when you consider the number of students who work part time jobs such as myself going on 50 years ago. When a job requires you to work during prime time such as 7to 10 in the evening, it pretty hard to get to a game although you might want to be there. To those students I owe an apology for calling you apathetic. Like Filbert said its not fair to those who have shown up game after to game, but sometimes life is not fair. Our AD has shown the courage to make changes. One of the things that I miss when visiting Frost is to look at the all the old team photos from the NCC days that hung in the hallways? Where did they go? I suppose they are now in Ralph Ginn trophy room, but I think making a small change like that had to ruffle some feathers. Justin Sell is the man, and I hope he makes more changes that will bring athletics at SDSU to a higher level.

I do concede that there was apathy by the adult community towards making the move to D1, but that has changed about 180 degrees while the same percentage of students seem to appear at athletic events. I dont have any statistical data to support this notion. It could have improved the last few years.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I can't understand how anybody can see this is win-win, How about the students take their $2,309,459 (2011 figure) dollars and do something to enhance their educational experience (since that is the reason that the institution exists not sports) and then pay to go to games. How would that go over?

How about that as a counter offer from the students? Bet that would get the attention of the Ath. Dept.
(and don't give me the: "well everyone else in D1 does it" excuse. That doesn't justify treating students as a lower class.)

How about the pep band, I have been reading here they are going to be sharing the student section... and just how is the equal area (compared to existing) going to be calculated?

And while we are on Ath. Dept. policy's that don't make sense to me:
Why is it that the dance and cheer teams have to go to every game and perform for free (and have to hassle someone just to get new unis. See:the mascot uniform issue)? The PEP-band receives payment for their services.
I may remind you it is harder to study if you have to go to all of the home games and practice daily too.

You speak of student apathy, I would argue that is a direct reflection of the lack of proper marketing on campus, which reflects back on the department who is pulling the rug out from under the students, but I guess it dosen't matter in 4-5 years most of en won't be around to know any better.

Calling this anything but a bad deal for the students is likened to swindling an old lady out of house and home.
If you convince yourself any different feel free to sleep well, I wouldn't.

Bingo. We have a winner.

I would point out that the band is paid through by the music department and I don't believe it adds up to much. Maybe it is more then I realize. Cheerleaders are through the ath dept. Also most if not all in the pep band are also in marching band and concert bands which takes up considerable time all year and if they take marching band for credit will cost much more then they are getting paid back in the pep band.

The admin always said if there is student resistance wait 4 years and try again. Notice all the brown parking lot signs that are huge and ugly but tell us what lots we are in? When those went up student hated them big ugly brown so they were going to fight tooth and nail to get them down. Admin played a long let them get upset and 4 years later no one cared or knew it was even an issue.

[slosho]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Goon,

The Ath. Dept. pays the music Dept. they pay the students... Semantics my friend. the basis of my point was that some ppl give their time and others get paid, the system is not perfect and should be changed.

Filbert,
The state cadence is slow because of the Crowd's inability to follow the cheerleaders. they have tried to speed it up, but the crowd continues to lag. think 20 cheerleaders Vs. thousands of fans.