Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornby)

[rcjacks]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Nagy might not have been the head coach when White played, but he was an assistant who was responsible for recruiting him. Nagy has been associated with our program for 19 or so years.

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

From my perspective other than lacking some size, the overall skill level is good. What I think we are lacking is some toughness from some of the players and this has been echoed by the staff. Dont be surprised to see 2-3 JC's sign in the spring. The staff feels we need to get mentally tougher.

[Statebasketballfan]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

From my perspective other than lacking some size, the overall skill level is good. What I think we are lacking is some toughness from some of the players and this has been echoed by the staff. Dont be surprised to see 2-3 JC's sign in the spring. The staff feels we need to get mentally tougher.

Hopefully those guys are in the 6'8"-6'10" range.

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

One would have to think that the talent level of the JC kids now willing to take a hard look at SDSU will be going up.  After all we will be able to offer them a shoot at a conference title their first year and a shot at the NCAA tourney their second and final year, not just a chance to play D-I ball.  Good hunting to our coaching staff, if they choose to go that route.

Go State!  

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

If indeed we lose another scholarship player by my calculations we will have 5 slots to fill in order to get to 13 scholarships. We have a good nucleous of young players and although we have not had much luck in the JC Ranks I would expect we will go that route again. As stated above we have a lot more to offer now than we did before including the most important thing (IMMEDIATE PLAYING TIME).

[FargoBison]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Give Miles some respect he is every bit as good a coach as Nagy is, I don't even know how you could say otherwise. The guy has won at every place he has been and it wasn't an easy task at any of those places either. I admire the optimism here and the way you guys stand behind your coach but there has been a lot more then just luck involved with what is going on at NDSU. Being the basketball fans you are in Brookings I would think you could figure that out but you may have to take of the blue and yellow glasses to do so. A good basketball team is easy to see when you take them off. I have always been a fan of womens hoops at NDSU but you don't see me running around saying your womens team is only better then NDSU because of luck and that Ruley could coaches circles around Johnston do you? I fully realize that SDSU has the better team and Johnston is a great coach and is every bit as good as Ruley.

Also with the way NDSU is building their program in DI I don't see SDSU becoming dominant like they once were, especially if NDSU builds a 40 million dollar arena. I am not saying NDSU is going to dominate or anything just that NDSU's basketball program is a bit different then what it was when we were in DII.

[FargoBison]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I'll be more convinced about NDSU building a solid program if they continue to have success with Andre Smith gone next season.  Any way you look at it, getting him into NDSU was luck, since he was already committed to another D-I school (In the A-10 I think).  The guy is a rebounding/blocking machine, allowing NDSU to sit in a zone on defense, which has lead to your upsets over Wisconsin and Marquette (Both horrible outside shooting teams).  On offense he is opening up your perimeter to Woodside and Nelson.  Other than him, I don't know how you can argue anybody on NDSU's roster is better talent wise (obviously they have more experience) than SDSU's equivalent.

Look at your game's so far.... when Smith can assert himself (Marquette) the Bison win.  When the Bison encounter a bigger center that Smith can't handle (Minnesota) the Bison lose.  If these victories were coming from NDSU's unbelievable guard play, there is no reason that the Bison should have lost to Minnesota, where they probably have guard play.  Marquette is obviously a more talented team than the gophers, but NDSU simply matches up better with Marquette because of their ability to play in a zone with Smith in the middle.  If NDSU was truly as talented as these teams, Miles would be playing man to man, but he doesn't, because your guards would get burned badly.  Thats why you lost to Kansas State tonight... you usually won't win when playing a good three point shooting team in a zone.  I'm not convinced of NDSU's ability to protect the middle of that zone with your other post players that I've seen.  It may be a pretty obvious statement, but Post Play is the most important part of college basketball.

Like I said, if Miles continues winning with the loss of Smith, I'll be sold on NDSU, but if Miles agrees with me about Andre being a huge part of why you're winning, I think he'll be taking another position that comes to him before next season too.  If you disagree with the assessment, I would like to hear why?  I'm not trying to trash Miles or the Bison here, but NDSU fans that come on here and think that they are recruiting a different caliber of player than SDSU has been, or have 5 incredible players that outmatch SDSU at every position drive me crazy.  

