2008-09 Recruits

[76Rabbit]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

I'm sorry for attacting cadsev, I have had personal problems with him in the past and I know of one person who has had similer problems with him (If you want more information PM me.) Now for Colton Iverson I watched the kid play last year and he played scared out of his mind, given the game I watched him play was against Pierre, I have heard that he really matured late last year and durring the summer, I plan on trying to watch him play in accouple of weeks and will be able to get more of a college level perspective on him. Does anybody know if he has grown any he was 6-7ish last year when I watched him play prety skinny but not a twig.

And thanks for the guy that supports my actions of posting, Just to clairify it says SDSUFANS not SDSU ALUMNI OR STUDENTS.

Iverson is a solid 6"9 in his stocking feet and still growing. Whoever told you that he has imroved and matured since last year was absolutely correct. No where near the same player. As for his body type, he is still pretty immature physically which isn't necessarily a bad thing as he will continue to grow. He has the frame to add a lot of muscle and has been working with his dad on that. His game seems to improve every week and I do think he will end up being a player that SDSU could definitely use. Pure post in my opinion.

[NightHawk78]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

ANYWAY, back to more civilized conversation. Cadsev, as I was walking back from my classes today, I pondered such a thought on the idea of recruiting based on who a college was recruiting. For example, if a D1 coach offered a full ride to a kid who qualified for in-state tuition, plus university apartment housing, let's say the estimated cost per year is $12,000 dollars. Now you look at an out of state kid, and the estimated cost per year is $20,000 dollars. Is there a fixed budget that would influence a coach to do more in state recruiting, as opposed to out of state? This is just an example, not of an actual school
12 scholarship players in-state: $144,000 per year
12 scholarship players out-of-state: $240,000 per year
6 scholarship players in-state and 6 out of state: $192,000 per year
that just kind of bugged me!

http://www3.sdstate.edu/Admissions/C...mate/Index.cfm

With the changes made last year by the Board of Regents in tuition policy, an out-of-state recruit would only cost about $1200 more (or $1600 more for a MN resident) per year than an in-state recruit. Consequently, SDSU is now able to afford more scholarships when recruiting out-of-state.

[BTownJack]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

At most colleges across the country this is a big concern. And more so with programs that don't have any scholarships to offer, such as your smaller programs. The coaches at SDSU are very lucky they don't have to worry much about this. The reason is that our out-of-state tuition is very close to the in-state rate. I would think that is an easy sell to out-of-state recruits.

[filbert]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Next post on this thread discussing anything other than SDSU recruits will earn a ban.

Next post on this thread discussing another poster on this thread will earn a ban.

(Yes, I am not in a good mood today. Don't push it.)

My roaring headache from this afternoon has subsided somewhat, so I am in a bit better mood now. Ban threat is hereby lifted.

[joeboo22]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Isn't instate tuition just a ploy to keep kids instate. I don't understand why a scholarship would cost more for out of state kids. Considering that the only reason they would be coming is for athletic reasons. That brings up the ? on how does the scholarship work does the college pay the state or are they just given a "free education".

[joeboo22]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

this is kinda off topic but with colton iverson I was thinking of the U and then I remembered that SDSU went for D-II to D-I accouple of years ago and with scholarships I come to this question, with D-II being allowed to "split" the money up and with D-I having only full rides how do they change that is it you keep what you have until you graduate or transfer or do they give the full rides to the kids who they think deserved them and tell the other kids sorry.

[BTownJack]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

this is kinda off topic but with colton iverson I was thinking of the U and then I remembered that SDSU went for D-II to D-I accouple of years ago and with scholarships I come to this question, with D-II being allowed to "split" the money up and with D-I having only full rides how do they change that is it you keep what you have until you graduate or transfer or do they give the full rides to the kids who they think deserved them and tell the other kids sorry.

I've had a couple of cocktails tonight, but seriously, sentences would be good. I'm not even going to try and respond.

[joeboo22]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Ok, if this is simplier, how does a school change the scholarship money with the change from d-II to D-I. Sorry about the nonsence post. I guess it didn't make much sence.

[BTownJack]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Ok, if this is simplier, how does a school change the scholarship money with the change from d-II to D-I. Sorry about the nonsence post. I guess it didn't make much sence.

Alright...this makes more sense. Hopefully I can make some sense myself.

Just because we are now D-I doesn't mean we can't still split scholarships. SDSU coaches still have the ability to split scholarships any way they see fit. Where I think you are confused is the D-IA football scholarship rule. In IA football the max amount of scholarships is 85. IA football programs can offer partial scholarships but regardless of the amount it will count as 1 of the 85. In IAA football and all other D-I sports, you are allowed a maximum number of scholarships but you can split them up however you want. A baseball team for example is allowed I believe 9 max schlarships but you could actually have 18 guys on 1/2 rides.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Patkran]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

[quote author=joeboo22 link=1160372003/120#127 date=1170347775]Ok, if this is simplier, how does a school change the scholarship money with the change from d-II to D-I. Sorry about the nonsence post. I guess it didn't make much sence.

Alright...this makes more sense.  Hopefully I can make some sense myself.  

