ORU at home

[JimmyJack]

Re: ORU at home

I'd just like to win, whether it's JuCo's or not.

A JuCo or two is OK now and then, particularly when they're also good students like Mo Berte. ORU deserves some credit in that area. They have a good APR from the NCAA, in the top ten percent, despite all the transfers and JuCos. Granted, the APR formula isn't a perfect way to judge programs (measures academic progress and adjusts for transfers out, etc.) but it's what we have, and ORU's basketball team does quite well in that area, too.

Only ORU's baseball program has a low APR, low enough to be admonished by the NCAA and if it stays low, they'll lose scholarships.

[2002jack]

Re: ORU at home

Out of 14 players on their current roster, Oral Roberts has 6 transfers. Either from JuCos or 4-year colleges.

Personally I like the fact that all teams at SDSU recruit heavilly at the high school level and keep players here for 4 years. We'll occasionally get a JuCo or 4-year transfer here or there to fill holes.

ORU's roster: http://www.orugoldeneagles.com/Sport...40&SPSID=87171

I'd just like to win, whether it's JuCo's or not.

[BTownJack]

Re: ORU at home

I don't know if Oral Roberts gets a lot of Juco players or not but they have 3 underclassmen on their whole team. They lose 4 seniors but they have about 6 juniors on the team.

Out of 14 players on their current roster, Oral Roberts has 6 transfers. Either from JuCos or 4-year colleges.

Personally I like the fact that all teams at SDSU recruit heavilly at the high school level and keep players here for 4 years. We'll occasionally get a JuCo or 4-year transfer here or there to fill holes.

ORU's roster: http://www.orugoldeneagles.com/Sport...40&SPSID=87171

[91jack]

Re: ORU at home

The game last night wasn't pretty. We had few open shots but they didn't go in(in the 1st half). Hit a few of those and rebound better and the game isn't so ugly. Yes, it was ugly.
Look at teams like Oral Roberts and NDSU(to a point). I don't know if Oral Roberts gets a lot of Juco players or not but they have 3 underclassmen on their whole team. They lose 4 seniors but they have about 6 juniors on the team. We played 1 senior against all seniors and juniors. I don't like looking too far in the future but after next year, what will they have? How about NDSU? We'll get better each year as our players get older, stronger and play more together.
We are better this year than last year. Would you feel better if we played NJIT twice this year to have 2 more wins? I guess that way we'd have over 10 wins and not 20 losses.
UMKC and Denver are the exceptions this year. They are 2 teams that we played better against last year. Even after losing badly at NDSU, we didn't lose to them by as many total points as we did last year. We had 5 games where the team "laid an egg".
We played several teams better than we did last year. Idaho, Wis-Mil, UNI, Minn, Montana, Wis-GB and IPFW. We didn't win most of these games but we played them tougher. I know that we lose our 3 seniors but I think other teams will have more holes to fill than we do. We are losing 3 "big" guys but that's what we have coming in. The experience we lose should be made up for by all the returning players we have. They all got quit a bit of experience this year.

[Jacks-02]

Re: ORU at home

It is amazing how having a true team leader can get you over the hump and make those close games W's rather than L's.

Look no further than Woodside at NDSU. He single-handedly took over the game at Frost. Great player and great leader, he had the ball in his hands on every posession the last 4 min of that game.

[JacksFroshFan]

Re: ORU at home

Kind of tough to argue and say all the talent we need is there.

I think RIGHT NOW, we have two legit D1 players that would see time at most mid majors, and that is Clint and Kai. Tough to put Callahan on that list due to him strictly playing the off guard at 6'-6'1 even though he has played pretty well this year for us.

We have quite a few players that don't have all around D1 games, but do have parts of their game that qualify to that level(hopefully that makes sense). It will be interesting to see how Cassady helps out next year, as unless I am mistaken he was projected to be one of our better freshman along with Clint.

No doubt about it, we are going to need some players to make major strides before next year. AC and Engen are the first to come to mind. If those two can make improvements and the JC bigman coming in, we might not miss much up front with the loss of our seniors. I think those three can make up for the rebounds lost by MO and Loney, and also the scoring Ben puts out. By no means do I mean that as a knock on those three players.

I do think with development of our big men, we will probably be a deeper team next year. Cassady and G. Callahan will come in and take up some minutes, and I think Tivis could be plugged in there for defense once in a while.

We aren't there yet, but I think it is on the right track. I definitely don't think this year's team is bad. So many close games that could have went the other way, could have made this board be raving about what to expect next year. I know an L is an L, but being in SO many games with this young of a team gives me hope that with a little more experience under their belt those close losses this year can turn into W's. I think we had 13 losses by less than 10 points. I don't want any losses, but knowing all of those games could very well have been win's still gives me excitement for next year.

WOW, way too long of a post!

One other thing, and it may be the biggest thing this team needs: A LEADER!!!

