Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornby)

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I know many of you are new and so it may be hard for you to understand why some posters feel this topic has been discussed to death. What I would offer up as a suggestion for keeping this thread lively and meaningful is to move beyond the "we have a problem" phase and offer up solutions on how to fix it. What would you be doing differently if you were in charge of our beloved program? I think that would be interesting.

Go State!  

[rcjacks]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

One thing I don't buy for our lack of success is that this is a new transition to Division 1 - give it time. Look at what Timmy Miles is doing up at NDSU. He has had the same amount of time as have. Basketball is also a little different than football. The turn around time is not a long time. A coach can bring in two good players and it will do wonders. Look at Nagy's history with Chris White.

I like Coach Nagy, but maybe he isn't a Division 1 coach. He had success at DII, but is in what, his 4th year of Division 1? Dan Monson was a great Division 1 coach at the mid-major level, but wasn't a great Big Ten level Division 1 coach.

Before people start writing that I hate our Jacks and I need to stop this thread - listen to what I am saying. I am saying I am sick of our team playing a poor basketball. I am sick of transfers, which I have heard of another person leaving at the end of the year, and I miss days of a packed Frost Arena. I love our arena and loved going to games that were packed in there with the cow bells banging/ringing at full decibel level!!! If you start winning games, you will fill in the seats.

I say the admin. gives Nagy two more years to turn this program around or it is time to move on. What do people think? This is a discussion board and I am interested in your opinions? Is 6 years of a transition to Division 1 not enough time to build a respectable program?

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Good start, lets look at the Bison program since '04-'05 the first season of D-I transition NDSU has won 17 D-I games and lost 25.  Beyond that, in head to head match up with SDSU since '04-'05, SDSU leads the series 3-2 and last year Coach Nagy beat Coach Miles with 4 football players on his squad to keep Coach Miles winless at Frost Arena.

I don't want to take anything away from the Bison I think they are doing a fine job in their transition, and they have had a couple of Big upset wins but most of their wins (and losses) have been to the likes of the Mississippi Valley States, Eastern Michagans, and Wisconsin-Greenbays of the world.  

I know that losing isn't fun and we all want the big crowds to come back, but how are you going to do it.  What would you do differently given the circumstances that we were in?



Go State!  

[NightHawk78]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

While SDSU was mired in transition and without conference affiliation, Nagy had to seek out a lot of "high-risk" players that were not sought out by many D-I schools. Some recruits have turned out well (Cadwell), others have been serviceable (Casey, Frias), and some have not been what we needed (Hornby). Meanwhile, we have had some D-2 holdovers (Kleinjan and Loney) and some players that have not stayed for a wide array of reasons, many of which were beyond Nagy's control. We also need to remember that the cupboard was pretty bare when we started the move because we were quite senior-heavy our last season in D-2.

Any of our coaches could easily (and justifiably) have left SDSU once we announced our transtition to D-I, but not a single coach has left SDSU due to the transition. I think that we need to give Nagy the same courtesy that he gave us. Unless there is a major meltdown within the program, he should be given until 2009 (our first shot at the Big Dance) to see what type of program he can develop. If SDSU does poorly in conference play and is a non-factor in the Mid-Con tournament, then a coaching change should be seriously considered.

Getting into the Mid-Con has allowed SDSU to more effectively sell itself to recruits. This has already paid off in the number of commitments and verbals that SDSU has received. Making a hasty decision to change coaches would probably set back our program even further........

As for NDSU, 89 is right. They have done all right during the tranition and have pulled off a couple big upsets, but they are an average team who has been unable to win at Frost.

[rcjacks]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

You don't think NDSU has been more competitive in its losses to DI programs than our Jacks? NDSU hasn't won a crazy amount of D1 games, but they have been more competitive than our Jacks to go along with a few big upsets. Games against common opponents I bet NDUS fared better. I would take beating UW-GB as well.

It is a shame that Timmy Miles is at NDSU because he is a South Dakotan - Doland-Conde.

Of course the coaches would stay with us for the move to D1. Going D1 means bigger paychecks and a quasi-promotion for them.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I guess the biggest problem the program has had in my mind is retention of players. We have lost a lot of players for a variety of reasons.

The biggest thing Coach Nagy can do moving forward is to make the experience of playing at State as good as possible so our players will want to stay. This was easier to do when we were DII. The class of freshmen we have is a good one. If we can keep them here, we will be as competitive as early as the middle of next season.

Winning is going to be a struggle for a bit. Crowds are not as good as we would like. Those are two items making the experience less enjoyable. Putting in all the hard work physically, mentally, and emotionally is so much easier when you are winning a lot and playing in front of big home crowds.

I do have to commend Coach Nagy and his staff. It seems they have changed their coaching styles a little bit to fit the personalities of the players on the team. They have been doing some things away from the court to make it fun to be a part of the team. Last year, towards the end of the season, trips to the beach and bowling stick out in my mind as great team building activities.

