NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

[thebluehatman]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Not to start an uproar here, but...

What would you call it then?

I won't respond in detail as it's already been addressed. How far you travel has anything to do with it. I travel just as far for every game (missed the California games and Minnesota) and if I decided to still come, but not cheer and sit there because I was mad, frustrated, etc... I'd consider myself a fairweather fan.

This team doesn't quit no matter what the score is. Not one time have I seen them shut down and give up. I would hope that we would show them that same respect and stick with them.

You're missing the point completely. I didn't see anything in filbert's post that said he was going to stop cheering...That was assumed by you interpreting the post. Posting the same thing again and again does no good. It's okay to be frustrated and not say a thing.

Back to the game:
Coaching can only do so much. The players have to want it more.
It's time to drop the we're young phase we are so used to. Sophomores have had more than a year and a half of experience. Freshman have had half a year of experience. NDSU was young the last 2 years and didn't have to use the excuse.
Our boys looked slow compared to NDSU's and looked smaller. (JOKE HERE) I think it's time to start rooming some of the basketball team with some of the offensive linemen. We need to put on the size to be able to be more physical. (Not that we aren't right now).
Is it me or does our guard play struggle at times? Our guards used to be the leaders of the team in the past, now it looks like the forwards are the key to our team. Callahan can't have a quiet night and expect us to win.
What is it about road games this second half of the year that brings the worst out of us. We can't be just a homecourt team and expect to be good. Sure we could be 13-0 at home but we could also be 0-16 on the road. Granted we would all be happy with a 13-16 record compared to what we have had.
Why do some people not play more? Easy Cunningham said a few weeks ago the reason Mo and the rest of our big guys don't get much playing time is because they are smaller than most of the posts in the league. Coach would rather have our guys that have more S I Z E weight and strength wise, than he does Height wise.
Until the guys want it more than the other team we will be stuck where we're at right now. End of story. All those games we lost by less than 7 were because the other team wanted it more.

[JimmyJack]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Exactly why I like Cordova. He shows that intensity. I see it in Garrett and Ben evey now and then. Loney always seems to be giving his all, most the time its not enough but its all Loney can give. Youth isn't an excuse. Inexperience is relative. I think some fans aren't willing to admit that we are where we are, not good. What do you do when things aren't good? You make them better. How do we make them better? Lots of answers to that question. What are the right ones? Thats why coaching is a tough job.

Agreed. As someone who has nearly 200 18-year-olds in my classes, though, I can only ask that we try to remember what it's like to be that age. Then add the pressure of thousands of fans' expectations. Then add the pressure of playing against older and more experienced players like Woodside in meaningful games and on the road.

All I'm saying is it ain't easy to be an 18-year-old D1 player with few upperclassmen around to demonstrate effort and fearlessness under tough circumstances. At some point, the young guys are going to figure it out. As you say, I think we can see Cordova doing that right before our eyes. Sargent has shown us what he can do. And I would suggest that Moss is on a fast track to figure it out, too.

We're suffering from unrealistic expectations right now. The Summit League is better than we all thought. And just having a full roster doesn't mean we're instantaneously going to be a .500 team. But anybody can see there's talent there. They show it inconsistently, because of that whole 18-year-old thing. We've got Cassadey on the shelf until next year. We've got a very mature young man, 6'7" shooter James Rader, Griffan Callahan, and a 6'10" JC center coming in next year. Plus, we'll have the returning guys with a year of hard knocks under their belts.

This team is going to keep getting better. There will be setbacks like last night. But they're going to get there.

[ViciousCircle]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Well said JimmyJack...

I think anyone that was actually at the game could see the difference between the juniors at NDSU and our Fr. and SO. The strength and size physically were hardly comparable. As we sat at the game and even after that game. That was brought up a couple times. They were strong. It was obvious they have had experience playing together.

Winning on the road is tough at this level. Even with NDSU's experience, I believe they are somewhere right around 2-8 on the road.

