NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

[Jacks-02]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I don't think having Nagy stay has anything to do with accepting mediocrity, it has more to do with accepting reality. We are entering our 3RD season of being eligible for the tournament. In the our first three years in the Summit League we have finished 10th, 7th, and now 4th. No matter how pessimistic you are, that is progress.

If you look at the established programs with long tenured head coaches in the league (IUPUI, Oakland, Oral Roberts) you can see its an accomplishment just to finish in the top 4 as Hunter has done it in just 7 of 12 seasons and Kampe in 5 of 13 seasons. Even Sutton, who coaches for the most successful team in the league has just 3 NCAA appearances in 11 seasons as head coach.

IUPUI - Ron Hunter
Seasons in League - 12
Top 4 Regular Season Summit Finishes - 7
NCAA Appearances - 1 (2003)

Oakland - Greg Kampe
Seasons in League - 13
Top 4 Regular Season Summit Finishes - 5
NCAA Appearances - 2 (2005, 2010)

Oral Roberts - Scott Sutton
Seasons in League - 11
Top 4 Regular Season Summit Finishes - 10
NCAA Appearances - 3 (2006, 2007, 2008)

Nagy has overcome alot of bad luck and a few recruiting mistakes and has this team competing in the top half of the league in just our second year of NCAA eligibility. We finished #4 in the conference this year despite having no inside depth with Anthony Davis' career ending injury and also losing valuable depth early in the year when Chad White went down. We have two excellent recruits coming in with the Iowa boys and have Chad White and Brayden Carlson coming back as red-shirt freshman.

We are ok.

[rational thought]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Please keep in mind that a majority of the anti-Nagy people that are suddenly posting on here weren't around when we saw the progress the team made this year. These lurkers were probably waiting (and most likely hoping) for the Jacks men to fail so that they can push their agenda.

I really don't put alot of stock in their arguments. But, they are amusing to read. (Think Glen Beck or Bill O'Reilly wearing Yellow and Blue.)

I'm with you...let's give out participation ribbons....i don't know why we need conference champions....somebody is going to have there feelings hurt....if enough of us believe this, we can change it......"YES WE CAN".....The program that was once the flagship of SDSU's athletic program has now gone how many years without a winning season....and you're surprised that there are grumblings.....

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

let's give out participation ribbons

(okay freethoughtpedia.whatever. enjoy the $.0005 you just saved by removing that hotlinked image)

[SoDakJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I'm with you...let's give out participation ribbons....i don't know why we need conference champions....somebody is going to have there feelings hurt....if enough of us believe this, we can change it......"YES WE CAN".....The program that was once the flagship of SDSU's athletic program has now gone how many years without a winning season....and you're surprised that there are grumblings.....

I am not surprised that folks are grumbling. I was merely pointing out that a good majority of them were just waiting in the weeds for something bad to happen so that they can stomp their feet and pound their chests that they "knew all along" that Nagy wasn't a good coach. Had they had the guile to try to prove their point during the season when the team was playing well, I may put more stock in their arguments.

Think of them as the Anti-Bandwagoners. They only jump on when the team fails.

I don't judge a teams success solely on their W-L record. I didn't miss a game all year (in person, on TV, at Frost) and I saw a team that improved. Do they still have room to get better? Of course. This team has been set back more than once since the move up do to things out of Nagy's control. When I see that the team isn't working hard or improving, then we can talk about a new coach.

[mitchell]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

What's that cliché from all those old cop shows?

"I guess you've got a pretty good view from behind your desk."

I'm not trying to be mean, or rude, so don't take this the wrong way, but, who are -you- to call into question how those kids played?

Did -you- play this past season? Were -you- at Nagy's practices? What, in short, makes you think you've got valid insight into what this team is capable of?

Again, not trying to start a fight here. Just trying to insert a bit of perspective. It's way too easy for fans to act as though we know what IS going on and what SHOULD be going on. Maybe we should all just take a step back and realize we don't know.

Didn't realize only players or coaches can analyze what is going on during a game. I was under the impression this was a fan board for fans, like -me- to give an opinion of how -I- saw things. I guess we could all just give everyone pats on the back and say "Great job on that losing season, don't worry about fixing anything because I'm looking forward to the next one"

As a fan, I watch alot of basketball.

In fact, I'm watching some college hoops right now and hope to eventually be able to watch SDSU play in mid March. But it's not going to happen if we can't consistently play mentally sharp basketball. It's not hard to see when a team is tuned in and focused and when they are aloof and careless. At times this season there was too much of the latter.

[zooropa]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Didn't realize only players or coaches can analyze what is going on during a game.

There's a big difference between observing something (e.g. "that was a bad pass!!") and asserting something (e.g. "this team could have won 5 more games if they had a better attitude").

One can be easily evaluated, the other hinges on arguments rational or irrational, supportable, or insupportable.

And if you are in the habit of thinking that a knack for observation makes you a good judge of how things could be improved, might I refer you to Matt Millen's career as a GM for an instructive lesson in the difference between observing things, and making projections and assertions about what you've observed.

[JackJD]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

...checking IP info to see if rational thought is Beck or O'Reilly....

[LakeJack]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Is it just me?

