Nagy is "back"

[rockchalk]

Re: Nagy is "back"

There is no doubt in my mind we should beat ipfw by 10 points. In that atmosphere and the home court advantage we have there is no doubt we will be moving on, if not it will be a huge dissapointment.

I don't think success is based on beating rivals I think success is determind by wins and losses. Unfortunately losing to the bison 8 games in a row doesn't help either cause. As a team it should always be a goal to whoop your rivals and its become a little frustrating. Maybe its cause I miss pounding on the Yotes everytime they came to Frost.

As far as coaching debate, I don't have to put it to rest. Its our best year in the last 5 years and were still below .500. I don't think its ridiculous at all to have a debate.

As for next year I don't think there is a chance we finish 3rd. Everyteam goes through a lot of changes each year however these 2 have been our glue for the last 4 years (although the last 4 haven't been great). We will lose games against teams we have a shot to beat on the road and we will beat teams we should beat at home. Clint and Wolters will be good and Dykstra should be a good fill in but you could really tell that Kai and Callahan knew how to lead. I really think our season next year will be similar to NDSU this year, except they lost some pro players from last year.

[zooropa]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Ninety percent of this game is half mental.

Garrett & Kai went two years without winning a road conference game.

While I will miss watching those guys play, and the team will miss their production, no one will miss the effects that four years of losing have left on their approach to the game.

---

Talking about firing Nagy is fine. Dreaming of the coach who will cure all of the team's ills in one season while rescuing starving kittens from a burning building is fine.

If you like to waste time.

Barring some major and unforeseen scandal, Nagy is here until he decides he wants to leave.

[jackmd]

Re: Nagy is "back"

There is no doubt in my mind we should beat ipfw by 10 points. In that atmosphere and the home court advantage we have there is no doubt we will be moving on, if not it will be a huge dissapointment.

I don't think success is based on beating rivals I think success is determind by wins and losses. Unfortunately losing to the bison 8 games in a row doesn't help either cause. As a team it should always be a goal to whoop your rivals and its become a little frustrating. Maybe its cause I miss pounding on the Yotes everytime they came to Frost.

As far as coaching debate, I don't have to put it to rest. Its our best year in the last 5 years and were still below .500. I don't think its ridiculous at all to have a debate.

As for next year I don't think there is a chance we finish 3rd. Everyteam goes through a lot of changes each year however these 2 have been our glue for the last 4 years (although the last 4 haven't been great). We will lose games against teams we have a shot to beat on the road and we will beat teams we should beat at home. Clint and Wolters will be good and Dykstra should be a good fill in but you could really tell that Kai and Callahan knew how to lead. I really think our season next year will be similar to NDSU this year, except they lost some pro players from last year.

Alright, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with the first few posts. Now I see you just don't get it. I was afraid of that.

You don't make the transition to DI and immediately compete for the conference title. Hell, we are lucky to even be in a conference at all. You don't go out and attract the best players in the nation when you are a transitional team. In case you aren't aware, we just completed that transition.

To stand where we do right now is more than acceptable, it should be recognized as a great accomplishment. Coach Nagy and his staff just signed several recruits that are highly recognized by national sources.

As for the comments about Kai and Garrett knowing how to lead, did you watch these guys when they were freshman? Wolters is much more composed and prepared to lead than either of them were at that point.

I don't have a lot of time right now to expound but let me finish with a bit of advice. If you need to see SDSU in the NCAA men's basketball tourney to allay some concern you have about leaving DII behind or you think finishing at .500 and in the top have of the conference is unacceptable then you aren't working with a full deck. Transition to DI is about survival. Now is the time we can start to build.

[propar80]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Pretty sure RockChalk needs to be reminded of the W-L records of "transitioning" teams for the past 20 years. I know someone posted it back a couple of months ago, when of course there were two or three posters calling for Nagy's head at that time.

The NDSU team from last year should be considered an "outlyer". As should SDSU's women's team from last year. Old NCC lovers will even try and point out USD's record this year in transition to make a point...but come on...have you seen the RPI's of the teams they've played this year?(the Great West has the worst RPI in the nation even behind "Independents") Talk about "smoke and mirrors".

Maybe if someday Nagy brings SDSU basketball to the level of a KU, people will not bring up a coaching change anymore and consider the move to D-1 a success, but then again, I doubt it.