I think this team is going to continue to grow and get better. I am still waiting for a leader to emerge from the pack.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

I'm a glutton for punishment, so here goes:

NDSU 2005-06 season
Ben Woodside 28 games started, 34.4 min/game
Lucas Moorman 28 games started, 24 min/game
Brett Winkelman 28 games started, 31.3 min/game
Mike Nelson 14 games started (28 played), 29 min/game

All Freshmen that season. Record 16-12 with a road win over Wisconsin. All four started versus SDSU last night as well.

What's my point? Two-fold.
1. That was a young team that had it figured out and won some games. Including one of the biggest shockers of the year in DI with the win over Wisconsin. Someone explain how their young players can have success like that? Will someone say Miles is a better coach than Nagy??? Yes, there were a few cupcakes on their schedule, but they also played many teams that are as good or better than we or they will face this year.
2. Look what keeping young talent together can do for a team. Oh, and they have a new coach this year who seems to be doing just fine with their talent.

[Hammersmith]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

CatchEmAll is correct about keeping the same group of guys together for several years. The reason why our(NDSU's) program is doing so well is that Tim Miles and his staff did a phenomenal job of scouting talent and recruiting(that UM and UW overlooked some great players sure didn't hurt anything). Beyond that, sacrificing the 04-05 season to allow our "fab five*" to redshirt was almost as important as the recruiting. One of the last major pieces to our puzzle was a great strength and conditioning staff. That begs the question: how are you guys set up in that department? Do you have one or more full-time people that just handles the weight room(etc.)? If not, that's where you need to start. NDSU's three-person staff has helped almost every sport at NDSU. In fact, the sports that are struggling the most are the same ones whose athletes don't embrace the full s&c concept(or at least that's the rumor).

*our "fab five" became a "fab four" when one of the five developed post-concussion syndrome after repeated concussions in high school and college and had to hang up his sneakers.

[jacks1]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Very well said...rep points for you.

I'm a glutton for punishment, so here goes:

NDSU 2005-06 season
Ben Woodside 28 games started, 34.4 min/game
Lucas Moorman 28 games started, 24 min/game
Brett Winkelman 28 games started, 31.3 min/game
Mike Nelson 14 games started (28 played), 29 min/game

All Freshmen that season. Record 16-12 with a road win over Wisconsin. All four started versus SDSU last night as well.

What's my point? Two-fold.
1. That was a young team that had it figured out and won some games. Including one of the biggest shockers of the year in DI with the win over Wisconsin. Someone explain how their young players can have success like that? Will someone say Miles is a better coach than Nagy??? Yes, there were a few cupcakes on their schedule, but they also played many teams that are as good or better than we or they will face this year.
2. Look what keeping young talent together can do for a team. Oh, and they have a new coach this year who seems to be doing just fine with their talent.

[EQguy]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

I think Hammersmith answered your question catchem. All four of those kids practiced together for a year without ever seeing the floor in a game. If I had to guess I'd bet they spent many practices on the same team working together giving the non red-shirt players a look. It has translated well for them. As for the new coach, he was the assistant under Miles so there wasn't much of a bump in the transition to a new head coach.

Hammersmith, our strength staff consists of 1 full time coach and 3 GA's. The full time strength coach is the real deal. He takes the football, MBB and WBB teams himself and the GA's assist and take the other sports.

[filbert]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Thanks to a PM, ViciousCircle has clarified the point at which I harshed his feng shui. He takes serious issue with my comment that I'll cheer until we're down 20.

First of all, he is completely within his rights to tell me I'm full of (insert your favorite naughty word here). I'm a big boy, I can take it.

This is in fact not at all a new policy for me, in fact, it's how I've cheered for as long as I've a Rabbit fan. My idea here is that the team on the court needs to give me some kind of reason to cheer. It doesn't have to be a lot, but falling behind by 20 isn't on the list. I'll actually make exceptions if the Jacks show signs of life even if they're down big, so it's not a hard and fast rule. But one of the reasons I have such rules for myself is that if I didn't have them, I'd quite possibly hurt myself--and I'm serious about that.