It is amazing how having a true team leader can get you over the hump and make those close games W's rather than L's.

[propar80]

Re: ORU at home

NDSU has what their coach & media have called the "best talented team ever" at NDSU. They are 15-13, and likely to lose on Saturday to finish at 15-14. What's that say?

Why don't you tell us what it says, smartguy. You're apparently in college, I to remember thinking I know better than everyone...everything, when I was your age. So...let's have it.

Go Jacks!!

[Just in the crowd]

Re: ORU at home

NDSU has what their coach & media have called the "best talented team ever" at NDSU. They are 15-13, and likely to lose on Saturday to finish at 15-14. What's that say?

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: ORU at home

We are not there yet!!! I admit it! Maybe I've just been dancing around it but we're not there yet talent wise.

I think we have a number of pieces to fit the puzzle but we still need to continue to improve in almost every area. I believe we will!

I apologize for speaking for everyone by saying "we are all frustrated" and will do better in the future.

SUPERBUNNY

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: ORU at home

The vast majority of these problems that Jackmd eludes to are caused by the situation that occurs with transition. It sucks! The coaches have told me and would probably tell anyone that recruiting is much easier now that we have a conference home and schedule, are eligible for post-season play next year, and basically have a lot more to play for. That is a HUGE deal to recruits!

What bothers me is that so many of the negative comments are really a slap in the face to the current players (not singling anyone out in particular here). Sure, they need to be big boys about these deals and pay no attention. There is nothing for them to be gained by looking at stuff on an "anonymous chat board" like this. It's all for our entertainment!

We have used NDSU as our measuring stick for a number of good reason but look at what happened up there. They had a magical season last year! Some real mileastone wins. They've taken a couple of steps backwards this year and are basically .500. Will that gap close even further next year? Don't know about them but I believe we will continue to improve.

I'm looking for a us to continue to buid the program back to the traditional level we had been used to. It may take time but if progress is being made than I am happy. Slow and steady wins the race!

SUPERBUNNY

[Nidaros]

Re: ORU at home

I don't think anyone is denying that we need to get better. That isn't going to happen overnight but it is time to see consistent progress towards that goal. I think we have progressed this year even though there isn't a huge difference in the win column but there is a major difference in how competitive we have been.

I do disagree with you in the contention that we need to upgrade our team to have "10 Kai's" to make it to the dance. As the top rebounder and a top tier scorer, Kai would be welcomed on any team in the Summitt League. I think Ben fits into that category as well. The rest of the player on the team will improve with the experience they have received and with a strong off-season workout program. The talent of the players coming in needs to continue to raise the bar. I'm optimistic that will happen with our coaching staff, others disagree. Coach Nagy has stuck with us through transition and he deserves the opportunity to prove that.

The team that Oral Roberts has is a great target for us in the future. Their team is loaded with juniors and seniors and they are rotating them through their system and have been consistently good year after year. We were that way at D2 and think we can get there at this level. Why not SDSU?

We're all frustrated but I am still optimistic!

SUPERBUNNY

I am not questioning any one's talent in particular, we flat do not have the depth right now to go 10 deep and it seems Nagy himself has said several times that certain players were putting in too many minutes on the floor, such Clint Kai and whoever else plays a host of minutes. I think the key players are very exhausted at the final horn. That in itself suggests we lack in depth with talent. If you got big dance dreams we need a bunch of talent that we dont have right now, otherwise it will only be dreams. At the same time I was not suggesting we cheat or cut corners to get therre, nor do we need a new coach.

I agree wholeheartly with your ORU comments, no doubt the best team to get to Frost this year. I dont have any doubts about SDSU at the D1 level, but why not be honest and admit we are not there yet. BTW, I slept very good last night so don't think that I am frustrated and if I am its about non-basketball issues.

[jackmd]

Re: ORU at home

I agree. And we have made progress this year. Last year's team, playing an independent schedule, wasn't very competitive most of the time. This year's team, playing in a league that is tougher than we thought, competed almost every night and lost 13 games by 10 or less (8 games by fewer than 6.)

SDSU operates perhaps in a different way than some D1 schools. We value loyalty and character in our coaches and reward it with patience. I can't imagine tossing aside a proven coach who has earned our respect and patience for some unknown quantity with only a promise of success. And I really can't imagine it happening when we're making progress.

I say give Coach Nagy a chance to build us a competitive program.

You and I understand that and I believe some recruits and their families appreciate that. I'm not prepared to be a bottom of the league team or even just a middle of the pack team in the Summit League. I expected about a 10 win season against DI opponents this with 6-7 wins in conference. I'm disappointed in our conference results and I'm very concerned about several of our performances in games where we flat out didn't compete. You can explain away progress in a variety of ways and I am in agreement that those arguments seem logical. That said, becoming a competitive program at the DI level is VERY IMPORTANT to me. Is it the most important thing about moving to DI? Obviously not. I want to see us recruit quality student athletes and obtain/retain coaches who have the best interest of those student athletes in mind. You can have all of those things.

