ORU at home

[Nidaros]

Re: ORU at home

Having had a chance to see all of our opponents with exception of Centenary, it clearly shows we do our best with what we got, but to dream ourselves into the big dance we have to find better talent overall in the future. Being new to D1, we have had to take whats out their and sometimes we have found talent passed over.I.E Callahan and Williams.

I am not saying that that Kai, Garrett and Clint are not talented enough, but its going to be a few years before, Nagy can go 10 deep like we did in the NCC. ORU and the Butler teams should be our models as far as future teams. Maybe our current roster will look like them 2 years from now. I truly hope so.

It takes at least 10 Kai William's to get to the big dance and move about .500 in wins and loses.

I never saw a three attempt by Garrett Callahan get swatted in the air as it left his hands but it happen in the ORU game. I thought we were playing a CBA team. THose ORU guys are very good and experienced. The over all talent in the Summit is very good. Its going to take some very smart recruiting down the road here in order for us to even compete let alone win.

Hopefully our young guys will step to a higher level next year, but seeing is believing. I am hoping they will come through and the new additions to next years roster will add some more depth. I for one have not given up on the program. A lot of people on this board told me that D1 would be the hardest for men's basketball. Guess what I now believe what you said.

[Just in the crowd]

Re: ORU at home

95% of the students I sat with believe we are still Division 2 and will be Division 2 for a long, long time. We don't have any Division 1 players.

[sdsu356]

Re: ORU at home

whats all the rumers about Nagy not being around next year? Does anybody know anything about that.

[BTownJack]

Re: ORU at home

Don't bother starting this discussion because whatever you are hearing is simply not true.

[propar80]

Re: ORU at home

Those are two interesting posts.

To "just in the crowd" - I'm assuming you are sitting with that section of students who don't even have enough pride to stand up during the school song that I witness EVERY home game? To me that's not even d-2, that's high-school level.

The Nagy rumor - not sure where you got that one. He'd leave on his own long b4 anyone decided it's time to "get rid of him".

It's easy to quit on people when things are tough....Loser's do that. Are you a "loser" "Just in the Crowd"?? Think about it.

Go Jacks!!

[Jacks-D1]

Re: ORU at home

Whether the Nagy rumor is true or not, just looking at the win-loss record over the last several years means serious questions have to be asked about whether or not a change in coaching needs to be made.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: ORU at home

Whether the Nagy rumor is true or not, just looking at the win-loss record over the last several years means serious questions have to be asked about whether or not a change in coaching needs to be made.

I believe SDSU made a committment to its coaches, who were willing to stay on and be positive about the change (instead of the mice jumping ship like an institution to our south), that they would be supported through that transition (and I have to believe that anybody who knows anything about the transition doesn't understand that men's basketball is the hardest transition of all). Unless a number of players flee the ship, I can't see that any questions need to be asked until the end of the next season.

I have a few more points I would like to make later on this thread, but have to leave it at that for now.

[BTownJack]

Re: ORU at home

I believe SDSU made a committment to its coaches, who were willing to stay on and be positive about the change (instead of the mice jumping ship like an institution to our south), that they would be supported through that transition. Unless a number of players flee the ship, I can't see that any questions need to be asked until the end of the next season.

It can't be said any better than this...rep points for you.

[filbert]

Re: ORU at home

And the rumor I've heard is that Nagy has two more years (after this one) to get the ship righted.

Rumors are usually worth what you paid for them, however.

I suspect that everybody involved in the program has a pretty good idea what they need to do in the off season to improve--coaches, players, everyone.

I'm looking forward to seeing the guys go out with a win vs. Centenary, and then looking forward to seeing a much improved team next year.

I agree with Jacks#1Fan that if we're staring at 20 losses again this time next year, then we need to take a hard, long, clear-eyed look at the men's basketball program.

I'm willing to let the Jacks work hard over the off-season, then come back next year and see what happens when Nagy can finally start a team on the court with more upper-classmen than freshmen and sophomores. Maybe we can figure out a way to get Nagy his third assistant coach, too.

We have seen some progress this year, I think, although that progress hasn't translated into wins.

[BTownJack]

Re: ORU at home

Here is Terry's article about the game.