Ben Woodside? I don't see a player like him running the point at SDSU and in my mind he is the heart and soul of the team. At the end of the game tonight he was the offense and at the end of the game against Wisconsin last year he was the offense. I know Smith is a great player and NDSU was lucky to get him but he is not the team nor the main reason why NDSU is winning. NDSU is winning because we are a very sound well coached team, both Bob Knight and Bob Huggins would tell you the same thing if you asked them. As to replacing Smith I guess we'll just have to wait until next year and see how things play out, Miles is looking at a few big guys but I haven't heard much about them. As good player as Smith is he owes some of that greatness to Miles because he will leave NDSU a much better player then what he was coming in. Also, Miles will be around as long as the Gophers don't offer him a job. The guy likes Fargo and he likes his team, he has said numerous times that it would take an amazing offer to get him to leave and that probably means a job like Minnesota or better in the region.

I also never said NDSU was recruiting a different caliber of player, I don't even know how you got that out of what I said.  

[Haldersham]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I not tooting my horn for NDSU, but give credit where credit is due. The Bison pushed K-State to final play of the game at Fargo. I happen to be in the area and listened on the car radio. Andre Smith is 27 years old and was on the post game interview. He mentioned that two or three of his team mates played scared for a spell and that made some difference. Scott Miller the WDAY announcer thought Ben Woodside had been fouled on the final play and he asked Andre if he agreed, and he said that he thought the refs called it right and he would not have made that call. I kind of like this guy for his maturity, something we are missing at SDSU.

It takes courage to say that on the radio after the game, but he would be one who would notice it after nearly a season and a half. I think NDSU is doing very well. With or without Smith, I think the Bison have a good corp of people in Nelson, Woodside, Moorman and Winkleman. Next year without Smith, these four will be the leaders.. I dont think beating Marquette and Princeton are any kind of a fluke. Playing K State to the final horn must mean something. BTW Bison crowd was 6110, and a sellout according to WDAY.

With all the personnel turnover, SDSU is still starting to build a program. We are not even at the rebuilding stage. I think that is the difference right now between SDSU and NDSU. I think the difference will be more evident by the end of the season. It's like I said in the earlier post, I have no control over the program. The administration and the coaching staff do, so the ball is pretty much in their court. Meantime, I will continue enjoy life as it happens. I see no need to defend anyone. Not even Tim Miles or the Bison BB.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Give Miles some respect he is every bit as good a coach as Nagy is, I don't even know how you could say otherwise.

Of course he's a good coach. He's done a terrific job with NDSU. He has good players and was a bit smarter about scheduling early on than SDSU was.

I think the move to the Mid-Con (or whatever it'll be called) will really improve recruiting for both squads. I remain very confident that this SDSU team has some really good players. A couple of additions (as has been mentioned above) and some more experience for a young team will make all the difference. The second half of this season will see us playing a schedule that will allow some growth for these young players. With a conference schedule and regular weekend games, the fans will come back to see new rivals like Oral Roberts and UMKC. In many ways this year will mark a turning point for the program, and it's clear to me (from that first 10 minutes at Minnesota, for example) that we've got a solid team emerging, albeit slowly, from the ruins of last year.

Nagy knows basketball. He's got a good core group of players. I just wish he would cheer up.

Finally, regarding departures: I see Duke has lost two players this year. We're talking about young men aged 18-22. They all want to compete and figure out where they fit in. As I vaguely recall, it's not easy at that age to know what's right for you. You can't blame a kid like Hornby, who wasn't playing, for wanting to find a place to play. You can't blame a kid like Holdren, who grew up wanting to play for Illinois, for taking a shot at that. When most of these kids have left, it's been about them trying to find a place that fits them. To me it says more about being 18 than it does about our coaching staff or program.

[rcjacks]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Timmy Miles might not be coaching in the Mid-Con next year, but coaching about 300 miles east of Fargo in the Big Ten. The media in the Twin Cities is enamoured with Tim Miles.

With that, I do think the Mid-Con conference status of our Jacks will help "legitimize" SDSU in some players eyes. Guys from outside the Upper Midwest will be more reassured about becoming a Jack with conference play.

[Haldersham]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Timmy Miles might not be coaching in the Mid-Con next year, but coaching about 300 miles east of Fargo in the Big Ten.  The media in the Twin Cities is enamoured with Tim Miles.

