Time for a change?

[Prairiehaas]

Re: Time for a change?

Yes the QB struggled against a much better team at Illinois. I would be much more concerned if TOB had struggled against say Mo State. He looked OK against SUU and had a good game. IMO if the OL gives him some time he will relax and make good throws. Some downfield even.

[RabbitNation]

Re: Time for a change?

If there is going to be a change it will be this week and not next imo. This would give Sumner to get a non-conference game under his belt before conference play.

They only thing I will say: The goal of the season is to get to 8 wins, who cares if they are confernece or non-conference. We play each week to get to that number. Who cares about conference, just win 8 games!

BTW, TOB is a wreck and if he is holding back play calling than make the change. I guarantee our backups can play as well as TOB, or we should cut them.

[Theee Catrabbit]

Re: Time for a change?

We should have our answer in 2 and a half days. Remember Berry had that awesome(insert sarcasm) game against Iowa State and then went on to be pretty productive for the rest of the season. I would say generally Illinois has a better team than Iowa State. I believe Cal Poly is a make or break game for TOB, whether we win or lose, if he controls his turnovers and is productive he keeps the job. I'm not clamoring for Sumner per se. I don't think there is one person who doesn't want TOB to be successful, we all want him to be successful....I'll come out and say it, he needs to stop being a frickin' *****. Stand up, find your receivers and stop being worried if you are going to get hit or not. Go be a defensive back if he is worried about getting tackled, stop wasting our time and his own.

[thumper_76]

Re: Time for a change?

The thing that I wonder about is mayber Sumner is more of a game player than a practice player. There are numerous guys you hear about who don't look stellar in practice but are outstanding in the game, and vice versa. Maybe thats what we have going on here?

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Time for a change?

The thing that I wonder about is mayber Sumner is more of a game player than a practice player. There are numerous guys you hear about who don't look stellar in practice but are outstanding in the game, and vice versa. Maybe thats what we have going on here?

How in the world would that be the case when no one knows how he looks in a game?

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Time for a change?

How in the world would that be the case when no one knows how he looks in a game?

I think his point was that maybe Sumner is one of those guys who thrives in the limelight but not so much during the week. Yes, hard to know unless he's playing on Saturday's, but also hard to play on Saturday's when you're not showing in Sunday thru Thursday.

We always had "weekday All-Americans", but seldom were there guys that just showed up on game day. Either they had it all the time or they didn't.

Hope someone plays good under center this week to get things going in a positive direction.

[ghomestead1]

Re: Time for a change?

Yes the QB struggled against a much better team at Illinois. I would be much more concerned if TOB had struggled against say Mo State. He looked OK against SUU and had a good game. IMO if the OL gives him some time he will relax and make good throws. Some downfield even.

SDSU beat SUU not because of TOB, in fact his pick six got the ball rolling towards there comeback. While watching the game notice that most of his yards come from YAC. If looking at the stats only it appears he didn't have that bad a game but most of the yards occured after the catch.

Bottom line is they could win some games if TO doesn't make some mistakes and lets his team carry him, maybe they can make the playoffs if they just run the ball 95% of the time and don't let him throw it much. But I think everyone knows that making the playoffs and winning a national championship are 2 different things. If SDSU want to make a run in the playoffs which is the ultimate goal of every team in IMO TOB is definitely not the guy for that. Look at the championship teams in the past and you will find one thing thats always consistent, these teams have qb's that can carry them when things are not always good.

[ringthebells]

Re: Time for a change?

I'm ready for Austin to play.

[AugieJackFan]

Re: Time for a change?

TOB has plenty of talent but is extremely inconsistent. He plays well one week and horrible the next. When he’s playing well he’s finding open receivers and not throwing into double and triple coverage. I've never seen a QB throw into more double and triple coverages in my life. If the receiver has 2 or 3 guys on him THROW THE BALL AWAY. There’s nothing wrong with a punt. I think he deserves the start this week if nothing else because he played so poorly last week. Up and down is his thing so he’s due for an up week.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Time for a change?

TOB has plenty of talent but is extremely inconsistent. He plays well one week and horrible the next. When he’s playing well he’s finding open receivers and not throwing into double and triple coverage. I've never seen a QB throw into more double and triple coverages in my life. If the receiver has 2 or 3 guys on him THROW THE BALL AWAY. There’s nothing wrong with a punt. I think he deserves the start this week if nothing else because he played so poorly last week. Up and down is his thing so he’s due for an up week.