SDSU men fail to shake shooting woes
Jackrabbits turn in poor performance against Summit League champion
By Terry Vandrovec
tvandrovec@argusleader.com
PUBLISHED: February 29, 2008

BROOKINGS - Thursday was proof that things can indeed get worse.

South Dakota State followed up its poorest shooting performance of the season by going 3 of 29 from the field in the first half against Oral Roberts at Frost Arena. The scoreboard read 67-52, but the game between the last-place team in the Summit League and the outright champion wasn't nearly that close

Just how incredibly inept were the Jackrabbits over the first 20 minutes? Well, Scott Sutton has been at Oral Roberts for nine years, brother, Sean, is the head coach at Oklahoma State and dad, Eddie, has won more than 800 career games, and he couldn't recall witnessing anything like it.
"And we got great shots," SDSU coach Scott Nagy said. "Just got to put the ball in the basket."

The Jackrabbits (8-20, 3-14) were scoreless until freshmen Dale Moss made two free throws 8 minutes, 42 seconds into the first half. They didn't convert a field goal until 6-foot-11 Mark Engen hit a 3-pointer at the 10:56 mark, ending an 0-for-15 start from the floor.
Freshman Clint Sargent followed with a jumper on the next possession and, incredibly, SDSU was within 13-7. However, the Jacks would not physically put the ball through the basket from the field again in the half as its only other "make" came on a goaltending call.

(read more)

[jackmd]

Re: ORU at home

We have seen some progress this year, I think, although that progress hasn't translated into wins.

Wins are the most tangible way to measure progress. We all know about the intangibles as they relate to our players and coaches. No argument about those. However, true progress is defined by success which means at least competing every night. We had no chance in the game last night. The final point spread is irrelevant, thats a cold hard fact. We need to take a good hard look at things next week and tough decisions might have to be made. Now, before people get pissed at me, I'm not making those decisions nor should I be. I'll support the program regardless. I support the current staff and think progress is being made as well but the most important factor really pertains to potential recruits. Do they see a viable, competitive program in the near future? Do the recruits we need to succeed believe that it can happen here? Again, I'm confident it can but that doesn't really matter.

[Jacks-02]

Re: ORU at home

And the rumor I've heard is that Nagy has two more years (after this one) to get the ship righted.

Rumors are usually worth what you paid for them, however.

I suspect that everybody involved in the program has a pretty good idea what they need to do in the off season to improve--coaches, players, everyone.

I'm looking forward to seeing the guys go out with a win vs. Centenary, and then looking forward to seeing a much improved team next year.

I agree with Jacks#1Fan that if we're staring at 20 losses again this time next year, then we need to take a hard, long, clear-eyed look at the men's basketball program.

I'm willing to let the Jacks work hard over the off-season, then come back next year and see what happens when Nagy can finally start a team on the court with more upper-classmen than freshmen and sophomores. Maybe we can figure out a way to get Nagy his third assistant coach, too.

We have seen some progress this year, I think, although that progress hasn't translated into wins.

We'll actually still be an underclassmen dominated team next year as Casey will be the only senior regular and Williams and Callahan the only Junior regulars. We'll have the JC transfer in Davis who would be a Junior, but for the most part will be as young or younger next year as we are this year.

I'm not saying we don't have a chance to be better next year than this, I'm optimistic that we will be, but we will still be awfully young once again. If we can keep everyone together, 2009-2010 could be a fun season though!

[NorCalJack]

Re: ORU at home

I'm willing to let the Jacks work hard over the off-season, then come back next year and see what happens when Nagy can finally start a team on the court with more upper-classmen than freshmen and sophomores. Maybe we can figure out a way to get Nagy his third assistant coach, too.

Well according to my count, we will have 16 players next year (13 Scholarship players and 3 walk-ons, I count Callahan as a scholarship player). Of these 16 players, 8 will be upper classmen and 8 will be freshman and sophmores. Of the 8 upper classmen, 6 are scholarship players and of the freshmen and sophmores, 7 are on scholarship.

Some people are starting to push the panic button and it is a little early for that. I think this program hit bottom last year and that as long as they continue to make progress you have to continue with the current staff. As I have stated before, this is a young team and young teams are in consistent. The first 12 minutes of last nights game was another example of this inconsistency. Last year we would have lost that game by 30 or more (think of the Kent State game).