I'm fairly certain that most Jackrabbit fans would've been happy with a 4th place finish in the Summit and around a .500 record when the season started. Don't get me wrong, I was just as pissed off leaving Frost the night of the NDSU loss also, and will probably be spitting nails if they lay an egg against IPFW Sunday night. But NDSU had just as much to play for in that rivalry game as SDSU did and just happened to clank a FT between the rim and the basket for a chance to win and they did it. IPFW is the 5 seeed, and SDSU is the 4 seed...my math tells me that should be the most even game of the first round.
My point with all of this is, SDSU isn't quite there yet and in D-1, may not be for MANY years, at least to the standards of die-hard NCC fans. This isn't D-2/NCC ball and if you don't agree, you've got blinder's on and probably should start attending Augie and Northern games.

Let's get out to SF and make sure the one thing we as fans can control isn't missing Sunday night, and that is a lot of loud, standing/jumping blue and yellow in the SF Arena, just like last year when an even younger Jackrabbit team sent ORU packing!!!

Go Jacks!!

[LakeJack]

Re: Nagy is "back"

I really think our season next year will be similar to NDSU this year, except they lost some pro players from last year.

lakesbison is that you? By the way anyone want to trade places with NDSU heading into this weekend's tourney? Not me. I'll take the #4 seed and a 10-8 Summit record over a #6 seed and an 8-10 Summit record. NDSU needed OT to beat Western Ill. or they would have a #7 seed and a 7-11 record.

Pomeroy has us a a 2 pt favorite vs. IPFW Sunday. NDSU is a 9 point dog to ORU.

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=South%20Dakota%20St.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Alright, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with the first few posts. Now I see you just don't get it. I was afraid of that.

You don't make the transition to DI and immediately compete for the conference title. Hell, we are lucky to even be in a conference at all. You don't go out and attract the best players in the nation when you are a transitional team. In case you aren't aware, we just completed that transition.

To stand where we do right now is more than acceptable, it should be recognized as a great accomplishment. Coach Nagy and his staff just signed several recruits that are highly recognized by national sources.

As for the comments about Kai and Garrett knowing how to lead, did you watch these guys when they were freshman? Wolters is much more composed and prepared to lead than either of them were at that point.

I don't have a lot of time right now to expound but let me finish with a bit of advice. If you need to see SDSU in the NCAA men's basketball tourney to allay some concern you have about leaving DII behind or you think finishing at .500 and in the top have of the conference is unacceptable then you aren't working with a full deck. Transition to DI is about survival. Now is the time we can start to build.

YEAH THAT!!!

Now rockchalk has two threads hijacked over this garbage. Some people get it and some people don't. Opinions are like exitholes, everyone has one. And no, I'm not calling anyone an exithole.

Time for some rockchalk pie if you ask me.

GB, GB, GJ!

SUPERBUNNY

[LakeJack]

Re: Nagy is "back"

YEAH THAT!!!

Now rockchalk has two threads hijacked over this garbage. Some people get it and some people don't. Opinions are like exitholes, everyone has one. And no, I'm not calling anyone an exithole.

Time for some rockchalk pie if you ask me.

GB, GB, GJ!

SUPERBUNNY

Ya, what he said. Hey don't the rockchalk jayhawks play Kansas State tonight?

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Nagy is "back"

SDSU basketball is doing OK, and should just get better.

SDSU along with NDSU are in only 2nd year of eligibility at D-I.

How long has SUU been D-I? Have they won the Mid-Con/Summit?

How about the only remaining ORIGINAL Mid-Con member, WIU? When did they last win the title?

UMKC, likewise.

IPFW, same boat of time as SDSU, and overall, less success than Jacks (maybe a touch more in MBB, but about the only sport played by both teams).

IUPUI, Oakland and especially ORU are the remaining members that have had some success in the Summit/Mid-Con.

SDSU/NDSU/USD/UND will quickly be as dominating of this conference as they were the NCC. If you look at the NCC records, only UNI was ahead of these 4 Dakota schools. No other schools came close to achieving the successes that these schools did. Give it 10 years in the Summit, and we'll be saying the same thing again.

WIU Volleyball Coach said it best the first year when SDSU won the Summit Tourney and faced Nebraska. "We're the best of the Mid-con, unfortunately, this is now the Summit (WIU ended up with #4 seed, with newcomers SDSU, NDSU & IPFW grabbing 1-2-3 spots).

[filbert]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Anybody who thinks that this year's team will be the best one of the next three years simply hasn't been paying attention.