If this was how it worked, I could agree. But since its not, I just hope he proves the lot of us wrong and does play well this week.

However, he's done enough for me to hope Austin plays. Some people have said "look at the SUU game, he played well." Whenever you throw a pick six, its not a good game.

This just in from our top reporters, if your offense is scoring points for the other team, its not good.

[mitchell]

Re: Time for a change?

*long read but I feel I brought up some good points*

People have piled on O-Coordinator Luke Meadows for the past couple years and I've always defended him with the "Look at 08 when our offense was tops in the country".

But since TOB has taken over at QB the offensive passing game has become very predictable and very inconsistent. Some of that has to do with TOB and some has to do with the plays he runs. It seems that 75% of TOB's passes are scripted 3-step and release passes. Either quick outs, swing passes, or quick slants designed so that the QB doesn't have to make any reads and just can step back and rip.

The problem is these passes have become very predictable. I'm not sure if the fault is in the O-Coordinator or if it's on the fact that he can't trust his QB to make reads.

- The Illinois pick 6 was a great play by the LB. TOB took a quick drop and ripped it to the outside slant. The LB, maybe because of film study or because he read TOB's eyes, let his guy go wide open and sat in the outside lane. Even the announcer said it was less the QB's fault and more of a great play by the LB.

- The first SUU Int, a quick screen to the left, get's batted into the air because Witzmann completely whiffs on his cut block and leaves his DE right in the passing lane.

- The second SUU Int, a bad snap from center and missed block by the WR. TOB's only route on that play was the quick screen to the WR. The WR next to him misses his block and the opposing CB jumps the route.

If you look at TOB's INTs, they aren't coming from him scanning the D and making a read down field. They come from these designed quick hitters that are to the far outside. Plays were TOB's responsibility is to hike, turn and throw and plays that the D has seen on tape multiple times.

(Even more INT's come to mind this way. The NDSU game last year with Boyer Interception, the Minnesota game where a out pass gets grabbed.)

Can anybody think of another team that throws as many outside the hash, screen passes like SDSU does? These passes seem high risk, low reward to me. Even Coach Stig said to open the year, "We aren't going to be a team that throws the ball downfield." My question is why not?
It seemed to work with JaRon Harris. It seemed to work in the first half of the Montana game when we were chucking the ball downfield to Fox & Steffen.

How about we run the ball down teams throats until they start bringing the safeties up and than throw the ball deep. Which is supposedly TOB's strength.

**end rant**

[KUlawJack]

Re: Time for a change?

*long read but I feel I brought up some good points*

People have piled on O-Coordinator Luke Meadows for the past couple years and I've always defended him with the "Look at 08 when our offense was tops in the country".

But since TOB has taken over at QB the offensive passing game has become very predictable and very inconsistent. Some of that has to do with TOB and some has to do with the plays he runs. It seems that 75% of TOB's passes are scripted 3-step and release passes. Either quick outs, swing passes, or quick slants designed so that the QB doesn't have to make any reads and just can step back and rip.

The problem is these passes have become very predictable. I'm not sure if the fault is in the O-Coordinator or if it's on the fact that he can't trust his QB to make reads.

- The Illinois pick 6 was a great play by the LB. TOB took a quick drop and ripped it to the outside slant. The LB, maybe because of film study or because he read TOB's eyes, let his guy go wide open and sat in the outside lane. Even the announcer said it was less the QB's fault and more of a great play by the LB.

- The first SUU Int, a quick screen to the left, get's batted into the air because Witzmann completely whiffs on his cut block and leaves his DE right in the passing lane.

- The second SUU Int, a bad snap from center and missed block by the WR. TOB's only route on that play was the quick screen to the WR. The WR next to him misses his block and the opposing CB jumps the route.

If you look at TOB's INTs, they aren't coming from him scanning the D and making a read down field. They come from these designed quick hitters that are to the far outside. Plays were TOB's responsibility is to hike, turn and throw and plays that the D has seen on tape multiple times.

(Even more INT's come to mind this way. The NDSU game last year with Boyer Interception, the Minnesota game where a out pass gets grabbed.)