You really can't judge the coaching staff or the players this year the same as you could a few years ago. Nagy does not want to start 2 Freshmen and 2 Sophmores, but he has no choice. That is the situation we are in and we have to live with it. Nobody else in the league is only starting one upperclassmen. We are also short one assistant coach. Don't know the status on this but would be a big help in getting the players ready.

You can also look at NDSU. Many believed they would win 20 games and have a shot at the NIT. Assuming they lose to ORU tomorrow night, they will be a .500 team. We as fans are sometimes overly optimistic at the beginning to the year. Playing the season can bring us all back to reality.

I'm still positive about the direction the program is heading. Some people need to be more patient. I do expect a good game for this team on Saturday. This is senior night and they are playing for 9th place in the league. SDSU played Cent. very tough on the road at the beginning of the season and I think we come out with a victory.

Go State!!!
Go Jacks!!!

[JimmyJack]

Re: ORU at home

I believe SDSU made a committment to its coaches, who were willing to stay on and be positive about the change (instead of the mice jumping ship like an institution to our south), that they would be supported through that transition (and I have to believe that anybody who knows anything about the transition doesn't understand that men's basketball is the hardest transition of all). Unless a number of players flee the ship, I can't see that any questions need to be asked until the end of the next season.

I have a few more points I would like to make later on this thread, but have to leave it at that for now.

I agree. And we have made progress this year. Last year's team, playing an independent schedule, wasn't very competitive most of the time. This year's team, playing in a league that is tougher than we thought, competed almost every night and lost 13 games by 10 or less (8 games by fewer than 6.)

SDSU operates perhaps in a different way than some D1 schools. We value loyalty and character in our coaches and reward it with patience. I can't imagine tossing aside a proven coach who has earned our respect and patience for some unknown quantity with only a promise of success. And I really can't imagine it happening when we're making progress.

I say give Coach Nagy a chance to build us a competitive program.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: ORU at home

Wins are the most tangible way to measure progress. We all know about the intangibles as they relate to our players and coaches. No argument about those. However, true progress is defined by success which means at least competing every night. We had no chance in the game last night. The final point spread is irrelevant, thats a cold hard fact...but the most important factor really pertains to potential recruits. Do they see a viable, competitive program in the near future? Do the recruits we need to succeed believe that it can happen here? Again, I'm confident it can but that doesn't really matter.

I think everybody on this board backs the Jacks obviously, and we can all certainly have our own opinions and see things differently. I certainly look at "progress" differently than JackMD. I look at the fact we are playing in a conference for the first time with some pretty good teams in it, and I see (comparing this year to last): Lost by 24 to Minnesota (07) and by 6 (08); beating Idaho twice rather than losing twice; losing to Oakland on an absolutely horrible goaltending call; losing to NDSU by 18 points at home (07) and by three this year); beating Northern Iowa 61-55 instead of losing to them 69-56 last year.

I don't care how you cut it, but IMHO we have made progress that hasn't translated to wins...but has laid the foundation. As for recruits, we already have our fall recruits (for better or worse) and our 2009 fall recruits (for better or worse) so our next target is 2010.

I REALLY take exception to an earlier poster who said we have no D-I players. We have had (and continue to have) D-I players, vis-a-vis Steve Holdren, now playing for Illinois, Andre Gilbert for Kansas State, and current players Ben Beran (who scored 26 points against Kentucky on the road, before his personal problems interfered), Kai Williams and Garret Callahan (I'm not including the freshmen because they need another year to prove themselves).

Finally, I agree with Filbert that being there it didn't seem as bad (uncomfortable maybe) as some posts put it. We started off horribly, but so did ORU (who by the way are 16-1 in the league so nobody else seems to be matching them either). Starting four seniors and one junior, they managed to right their ship a lot faster than we did. They started well in the second half also, but we still outscored them 39-33 and it wasn't just because they put in reserves...because they didn't. With four minutes to go, they still had three senior starters and two juniors on the floor. Their lone sophomore played for about a minute at the end, and we never saw the two freshmen on their team (the rest are juniors and seniors). OK, enough. I apologize for the long post. I feel better for posting. Good luck to ORU, sharing or winning outright the last four Summit regular season championships, and a two-time NCAA playoff team.