[rational thought]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

...checking IP info to see if rational thought is Beck or O'Reilly....

Nope, but like most....i've noticed there is a lot less change in my pocket...and maybe after sunday.....one heck of a lot less.........enough politics...this is sports....where people aren't so opinionated..

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

This thread needs to be nominated for Epically Ridiculous On So Many Levels Thread Of The Decade (Or Of The Millennium So Far) Award.

If we had such an award here, of course.

We're deep into the depressive phase of the bipolar SDSU men's basketball fan cycle, it appears.

Copious amounts of alcohol have been known to help the condition . . .

Repeated for comedic effect.

[bub94]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

Yote fan here so take my comments fwiw. I always enjoyed and respected Nagy teams during the NCC days. He knew how to recruit and coach then and I have no doubt he still does today. I understand that SDSU fans want a winner and that is typically measured by wins and losses. However, and this has been stated by many others before, if Nagy didn't have bad luck during the transition he would have had no luck at all. I know excuses excuses but not a single break went his way. A few senior star players left the program or got injured, neither because of Nagy. He had his first two JUCO game changers unfortunately dismissed from the team. A more recent JUCO difference maker was sidelined with a unique injury. However, with a program that was in NCAA purgatory, he was able to recruit some amazing players including Williams and Callahan. Pair those two with either of the JUCO's and maybe a less aggressive pre Summit league schedule and the records are more than likely different. I was happy with USD's year but it is what it is when you consider the strength of schedule. SDSU took a different approach on scheduling for various reasons and I am not saying one approach was better than the other. I know everyone wants instant gratification but I think you should give him some more time. Your future rosters look to be well stocked and success could be just around the corner.

Who would have thought we could expect rational thought from a coyote fan (just giving you some crap but props for a good post)? In all seriousness, did you not go into most of the games this year with the expectations SDSU would win each one? Could you say that 2-4 years ago? No.

[Jacks99]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

If the transition would have had only a 1 year bump versus a 3-4 year detour, then it would be a very different argument.

I need to see these fresh guys continue to filter in as long term losing takes a toll. A transition SDSU doesn't (arguably) have the luxury of high level recruits able to rebuild in one season and it is a process.

Now if UNC were to stumble even for one more year...

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I was referring to the "Scheduling Agreement/Fake Conference" we played in during transition. We played against some equally horrible teams but didn't fair as well as USD did this year.

I'm not sure how many times I should have to repeat that we were never in a "conference" until we joined the Summit League. We played in an arranged year-end tournament the second year of a bunch of independents. There was never a home-home conference arrangement. The Great West basketball conference (with no autobid) doesn't even come close to being a real conference at this point and I doubt USD will not hang a banner in the Dome for having won the Great West conference title in 2010. We took different paths...I'm fairly sure that Coach Nagy's approach (play the best to see where you stack up) in the transition was one he wouldn't have followed in hindsight, because of the toll all the losing in road games took on the team. USD went a different route. We will see how that measures up when they get in the Summit League in 2011. Until then, comparisons are not even close to apples and oranges, but to marshmellows and feather pillows...forget it.

[filbert]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I'm inclined to think that, with the team we have coming back and the recruits we have coming in, that a somewhat more aggressive scheduling strategy might not be such a bad idea.

In the bad old days, we simply didn't have the athletic ability to compete with the schedule Nagy wanted to schedule. We're getting a lot closer to that point now, and you get a lot more credit nationally (read: NCAA selection committee) with playing a more challenging OOC schedule than not.

And, if you don't play tough opponents, you can't beat them and build your resume.

At some point, Summit League schools will need to start aggressively scheduling non-conference opponents if we want to have any hope of getting more than one team into the tournament.

(Of course, all of the low/mid-major conference schools are saying the exact same thing, and the inventory of non-conference games vs. challenging opponents is limited. It's a seller's market . . .)

[Nidaros]

Re: NAGY must ... Stay (for awhile)

I'm not sure how many times I should have to repeat that we were never in a "conference" until we joined the Summit League. We played in an arranged year-end tournament the second year of a bunch of independents. There was never a home-home conference arrangement. The Great West basketball conference (with no autobid) doesn't even come close to being a real conference at this point and I doubt USD will not hang a banner in the Dome for having won the Great West conference title in 2010. We took different paths...I'm fairly sure that Coach Nagy's approach (play the best to see where you stack up) in the transition was one he wouldn't have followed in hindsight, because of the toll all the losing in road games took on the team. USD went a different route. We will see how that measures up when they get in the Summit League in 2011. Until then, comparisons are not even close to apples and oranges, but to marshmellows and feather pillows...forget it.

Your post has my full agreement. I might add that if not for the struggles that NDSU and SDSU went through in trying to put together a independant schedule, this Great West arrangement that UND and USD benefited from this year would not have been available, and USD's efforts to fill a schedule would have been more difficult. If I am not mistaken, the Summit and Douple's staff have help put this loose arrangement of independants together. I dont think the Summit has offered its help for free. There is something in it for the Summit as any future members will probably come from the new members to D1, and helping out with scheduling they do become acquainted with a number of people and that makes their job eaiser down the road, if and when a current member of the Summit leaves for another conference.