Can anybody think of another team that throws as many outside the hash, screen passes like SDSU does? These passes seem high risk, low reward to me. Even Coach Stig said to open the year, "We aren't going to be a team that throws the ball downfield." My question is why not?
It seemed to work with JaRon Harris. It seemed to work in the first half of the Montana game when we were chucking the ball downfield to Fox & Steffen.

How about we run the ball down teams throats until they start bringing the safeties up and than throw the ball deep. Which is supposedly TOB's strength.

**end rant**

I can provide my opinion on some of your questions, but its just my thoughts. As for TOB's second pick against SUU that went for six - snap is high, bobbled, timing is off, throw the f-ing thing over everyone's head into the crowd. Don't make one error, which was not his fault, turn into a second error that is even worse.

As for the pick six against Illinois, all that LB has to do is watch film and see that TOB's head never turns. You can pretty much tell which direction the ball is going from the minute he turns his head after the snap. Good play by him no doubt, but he's not the only one we've seen do this.

I'm friends with some of the guys that have played both offense and defense for the Jacks over the past decade. They all say that the playbook is indeed limited given TOB's inability to make reads down the field. That is what I said earlier and I stick by that statement because these guys were all good football players and very intelligent guys.

[jack43]

Re: Time for a change?

I can provide my opinion on some of your questions, but its just my thoughts. As for TOB's second pick against SUU that went for six - snap is high, bobbled, timing is off, throw the f-ing thing over everyone's head into the crowd. Don't make one error, which was not his fault, turn into a second error that is even worse.

As for the pick six against Illinois, all that LB has to do is watch film and see that TOB's head never turns. You can pretty much tell which direction the ball is going from the minute he turns his head after the snap. Good play by him no doubt, but he's not the only one we've seen do this.

I'm friends with some of the guys that have played both offense and defense for the Jacks over the past decade. They all say that the playbook is indeed limited given TOB's inability to make reads down the field. That is what I said earlier and I stick by that statement because these guys were all good football players and very intelligent guys.

I agree with KU.....if you want us to throw 3-4 pics/game - start throwing it consistently to the second level and downfield. We will not be able to stay in many games. The playbook hasn't changed. Personnel has. The coaches are giving us the best chance to win games given the players that are playing. If we want to open up the playbook...we have to change personnel. IMO.

[mitchell]

Re: Time for a change?

I agree with KU.....if you want us to throw 3-4 pics/game - start throwing it consistently to the second level and downfield. We will not be able to stay in many games. The playbook hasn't changed. Personnel has. The coaches are giving us the best chance to win games given the players that are playing. If we want to open up the playbook...we have to change personnel. IMO.

So isn' this still on the coaches for not bringing in the right personnel to run their offense?

Plus, I'd rather throw 3-4 picks in the middle of the field than throw 1 on the sideline that can be taken to the house with ease.
What's the point of throwing a ball 25 yards horizontally in order to gain 3-5 yards vertically.

My armchair coach theory would be to open it up and let TOB throw down the field infront of him and see what happens. If he can't handle it, than make the switch and move on with Sumner. If TOB has limited the play calling that much than I'm surprised the switch hasn't already been made.

One thing that TOB has always had and something that might be hard to overcome is that split second panic move. When everything breaks down and he has to get rid of it in a hurry, he more often than not will make the wrong decision.

[ringthebells]

Re: Time for a change?

So isn' this still on the coaches for not bringing in the right personnel to run their offense?

Plus, I'd rather throw 3-4 picks in the middle of the field than throw 1 on the sideline that can be taken to the house with ease.
What's the point of throwing a ball 25 yards horizontally in order to gain 3-5 yards vertically.

My armchair coach theory would be to open it up and let TOB throw down the field infront of him and see what happens. If he can't handle it, than make the switch and move on with Sumner. If TOB has limited the play calling that much than I'm surprised the switch hasn't already been made.

One thing that TOB has always had and something that might be hard to overcome is that split second panic move. When everything breaks down and he has to get rid of it in a hurry, he more often than not will make the wrong decision.

My arm chair opinion is to open it up and let Austin throw it down the field or wherever the coaches think he should. Two and a half years is enough time to evaluate a QB. O'Brien is servicable as a backup. He doesn't have what it takes to lead this team. Move on and see what comes of #6. I've seen enough of him growing up to trust he can run the show just fine.