2011 Recruits

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

To be fair, Miss St. has a great WBB team

True. But like Oklahoma, they don't play deep.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2011 Recruits

To expand on my thought. The best players i have seen at SDSU were not tall, they were athletic.

Melissa Pater
Jen Werkentien (SP ?)
Megan Vogel
Maria Boever

None of these women were over 6'0". In my opinion, Anne Marie Brown is better then Atwal. I hope she fills the last spot.

Have you seen either play? I would love to have Anne Marie Brown on the team and think she will indeed take the last scholarship. Atwal would have been a unique player for this team. Somone very long and athletic who can run the floor and block shots. Sooner or later we are going to need a get a player with her skills to go beyond the second round.

[bigticket1]

Re: 2011 Recruits

True. But like Oklahoma, they don't play deep.

Other than UConn,who probably has 6 HS All-Americans on the bench, I think you'll find that most of the really good teams only go 7 or 8 deep until they have the game well under control.

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

Other than UConn,who probably has 6 HS All-Americans on the bench, I think you'll find that most of the really good teams only go 7 or 8 deep until they have the game well under control.

Again, I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that Mississippi State can take a player like Alwal, bury her on the end of the bench for two years and roll her out as a finished product her 3rd or 4th year (cf Oklahoma and Olajuwon). Because SDSU plays a much deeper rotation and plays a game that requires very exact execution, especially on defense, it's tough to take a risk on someone like Alwal.

[bigticket1]

Re: 2011 Recruits

Again, I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that Mississippi State can take a player like Alwal, bury her on the end of the bench for two years and roll her out as a finished product her 3rd or 4th year (cf Oklahoma and Olajuwon). Because SDSU plays a much deeper rotation and plays a game that requires very exact execution, especially on defense, it's tough to take a risk on someone like Alwal.

Martha's ready right now to more than compete defensively and rebounding wise at this level. Having had the priviledge to watch Maria play 4 years of high school ball,she was nowhere close to being the dominating defensive player that Martha is. Martha needs more polish on her offense. I know the Jacks staff had ample opportunity to see Martha while recruiting Gabby and at team camps , so either they thought she wasn't a good fit for the system or she might not have been interested. Either way I'm fine with that - it will be fun to see how she develops at Miss. State.

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

Martha's ready right now to more than compete defensively and rebounding wise at this level. Having had the priviledge to watch Maria play 4 years of high school ball,she was nowhere close to being the dominating defensive player that Martha is. Martha needs more polish on her offense. I know the Jacks staff had ample opportunity to see Martha while recruiting Gabby and at team camps , so either they thought she wasn't a good fit for the system or she might not have been interested. Either way I'm fine with that - it will be fun to see how she develops at Miss. State.

Here's the thing: In D-1 you're basically playing against nothing but HS first and second team all-staters. You can't count on being able to do what you did against 95% of your opponents.

The question with Alwal isn't how good she is on defense, it's how good she would be in the Jacks defensive system which is heavily dependent on being flexible in handling assignments.

Here's an example:

The Jacks rarely go under or over screens, and they are expected to know when rotating off a screen will create a size mismatch. Jill Young is one of the shorter players on the team. Basically her and Macie need to stay on the perimeter, with the other team's 1 & 2.

This means that, unless the other team's PG is setting the screen (with Macie on the floor), she'll have to move under or over the screen.

A major problem with Jill's game her freshman year, was that she'd go too far under the screen and come off her player, opening up a passing or driving lane.

The practice of having 3s (and 2s) that can defend 4s and 5s (and vice versa) makes SDSU's defense very effective. You are seldom able to create a mismatch against the Jacks through rotation. The reason why SDSU's 2s and 3s can defend 4s and 5s isn't talent so much as it is discipline.

In 2008/9, the Jacks defense was a thing of beauty, it was a sight to behold. And, not surprisingly, that was the year they were ranked, the year they nearly made it to the Sweet 16.

Now if you put someone with raw talent in a system that delicately balanced, someone who can play defense well intuitively, but has not been coached for the past 10 years, and you upset that balance.

A player with more talent than any of her teammates could, in this scenario, cause them to play worse, not better, because the strength of the team isn't the individual talent, it's the cohesion--which comes from every player knowing her assignment almost instinctively.

And that because these players have been playing in systems and under discipline for years. Players that already have the mental tools required to plug into a system.

[91jack]

Re: 2011 Recruits

The thing I noticed is that the 08-09 defense had Jen, Stacie and Maria. Those 3 played most of the post minutes and could cover for each other. At the beginning of the 09-10 season 2 of those 3 were going and they could rotate the same. The 3 guards would rotate and the 2 posts did. It got better as last year rolled along but it just wasn't the same. When our posts would "body up", they were too physical and got called for fouls. They did improve though.

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

The thing I noticed is that the 08-09 defense had Jen, Stacie and Maria. Those 3 played most of the post minutes and could cover for each other. At the beginning of the 09-10 season 2 of those 3 were going and they could rotate the same. The 3 guards would rotate and the 2 posts did. It got better as last year rolled along but it just wasn't the same. When our posts would "body up", they were too physical and got called for fouls. They did improve though.