With that, I do think the Mid-Con conference status of our Jacks will help "legitimize" SDSU in some players eyes.  Guys from outside the Upper Midwest will be more reassured about  becoming a Jack with conference play.

I caught on radio yesterday a discussion by Mike McFeeley and Jeff Kolpeck of the Fargo Forum. Neither of these two seem to feel that Miles was a choice for Minnesota. Also heard Sid Hartman today and he seems to think that only Bobby Knight another guy named Saunders established coach are the only two who could immediately have a chance to turn the Minnesota program around. As much as some of us think Sid is a blowhard gas bag, I do think he knows a ton of people and talks to a ton of people. Sid never mentioned Miles, and infact they ridiculed a Bison caller for blowing off about NDSU's recent success and how great Tim was doing. Sid said if NDSU was in the Big 10, they would go 0-16 in conference play.

So I dont see Miles going anyhwere.   This getting off topic, but I think Miles is going to be around to win in Frost several times coaching the Bison before he moves on. I dont think we will have football players to help us out this year when the Bison come to Frost.

I too hope we have more choices by being a member of Mid Cont. I think keeping our guys around for 2 or more years is probably the first step to building a program at SDSU. I too am getting very frustrated but I guess I need to be patient too.

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I feel bad for Coach. He has to find some guys who want to play some D and make sure they are on the court. Some obviuously arent interested in playing at both ends.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

SDSU started the D-1 transition three years ago very undermanned. The Jacks still are trying to crawl out of that hole. Considering the team's luck with freshmen recruits who sit on a scholarship for a year or two and then decide to leave (Cam Hornby), or are forced by circumstances to leave (Scott Gilbert), coaches might as well hit the juco circuit for a couple of experienced players. At least with a juco a redshirt year isn't wasted. The unexpected losses of Brandon and Horby this year give coaches a couple more scholarships to work with for next year. Dale Moss and Clint Sargeant are coming in as new recruits out of high school but could be redshirted. Ryan Hoogeveen is being redshirted this year and presumably will be on the roster next year. (Is he a schoarship player?) Still haven't heard if Robert Bilitz will be back at semester break. He's been sitting on a scholarship for a year and a half, I presume, and hasn't contributed yet. His size would be welcome right now. Cordova is scheduled to come aboard next year, too. If the Jacks can keep the talented underclassmen on the roster now and not have to start over again next year, we'll be in decent shape. As for this year, hopefully we're at the bottom of the hole, looking up.

[EQguy]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

We can't forget that the coaches did try the Juco route this year, just didn't work out due to some bad circumstances.

I still believe. Things are looking better now than they did last year with the football players filling in. Each year they get just a bit more promise. Hopefully, in two years this team will be poised to make some noise.

[BTownJack]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I caught on radio yesterday a discussion by Mike McFeeley and Jeff Kolpeck of the Fargo Forum. Neither of these two seem to feel that Miles was a choice for Minnesota. Also heard Sid Hartman today and he seems to think that only Bobby Knight another guy named Saunders established coach are the only two who could immediately have a chance to turn the Minnesota program around. As much as some of us think Sid is a blowhard gas bag, I do think he knows a ton of people and talks to a ton of people. Sid never mentioned Miles, and infact they ridiculed a Bison caller for blowing off about NDSU's recent success and how great Tim was doing. Sid said if NDSU was in the Big 10, they would go 0-16 in conference play.

I remember Sid Hartman predicting a blowout when the Gophers played NDSU in football.  We all know how that turned out.  

I'm a Jackrabbit fan at heart but NDSU has got it going right now on the basketball floor.  They have been much more competitive in their losses than our beloved Jackrabbits.  We on this board like to glorify how well we play in our losses, such as the first 10 min. of the Minnesota game.  I think using the same justifications of where a program sits when analyzing NDSU would be wise on our part.  Yes, we did beat them last year in Frost with 4 FB players on our roster but that was only one game.  Lets look at the bigger picture and give credit to NDSU basketball being step or two ahead of SDSU right now.  

Obviously our head-to-head mathups this year will paint a better picture for us all and hopefully I'm proven wrong after those two games.  

Best of luck to both programs and let's keep picking each other up when it is needed!