I would like to see more high fives and words of encouragement. When the team is doing poorly, let them know it. When they are doing things right, let them know it, too. When someone hits a shot, tell them "nice shot." This goes for the leaders on the team as well as the coaches.

It is soooo frustrating to watch right now, but I am more optimistic this season than I was the last 3 years. This team has potential, and I am more excited about the next 3 years than disappointed in the past 3 years. For the players who have stuck it out and the players who will stick it out, they will be glad they stayed a Jackrabbits. Same goes for the fans.

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

You don't think NDSU has been more competitive in its losses to DI programs than our Jacks?  NDSU hasn't won a crazy amount of D1 games, but they have been more competitive than our Jacks to go along with a few big upsets.  Games against common opponents I bet NDUS fared better. I would take beating UW-GB as well.

It is a shame that Timmy Miles is at NDSU because he is a South Dakotan - Doland-Conde.  

Of course the coaches would stay with us for the move to D1.  Going D1 means bigger paychecks and a quasi-promotion for them.  

I will retort with the fact that since the move to D-I SDSU leads the head to head series with the Bison.

I continue to understand that you are dissatisfied, I really would like you to go beyond stating that over and over just in different ways.  Please offer up alternatives that you feel would make us more successful, I would enjoy discussing that, otherwise I must conclude we are in fact beating a dead horse.

Don't get me wrong you are more then welcome to continue to express your dissatisfaction with the current state of our Men's Basketball Program in whatever form you choose on the board, I just won't engage you as I think we all know that our program is not where we want it to be.

It seems to me that some fans choose to be patient while other choose not to be and are ready for some action and I think that is fine. Just tell us what action you would like to see.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that doesn’t make them bad Jackrabbit fans or anything.  For me I will choose to let Coach Nagy do his work because I have a ton of faith in the winningest coach in SDSU history and can not think of a replacement that would be doing a better job.  I am pretty sure Coach K isn't leaving Duke to take our Head Coaching job.  

Go State!  

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I guess the biggest problem the program has had in my mind is retention of players.  We have lost a lot of players for a variety of reasons.

The biggest thing Coach Nagy can do moving forward is to make the experience of playing at State as good as possible so our players will want to stay.  This was easier to do when we were DII.  The class of freshmen we have is a good one.  If we can keep them here, we will be as competitive as early as the middle of next season.  

Winning is going to be a struggle for a bit.  Crowds are not as good as we would like.  Those are two items making the experience less enjoyable.  Putting in all the hard work physically, mentally, and emotionally is so much easier when you are winning a lot and playing in front of big home crowds.

I do have to commend Coach Nagy and his staff.  It seems they have changed their coaching styles a little bit to fit the personalities of the players on the team.  They have been doing some things away from the court to make it fun to be a part of the team.  Last year, towards the end of the season, trips to the beach and bowling stick out in my mind as great team building activities.  

I would like to see more high fives and words of encouragement.  When the team is doing poorly, let them know it.  When they are doing things right, let them know it, too.  When someone hits a shot, tell them "nice shot."  This goes for the leaders on the team as well as the coaches.

It is soooo frustrating to watch right now, but I am more optimistic this season than I was the last 3 years.  This team has potential, and I am more excited about the next 3 years than disappointed in the past 3 years.  For the players who have stuck it out and the players who will stick it out, they will be glad they stayed a Jackrabbits.  Same goes for the fans.

SF,

You and I have gone round and round on this subject, but I must say thank you for offering up ideas.  While I am not sure that a kinder, gentler, and more fun Coach Nagy would have kept all or even most the players around that choose to move on, I certainly think it benefits a young team that is trying to gel.  Coach mentioned in the post game that the night before the University of Denver game that the team went and saw the Nuggets play.  It sounded like a good move.  I do agree that it makes sense to coach a young team differently then one would a team full of veteran players.  

I too am more optimistic about this team then the two squads that preceded it.  I do in fact think that things are getting better and that we will be in good shape in ’08-’09 when we are eligible for the Big Dance.

Thanks again for giving us something new to discuss.

Go State!  

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I think Coach Nagy is OK unless we start losing this years freshmen. If that happens then I might start to wonder.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I will offer a news flash for all of the naysayers: We are a D-1 independent who is not eligible for the postseason. We are going to lose some more players than typical programs. I will make a few points that the solutions to our problems have been addressed and we just haven't seen the results. We will.

1. The Mid-Con starts next year. The chance at the NCAA Tournament starts the following year. There is light at the end of the tunnel and we can see it. Just think a year ago there was no light at the end of the tunnel. The conference situation is bigger than I can describe with words. It will be the cure to 99% of our problems: scheduling, attendance, recruiting, transfers.