Here's why (warning--really long):

Silly me, I went in search of facts, so I opened up a spreadsheet and played for a while. (This year's stats as of March 3, 2010.)

SDSU's graduating seniors this year account for about 29% of minutes played, 30% of rebounds, and 33% of points scored.
(Garrett Callahan, Williams, Engen)
SDSU's junior class this year accounts for 44% of minutes, 41% of rebounds, 41% of points.
(Sargent, Cordova, Moss, Palarca, Tivis)
SDSU's sophomore class accounts for 9% of minutes, 12% of rebounds, 6% of points.
(Grif. Callahan, Pederson, Cassaday)
SDSU's freshman class accounts for 18% of minutes, 17% of rebounds, 20% of points.
(Wolters, Fiegen, White (Med RS), Rader, Carlson (RS))

For comparison, some other teams:

NDSU's championship team last year--their seniors were 59% of minutes, 59% of rebounds, and 72% of points scored.
(Woodside, Winkelman, Nelson, Moormann, Riley)

Let's talk IUPUI, who had about the same kind of year last year as SDSU did this year (more or less) . . .
IUPUI finished 9-9 in the conference and 16-14 overall (somewhat similar to SDSU this year):

IUPUI's seniors last year accounted for 15% of minutes, 5% of rebounds, 12% of points.
(Only one senior--Gary Patterson)

This year, IUPUI's seniors account for 43% of minutes, 54% of rebounds, 45% of points.
(Glenn, Avery, Pettiford)
IUPUI's junior class last year accounted for 38% of minutes, 57% of rebounds, 42% of points.
(Glenn, Avery, Pettiford)

This year, IUPUI's juniors account for 33% of minutes, 23% of rebounds, 24% of points.
(Nobles, Moss, Ashworth, Williams)
As sophomores last year, this class accounted for 31% of minutes, 22% of rebounds, 25% of points.
(Nobles, Moss, Ashworth, Williams)

This year, IUPUI's sophomores account for 18% of minutes, 19% of rebounds, 27% of points.
(Young, Siakam)
As freshmen last year, this class accounted for 16% of minutes, 16% of rebounds, 20% of points.
(Young, Stone, Morris, Siakam, Smeathers, McDaniel)

This year, IUPUI's freshmen account for 6% of minutes, 3% of rebounds, 5% of points.
(Rice, Esposito, Litteral, Mazanowski)


Let's talk IPFW, who also has tracked with SDSU, maybe a bit better last year, a bit worse this year:
Last year's IPFW team finished 8-8 in the Summit and 13-17 overall, with their seniors accounting for 22% of minutes, 26% of rebounds, and 28% of points scored.

Last year's IPFW seniors accounted for about 22% of minutes, 26% of rebounds, 28% of points.

This year's IPFW seniors account for about 27% of minutes, 36% of rebounds, and 33% of points.
(Yearby, Daniels)
The IPFW junior class last year accounted for 28% of minutes, 37% of rebounds, and 29% of points.
(Yearby, Daniels, A. Richie)

This year's IPFW juniors account for 46% of minutes, 36% of rebounds, 39% of points.
Botts, Plackemeier,Snead, Kovalov)
As sophomores last year, they accounted for 32% of minutes, 21% of rebounds, 29% of points.
(Botts, Plackemeyer, Mocevic, Br. Richie)

This year's IPFW sophomores account for 21% of minutes, 22% of rebounds, 22% of points.
(Mixon, McCorkle, Peckinpaugh, Beach)
As freshmen last year, they accounted for 18% of minutes, 16% of rebounds, 13% of points.
(Mixon, McCorkle, Peckinpaugh, Bembrey, Beach)

This year, IPFW's freshmen accounted for about 7% of minutes, 7% of rebounds, 6% of points.

What does all this mean?
It's a pretty darn small sample size to draw any definitive conclusions, but . . .
SDSU depends more this year on its junior class than it does on the senior class. SDSU's junior and freshmen classes this year appear to be relatively strong, but the sophomore class is very, very weak. Our senior class this year is (by the percentages here, anyway) not one that we can reasonably expect to ride to a regular season championship--not like NDSU's was last year or IUPUI's is this year, anyway. (I know Oakland won this year, but IUPUI's year last year was more similar to this year for SDSU than Oakland's was.) If Engen had been able to grab more effective minutes in the post, it might have pushed our senior class towards that level, but things playing out the way they did, and especially with Garrett C's back problems towards the end of the year, the production from the entire senior class was not enough to get SDSU over the finish line this year.