Also, I think Jen and Stacie defended the perimeter much better by that stage in their careers.

I think it takes a while for post players to feel comfortable defending the perimeter.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2011 Recruits

Here's the thing: In D-1 you're basically playing against nothing but HS first and second team all-staters. You can't count on being able to do what you did against 95% of your opponents.

The question with Alwal isn't how good she is on defense, it's how good she would be in the Jacks defensive system which is heavily dependent on being flexible in handling assignments.

Here's an example:

The Jacks rarely go under or over screens, and they are expected to know when rotating off a screen will create a size mismatch. Jill Young is one of the shorter players on the team. Basically her and Macie need to stay on the perimeter, with the other team's 1 & 2.

This means that, unless the other team's PG is setting the screen (with Macie on the floor), she'll have to move under or over the screen.

A major problem with Jill's game her freshman year, was that she'd go too far under the screen and come off her player, opening up a passing or driving lane.

The practice of having 3s (and 2s) that can defend 4s and 5s (and vice versa) makes SDSU's defense very effective. You are seldom able to create a mismatch against the Jacks through rotation. The reason why SDSU's 2s and 3s can defend 4s and 5s isn't talent so much as it is discipline.

In 2008/9, the Jacks defense was a thing of beauty, it was a sight to behold. And, not surprisingly, that was the year they were ranked, the year they nearly made it to the Sweet 16.

Now if you put someone with raw talent in a system that delicately balanced, someone who can play defense well intuitively, but has not been coached for the past 10 years, and you upset that balance.

A player with more talent than any of her teammates could, in this scenario, cause them to play worse, not better, because the strength of the team isn't the individual talent, it's the cohesion--which comes from every player knowing her assignment almost instinctively.

And that because these players have been playing in systems and under discipline for years. Players that already have the mental tools required to plug into a system.

Again have you driven to Worthington to see Martha play. My guess you have not and so thus should not act like you know her game and whether she can play. As discussed, coaching staff had ample opportunity to see her play and decided to either not offer her or she wanted to challenge herself on a bigger stage. My intuition was we could have had her if we wanted her. we have a lot of players like Anne Marie Brown that are well rounded guard/forwards in the 6'0 range and suspect she will do very well. We have not had 6'3 to 6'4 player who can block shots and rebound like Martha.

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

We have not had 6'3 to 6'4 player who can block shots and rebound like Martha.

And that, not the perimeter defense, was behind the loss to Baylor?

Really?

Because I could've sworn the biggest problem the Jacks defense has had the last few years is stopping quick guards.

NOT blocking shots.

But whatevs, SDSU screwed up. You should be coach. Send Justin an email. Let him know that you think AJ just made a huge mistake by not signing up a project.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2011 Recruits

And that, not the perimeter defense, was behind the loss to Baylor?

Really?

Because I could've sworn the biggest problem the Jacks defense has had the last few years is stopping quick guards.

NOT blocking shots.

But whatevs, SDSU screwed up. You should be coach. Send Justin an email. Let him know that you think AJ just made a huge mistake by not signing up a project.

Have you seen either of them play? Just read slow and answer the question? A "project" she just signed with Mississippi State in the SEC!

[goon]

Re: 2011 Recruits

I guess since she is no longer a potential recruit we can stop talking about her now and just the ones that we know are going to be here?

[bigticket1]

Re: 2011 Recruits

And that, not the perimeter defense, was behind the loss to Baylor?

Really?

Because I could've sworn the biggest problem the Jacks defense has had the last few years is stopping quick guards.

NOT blocking shots.

But whatevs, SDSU screwed up. You should be coach. Send Justin an email. Let him know that you think AJ just made a huge mistake by not signing up a project.

What's with all the hostility ? I think that both JACKGUY II and I stated we were fine with the coaching staff going another direction, but we had the opinion that a player might have brought a dimension we don't currently have - I thought expressing opinions was what is supposed to happen on boards like this.

[zooropa]

Re: 2011 Recruits

a player might have brought a dimension we don't currently have

It's not the 'missing dimension' argument, it's the 'keep SDSU from advancing past the second round' argument.

If anything was exposed by Maryland & Baylor (can't remember the player names), and by Kevi Luper last year, it's that SDSU's schemes aren't well adapted to stopping driving guards at the perimeter. This is unquestionably the achilles' heel of the program, and would not be fixed by a #5 that can block.

AJ, as a coach, has 'grown up' playing and beating programs that primarily pass to the inside, and his defensive schemes reflect that.

I am pleased that he's apparently adapting new schemes for this season, undoubtedly to stop dribble penetration.

That's where I'm at on the deficiencies of the Jacks. They are deficiencies of form, not of talent.

The hostility comes from someone who watched every second of the Baylor game and saw the Jacks beaten time and again off the perimeter. I strongly object to the notion that the best solution to that problem is to get a center that can block shots.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: 2011 Recruits

Well, actually AJ said after the Oklahoma game that the difference between Macie and OU point guard was that when Macie went past her defender she had to deal with their big girls in the middle.