2. We have a good nucleus of young talent. Three budding stars: Cadwell, Callahan, Williams. Two good uperclass leaders: Loney and Casey. Three strong freshman role players: Yackley, Bassett, Engen. I don't care who transefers, if we keep these 8 and add a little more size and depth we will be fine. Experience will help also.

3. Look at the remainder of the schedule. After this road trip it softens up significantly. This team will win at least 15 games this year.

4. Tim Miles will go to 0-6 in Frost Arena on February 3. Nagy is a better coach. No question in my mind. I think the Bison have had their share of lady luck and we have had none. Besides two big wins the Bison have been quite inconsistent.

5. Rather than bitching about how bad our program is get your ass to Frost Arena and cheer on the Jacks.

Enough said by me.

[EQguy]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

3. Look at the remainder of the schedule. After this road trip it softens up significantly. This team will win at least 15 games this year.

That may be a bit too hopeful but who knows. If the players keep their chin up anything is possible.

5. Rather than bitching about how bad our program is get your ass to Frost Arena and cheer on the Jacks.

amen

[89rabbit]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

2. We have a good nucleus of young talent.  Three budding stars: Cadwell, Callahan, Williams.  Two good uperclass leaders: Loney and Casey.  Three strong freshman role players: Yackley, Bassett, Engen.  I don't care who transefers, if we keep these 8 and add a little more size and depth we will be fine.  Experience will help also.

Having seen them play a few times I agree 100%! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


Go State!

[1bunnies]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

One thing I don't buy for our lack of success is that this is a new transition to Division 1 - give it time.  Look at what Timmy Miles is doing up at NDSU.  He has had the same amount of time as have.  Basketball is also a little different than football.  The turn around time is not a long time.  A coach can bring in two good players and it will do wonders.  Look at Nagy's history with Chris White.

I like Coach Nagy, but maybe he isn't a Division 1 coach.  He had success at DII, but is in what, his 4th year of Division 1?  Dan Monson was a great Division 1 coach at the mid-major level, but wasn't a great Big Ten level Division 1 coach.

Before people start writing that I hate our Jacks and I need to stop this thread - listen to what I am saying.  I am saying I am sick of our team playing a poor basketball.  I am sick of transfers, which I have heard of another person leaving at the end of the year, and I miss days of a packed Frost Arena.  I love our arena and loved going to games that were packed in there with the cow bells banging/ringing at full decibel level!!!  If you start winning games, you will fill in the seats.

I say the admin. gives Nagy two more years to turn this program around or it is time to move on.  What do people think?  This is a discussion board and I am interested in your opinions? Is 6 years of a transition to Division 1 not enough time to build a respectable program?

Coach Nagy was not our head coach when Chris White played.

[1bunnies]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

I think Coach Nagy is OK unless we start losing this years freshmen.  If that happens then I might start to wonder.

I think we have some very good freshmen and redshirt freshmen. I do think it is unrealistic to expect 7 of them to be here four years. I've said it before, "If you bring in 5 players every year and all 5 play and contribute for 4 years, that is a great recruiting class. If 2-3 stay all 4 years it is a good class. Players come and go all the time. When the game is on the line, I want Scott Nagy as my coach."

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Basketball Personnel Discussion (was Cam Hornb

Trying not to repeat what has been said repeatedly by 89Rabbit and others, I still want to express my strong support for Scott Nagy. It is WAY to early to be knocking the coaching staff!!

Repeated facts: 1) We had five seniors on our final DII team. We had a TOP DI
prospect lost in the sad circumstances that hit Matt Jones.

Nagy has already said, several times, that he made a mistake scheduling too many big teams the first year (NDSU scheduled a large number of nothing teams -- go back and look at the schedules). Tim Miles is a good coach, but he is certainly no better than Scott Nagy. He did redshirt his top recruits the first year. We didn't because we needed them (since the cupboard was bare...especially with the transfer of Andy Moeller).

The heavy schedule (big losses, repeatedly and huge number of road games) beat down some of our players. Steve Holdren was a definite DI player and after we rehabbed him for the year and kept him on scholarship, he chose to leave.

We've taken some chances: Frias is one, Mario Brandon was another, Mohammed Berte another. Berte and Andre Gilbert let us down -- certainly no fault of the coach.

But I believe Scott and Troy Larson are good recruiters...excellent coaches (don't tell me that you can win three conference championships in a tough league in DII and all of a sudden you aren't good enough to be a DI coach...balderdash!!!)

EVERBODY who was knowledgeable about the move to DI knew it is a tough transition...including the coaches and the players as well as the fans.) For gosh sakes, say what you want about any subject, but give the benefit of the doubt to all the coaches that have had to make the transition until we can get stabilized in a conference and have a few years to build the program up. And I would remind RCJack that men's basketball is the hardest transition for any of our teams.

I'm not as confident as several posters in predicting that we will sweep NDSU this year, but I am confident that within the next two or three years we will be dominant again over them.