Our senior class next year--Sargent, Moss, Cordova, Palarca, and Tivis--are more or less what they're going to be. They may be able to refine and improve on certain areas of their play, but we pretty much know what kind of players they're going to be next year. If this group can increase their minutes, rebounds, and scoring percentages over this year's numbers, especially given the young guns coming in behind them, then we could very well improve over this year's record.

Our junior class next year--Grif. Callahan, Cassaday, and Pederson--well, the younger Callahan's game should be somewhat better next year, as he has a pretty well defined role. Cassaday--I think a lot of how this team will do next year may depend on if he can emerge as a more potent offensive and defensive player. If Cassaday is playing a lot next season, and playing effectively, the Jacks just might be a pretty good team. If he's not, then we're going to be depending a lot on some awfully young players to get things done. This team won't be able to depend only on Sargent to score--at least one and preferably more than one other consistent scorers will need to emerge to duplicate or better this year's record.

Next year's sophomores--Wolters, Fiegen, Rader: Wolters will get a lot of minutes at the point and will quite likely be starting point guard all season long. Fiegen, if he puts on some bulk and works on mechanics and other -- you know -- basketball stuff -- should be able to increase his minutes too. He'd better, because I'm not sure if we can win with Cordova as the starting center, and Dykstra and Heemstra will be coming in behind him looking for playing time. I don't have much of a read on Rader, so I'll just let my Cassaday comments stand for him as well. If he's giving the team 5-10 or more good minutes a game, then we're going to be all right. The hoary old saw is that players improve the most between the freshman and sophomore years. You don't really see that too well from my small sample size, but it's something to look forward to.

The incoming freshmen class, including the redshirts--White, Carlson, Heemstra, Dykstra: The real key to how 2010-11 will go may be if two or more of these guys have freshman years as good as Wolters has been this year. If we get that level of production from more than one of the freshmen, we'll have a chance to be pretty good, especially by the end of the year. White was performing passably well as a true freshman before his hand injury. The unplanned redshirt year after his taste of college competition should mean he'll be better than your average redshirt freshman. We all know the expectations swirling around Dykstra, and Heemstra's length will not hurt, either.

(Sorry for any inadvertent or vertent name mis-spellings here . . . )

[Jacks99]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Ninety percent of this game is half mental.

Garrett & Kai went two years without winning a road conference game.

While I will miss watching those guys play, and the team will miss their production, no one will miss the effects that four years of losing have left on their approach to the game.

---

I agree 100% these new kids coming in won't settle for .500 and they will have a lot more talent and depth than Kai and Garrett did to start with. It will continue to get better.

[bballfan54]

Re: Nagy is "back"

I agree 100% these new kids coming in won't settle for .500 and they will have a lot more talent and depth than Kai and Garrett did to start with. It will continue to get better.

AMEN
thankyou for that...

[Jacks99]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Hope this last year has made it all worth it for them. Not to mention that they helped build the future.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Filbert,
I am going to try and summarize:
We had better overall balance this year than some teams in the past. Next years team will be better if the returning players progress as expected and the incoming freshman that don't redshirt contribute as the coaches expect they will.

[filbert]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Filbert,
I am going to try and summarize:
We had better overall balance this year than some teams in the past. Next years team will be better if the returning players progress as expected and the incoming freshman that don't redshirt contribute as the coaches expect they will.

I think my main point was that losing our seniors (and we hate to see them go) will hurt us less than it may hurt some other teams in the conference, because statistically the strength of this year's team is actually in the junior class, not the senior class (like you might think, looking at Kai and Garrett's careers).

AND our incoming freshmen (especially factoring in White coming off a medical redshirt to essentially a second freshman year) might be as good or better than anyone else in the league.

That adds up to a good trend. Plenty for the guys to work towards in the off-season.

It's entirely possible that they might take a step back next season but it seems to me more likely we'll see at least the same as we saw this year, and probably a somewhat better performance because of an overall somewhat deeper team. And if some of the newcomers really pan out, we will develop into a seriously tough out for anyone else in the league by tournament time 2011.

[zooropa]

Re: Nagy is "back"

Will there be a coaching debate? I have 2 right now that I know we would have a shot at getting that carry everything listed above.

Is one of them Kelvin Samson?

Dang. I HATE coming up with a witty (or smart aleck) comeback ten hours later.