GDT: Mavs vs Jackrabbits 2pm Frost Arena SLN/Midco [NGWSD]

[LetsGoRabbits]

The fact that you have Borowicz anywhere near the POY award says all I need to know. I'm pretty sure even UND fans would call you crazy for suggesting that. That ship is sinking and she's a large part of the reason and if you can't see that then I really don't know what to tell you.

I'm just curious who the player of the year should be based off the following stat lines:

Player A: 16.2 ppg, 6.4 apg, 2.4 rpg
Player B: 17.5 ppg, 7.3 apg, 5.1 rpg

If you answer isn't player A (Myah Selland) then I'm sure there are a lot of posts from you about how Grace Larkins (player B) should have won the POY award last year. It doesn't appear there is an "honest case" for Player A to win based on the stats sheet, right?

first of all, I have not said what my personal vote would be. i was discussing what I believe the actual award voting will end up.
second, your response seems as I have offended you in some way. - "all you need to know," "if i cant see that, then i really dont know what to tell you," and apparently my use of the phrase honest case?

what exactly did I say that troubled you? is it because, I did not wholeheartedly agree with your endorsement of E Evans as the only competition for the award?

as I said, I have written it in this forum, VERY STRONGLY, I am a huge fan of Elle Evans!! I would choose her for my team before any non Jacks Summit League player. I definitely believe a good argument can be made that she is the second best player in the league! (not saying that is or is not what i think, but the argument could definitely be made)

but I simply do not believe the voting is going to go down that way. Larkins has clearly the better statistics and the resume, being first team last year and preseason. I do not understand your use of the Myah vs Larkins example, but if you are saying Evans gets enough voter juice to put her ahead of Larkins, because Evans team is likely going to finish in second, I do not agree. Larkins team is going to finish in 3rd or 4th most likely. I dont know to what place they could still drop if they finish horribly? I guess if they completely fall apart at the end then Larkins could lose votes. is that what you are counting on?

guessing that USD finishes between 3rd and 6th at worst. Last year Myah deservedly did get votes for more than just her stats!! she was the UNQUESTIONED leader of the UNQUESTIONED best team. Larkins team was picked to finish 2nd and had what was considered a disappointing season. again i am NOT SURE why you brought this up? but if you are using it to make a case for Evans, her team finished second NOT first and she is NOT the unquestioned leader of that team! i feel like everyone realizes that she is the most talented player on the team, YES, but Hamling still gets plenty of recognition as the leader and statistically Evans and Hamling are basically tied in points, rebounds, and assists

I am not saying that Hamling will get more POY votes than Evans, but you should not be completely shocked if she does. being a senior often counts for something in post season award voting, plus I am pretty sure she was first team last year

another point-
WHY are you so offended that i mention Borowicz? I understand they are having a poor / disappointing season. I would be interested what information you have that says she is getting the blame. I do not claim to follow UND sports closely enough to have any inside scoop on how they are viewing the events of this season, so if you have more information to share, that would be interesting.

that said, I am NOT saying where I believe Borowicz will finish in the voting, but she definitely will get votes and it will not be any surprise at all if she finishes third. if she finishes ahead of either Brooklyn or Larkins that would be enough to basically invalidate the entire vote
UND is having a bad year- no question
Borowicz turnover number is TERRIBLE!! almost 5 a game is bad for anyone, even worse for a player voted preseason POY

but she was the preseason POY. she is a senior. i am 99% sure she has led the league in scoring the last two years. if she did not lead 2 years ago she was close. pretty sure she is multi time first team all summit already, otherwise first team last year and on one of the teams the year before

for some voters all that would be enough to give her the award, before they even give much consideration to what happened this year.
what happened this year?
well she is leading the league in scoring- nearly 3 points more per game than any other player in the league (no matter how you slice it 3 points more per game than anyone has some juice)
she is 11th in the league in rebounds, over 5.5 a game
she is 5th in assists

nobody else in the league except B Meyers and G larkins has a better collection of points, boards, assist stats. it is not really close.

you compared Myah and Larkins, again WHY? what case were you making?

Myah and Larkins were about a point apart in points and boards with each leading in one stat. Larkins had much better assist numbers. I already explained why Myah was the no doubt POY

Borowicz stats do not compete with Brooklyn and Larkins, but

compared to Evans
she scores FOUR and a half more points per game (not one more point like in your example)
she is at least 3 inches shorter and averages about a half rebound more
she averages about 1.5 assists more

Evans averaging 1 block per game and having less TOs and being at best co leader of the second place team (and no surprise second. they were picked second and will probably end up exactly where they were supposed to) does not overcome a VERY significant statistical deficit. at the same time i can ONLY experss my own perspective and beliefs!!! maybe the vote will prove me an idiot? i have been proven wrong before, but I do not believe Evans will finish ahead of Borowicz in the POY voting. if i am wrong, I still enjoy the discussion. the discussion and debate, for me, is one of the MOST fun things about sports

compared to Paige
nearly SIX more points per game
rebounds over 4 more per game
assists Paige has exactly one more assist (total assists not average per game) so lets call it a tie

TOs Paige's number is bad. over 3 a game for someone considered possibly / probably the best pure PG in the league that is a bad number. we always say that she dribbles out of all trouble, but she is getting into too much trouble somewhere

Borowicz number makes Paiges number look good, enough said

like i said, I believe these two will be considered pretty close in POY votes

one other thing that nobody has said about this, ORU has several players who do at the very least deserve to be discussed. I am not sure if any of them will get enough votes to be a real factor. I also wonder if any of them will be on first team all summit? i would guess one of them will have to be, but that will be an interesting debate!! they have a different leader in points, rebounds, and assists. AND the rebound leader I think is only the 4th best scorer on the team, the points leader is not even in second in any other category

anyway I think they deserve some recognition, but it is hard to guess where they will be looked at in the POY discussion

i am still not sure I made any correct guesses about your inclusion of the Myah vs Larkins example, but I guess at the very least there will be a little bit to talk about, and as i made some reference there are still two weeks remaining. some teams or players could have either GREAT or TERRIBLE finishes to the season and make a meaningful change in some of this discussion

[OldHare]

Something I always reflect on when Morrison was POY during ORU's last year prior to joining Southland Conference. I was rooting for Nate Wolters. Nate did get his due when he was MVP of SLT pushing SDSU to champion. The following year, Nate was the POY & he repeated MVP of the SLT. It is my hope that Brooke is MVP of the SLT and I am rooting for her to be named POY. The bigger cog in a successful team is greater than someone who carries the load for a less successful team[IMHO]

[GoJacks2011]

Not our best night but it's another W.

Maybe a close game like this was a good wake up call. Lots of fouls and missed shots by us. Denver was making everything. Had to be a dead environment. Pic I saw looked like maybe 100 fans there.

[AZjack]

Refs left a little to be desired on both sides. Some of the calls against Nelson were just bad. SL refs just don't seem to get any better, pretty crap most of the time.