Just because we are now D-I doesn't mean we can't still split scholarships.  SDSU coaches still have the ability to split scholarships any way they see fit.  Where I think you are confused is the D-IA football scholarship rule.  In IA football the max amount of scholarships is 85.  IA football programs can offer partial scholarships but regardless of the amount it will count as 1 of the 85.  In IAA football and all other D-I sports, you are allowed a maximum number of scholarships but you can split them up however you want.  A baseball team for example is allowed I believe 9 max schlarships but you could actually have 18 guys on 1/2 rides.  

Hopefully that makes sense.  

[/quote]

Is that the case w/ D I basketball?

[Rabbit74]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Posted by: joeboo22 Posted on: Yesterday at 9:07pm
Isn't instate tuition just a ploy to keep kids instate. I don't understand why a scholarship would cost more for out of state kids. Considering that the only reason they would be coming is for athletic reasons. That brings up the ? on how does the scholarship work does the college pay the state or are they just given a "free education".  

Response.

I don't beleive this part of the original question has been answered.
When a student is placed on a scholarship, the full tuition and fees must be paid by who ever is providing the scholarship. The tution goes back to a central fund at the Regents level and is then reallocated to the institutions by a complex formula.  Therefore more must be paid in for out of state students than instate students.  The fact that the student is participating in athletics does not alter the tuition rate or other costs. It is not a matter providing a free education but of the athletic department having to cover all (if full ride) of the costs of the students education.

[89rabbit]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

NCAA rules can be very technical, but to put it in laymen's terms, D-I Men's Basketball is allowed 13 scholarship players (or counters) and Women's Basketball is allowed 15.  If a school gives a player a partial scholarship they are a "counter" towards the limit of 13.  So the effect is that there is no point in giving a partial in D-I Men's Basketball.  So to answer joeboo22's question if a D-II school that has moved to D-I has an athletes on split scholarships the might as well bump him up to a full ride, assuming they have the money to do so, because whether they give a 1/4 or 1/2 or whatever that player would be a counter towards their limit of 13.    

To break it down further in FCS (formerly I-AA) Football you have 63 scholarships (or equivalencies) that can be spread over 85 counters.  In D-I Men's Basketball you have 13 scholarships (or equivalencies) that can be spread over 13 counters.  At least that is my interpretation of the NCAA rules.  


http://www.ncaa.org/library/membersh..._d1_manual.pdf

(page  221)

15.5.4 Basketball Limitations
15.5.4.1 Men’s Basketball. There shall be a limit of 13 on the total number of counters in men’s
basketball at each institution. (Adopted: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92; Revised: 4/27/00 effective
8/1/01, 11/01/01, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)
15.5.4.2 Women’s Basketball. There shall be an annual limit of 15 on the total number of counters
in women’s basketball at each institution. (Adopted: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92; Revised:
1/10/92 effective 8/1/93, 1/16/93)
15.5.5 Football Limitations
15.5.5.1 Division I-A Football. [I-A] There shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of initial
counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1) and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including
initial counters) in football at each Division I-A institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92)
15.5.5.2 Division I-AA Football. [I-AA] There shall be an annual limit of 30 on the number of initial
counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1), an annual limit of 63 on the value of financial aid awards
(equivalencies) to counters, and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including
initial counters) in football at each Division I-AA institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92)


Go State!  


P.S. Baseball is allowed 11.7 scholarships and they can be split.

[JimmyJack]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Posted by: joeboo22 Posted on: Yesterday at 9:07pm
Isn't instate tuition just a ploy to keep kids instate. I don't understand why a scholarship would cost more for out of state kids. Considering that the only reason they would be coming is for athletic reasons. That brings up the ? on how does the scholarship work does the college pay the state or are they just given a "free education".

Response.

I don't beleive this part of the original question has been answered.
When a student is placed on a scholarship, the full tuition and fees must be paid by who ever is providing the scholarship. The tution goes back to a central fund at the Regents level and is then reallocated to the institutions by a complex formula. Therefore more must be paid in for out of state students than instate students. The fact that the student is participating in athletics does not alter the tuition rate or other costs. It is not a matter providing a free education but of the athletic department having to cover all (if full ride) of the costs of the students education.

I believe that for budgeting purposes, SDSU annually budgets $10,000 for in-state athletic scholarships and $15,000 for out-of-state students. When they're projecting budgets and don't know the mix of in-state and out-of-state, they use $12,000 as a working figure.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

[quote author=89rabbit link=1160372003/120#131 date=1170354369]To break it down further in FCS (formerly I-AA) Football you have 63 scholarships (or equivalencies) that can be spread over 85 counters.  In D-I Men's Basketball you have 13 scholarships (or equivalencies) that can be spread over 13 counters.  At least that is my interpretation of the NCAA rules.[quote]

89Rabbit is certainly right on the interpretation for D-1 basketball. If you don't need to give a full scholarship to an athlete to recruit them, you can save some money (unlikely scenario), but you won't gain additional leeway on the number of players. You can only give scholarships to 13 players, regardless of the amount of the scholarship.

[EQguy]

Re: 2008-09 Recruits

Just one point about football scholarships. There can be a max of 63 scholarships but they can be only doled out to 85 players. Coaches can split as they see fit but no more than 85 players can be on a scholarship.