When we made the move up we were in great position to do so. Things changed rapidly and we're now basically at ground zero/back to the drawing board. Take offense if you would like but many of the recruits we took a chance on (thats what it is really) haven't cut it at this level for a variety of reasons (we don't need to go into details). Who do we place that blame on? Is it anyone's fault at all? These are questions that I am sure are being asked of Coach Nagy already.

Here is hoping we can bounce back on Saturday against Centenary. I was thinking a blowout was in order but I'll reserve any predicitions.

[Nidaros]

Re: ORU at home

I agree. And we have made progress this year. Last year's team, playing an independent schedule, wasn't very competitive most of the time. This year's team, playing in a league that is tougher than we thought, competed almost every night and lost 13 games by 10 or less (8 games by fewer than 6.)

SDSU operates perhaps in a different way than some D1 schools. We value loyalty and character in our coaches and reward it with patience. I can't imagine tossing aside a proven coach who has earned our respect and patience for some unknown quantity with only a promise of success. And I really can't imagine it happening when we're making progress.

I say give Coach Nagy a chance to build us a competitive program.

I am with you too, on these comments, Jimmy and also with that said by Jack#1fan. Even if we where to make a coaching change, where would we get the salary and what have to find a bigger and better coach within the ranks of D1? If there is anything scary about D1 basketball, its these big dollar coaches who can walk away from bad situations with pockets full of money and the institution is left with problems and the sanctions imposed by the NCAA.

No I think Nagy is our guy, we do need more patience, but at the same time, you can not ignore what appears to be a talent and experience gap. I certainly dont think SDSU has to compromise any values to close that gap. I think we can progress with smart recruiting and most likely this will happen. What is encouraging is our current roster does not give up .
Coach Nagy has mentioned more than once the upbeat attittude that comes to practice, so no one is leaving that I know of. At times our current guys seem to get spanked by the more experienced teams, but this too will change with time.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: ORU at home

Having had a chance to see all of our opponents with exception of Centenary, it clearly shows we do our best with what we got, but to dream ourselves into the big dance we have to find better talent overall in the future. Being new to D1, we have had to take whats out their and sometimes we have found talent passed over.I.E Callahan and Williams.

I am not saying that that Kai, Garrett and Clint are not talented enough, but its going to be a few years before, Nagy can go 10 deep like we did in the NCC. ORU and the Butler teams should be our models as far as future teams. Maybe our current roster will look like them 2 years from now. I truly hope so.

It takes at least 10 Kai William's to get to the big dance and move about .500 in wins and loses.

I never saw a three attempt by Garrett Callahan get swatted in the air as it left his hands but it happen in the ORU game. I thought we were playing a CBA team. THose ORU guys are very good and experienced. The over all talent in the Summit is very good. Its going to take some very smart recruiting down the road here in order for us to even compete let alone win.

Hopefully our young guys will step to a higher level next year, but seeing is believing. I am hoping they will come through and the new additions to next years roster will add some more depth. I for one have not given up on the program. A lot of people on this board told me that D1 would be the hardest for men's basketball. Guess what I now believe what you said.

I don't think anyone is denying that we need to get better. That isn't going to happen overnight but it is time to see consistent progress towards that goal. I think we have progressed this year even though there isn't a huge difference in the win column but there is a major difference in how competitive we have been.

I do disagree with you in the contention that we need to upgrade our team to have "10 Kai's" to make it to the dance. As the top rebounder and a top tier scorer, Kai would be welcomed on any team in the Summitt League. I think Ben fits into that category as well. The rest of the player on the team will improve with the experience they have received and with a strong off-season workout program. The talent of the players coming in needs to continue to raise the bar. I'm optimistic that will happen with our coaching staff, others disagree. Coach Nagy has stuck with us through transition and he deserves the opportunity to prove that.

The team that Oral Roberts has is a great target for us in the future. Their team is loaded with juniors and seniors and they are rotating them through their system and have been consistently good year after year. We were that way at D2 and think we can get there at this level. Why not SDSU?

We're all frustrated but I am still optimistic!

SUPERBUNNY

[89rabbit]

Re: ORU at home

I agree. And we have made progress this year. Last year's team, playing an independent schedule, wasn't very competitive most of the time. This year's team, playing in a league that is tougher than we thought, competed almost every night and lost 13 games by 10 or less (8 games by fewer than 6.)

SDSU operates perhaps in a different way than some D1 schools. We value loyalty and character in our coaches and reward it with patience. I can't imagine tossing aside a proven coach who has earned our respect and patience for some unknown quantity with only a promise of success. And I really can't imagine it happening when we're making progress.

I say give Coach Nagy a chance to build us a competitive program.

Here here!!! Rep points for you both!!


Go State!