I've gone home with splitting headaches and without the ability to talk in the past after Jackrabbit games, and I don't really need to be on any more blood pressure meds, so I'm not going to apologize for putting some boundaries on my vocalness.

I'm not asking anybody to follow my lead here, it's just how I do my own little bit of personal game management.

I hope that clears that up.

As for the rest of it, I'm certainly guilty of Posting While Upset. If there's a 12-step group for that, I think a lot of us probably need to join.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

For the record, Nagy absolutely owns Tim Miles when it comes to head-to-head matchups.

Not saying he isn't a great coach, but our guy isn't chopped liver.

Just need improvement to make everyone happy!

SUPERBUNNY

[thebluehatman]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/178597

“Our seniors the past three, four years have been so beat down that it’s becoming so easy for us to lose,” said SDSU head coach Scott Nagy. “I’m sick of it. I’m sick of losing. We can say we’re young, we’re young. I’m tired of saying it. I just wish we were tougher.”

“We just do not take good care of the basketball,” Nagy said.

[Nidaros]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

CatchEmAll is correct about keeping the same group of guys together for several years. The reason why our(NDSU's) program is doing so well is that Tim Miles and his staff did a phenomenal job of scouting talent and recruiting(that UM and UW overlooked some great players sure didn't hurt anything). Beyond that, sacrificing the 04-05 season to allow our "fab five*" to redshirt was almost as important as the recruiting. One of the last major pieces to our puzzle was a great strength and conditioning staff. That begs the question: how are you guys set up in that department? Do you have one or more full-time people that just handles the weight room(etc.)? If not, that's where you need to start. NDSU's three-person staff has helped almost every sport at NDSU. In fact, the sports that are struggling the most are the same ones whose athletes don't embrace the full s&c concept(or at least that's the rumor).

*our "fab five" became a "fab four" when one of the five developed post-concussion syndrome after repeated concussions in high school and college and had to hang up his sneakers.

I think these are all good points. The Bison have some solid people despite losing one to medical reason. Did you not have another marginal guy transfer to the SD School of Mines?

Why SDSU laid such a big egg as Beran was quoted in the Fargo Forum is beyond me. SDSU as others have said needs to turn the corner here very soon. We have different prez, who loves to watch basketball so I am sure he is not all bubbly about our performance in Fargo. I imagine he was a guest of President Chapman at the game, and no doubt it was hard to smile under these circumstances. I know I would not be smiling and high fiving.

I am guessing that Nagy will be given an opportunity to coach at least two years through the Summit competition, but if we are in the basement the entire time, well who knows what will happen. I dont.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/178597

“Our seniors the past three, four years have been so beat down that it’s becoming so easy for us to lose,” said SDSU head coach Scott Nagy. “I’m sick of it. I’m sick of losing. We can say we’re young, we’re young. I’m tired of saying it. I just wish we were tougher.”

“We just do not take good care of the basketball,” Nagy said.

This is what I'm afraid of. Much like we're forgetting about USD and the rivalry that once was, this program is forgetting how to win. It's just not the same anymore. I do believe we have the talent on the roster and the coaching staff. But for one reason or another, the job isn't getting done.

[jackmd]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

This is what I'm afraid of. Much like we're forgetting about USD and the rivalry that once was, this program is forgetting how to win. It's just not the same anymore. I do believe we have the talent on the roster and the coaching staff. But for one reason or another, the job isn't getting done.

Taking it a littler further, I get the impression from some that we need to accept poor performance after poor performance based on a list of what I consider excuses, not reasons. Enough talk, time for action. I think the last half the Summit League season should be evaluated very critically by admin in the AD. Changes may need to be made and I think your kidding only yourself if you don't recognize that.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Back from the game(s) with just a couple of minor, irrelevent posts I suppose:

1) The redshirt year for the NDSU juniors was indeed an important move.

2) A fairly-good player named Andre Smith was a major factor in how good they did in their first and second years (as any Bison fan will tell you this year with Smith gone).

3) Road games are tough...this year's Bison team with their more experienced players hasn't won a single road game.

We were outhustled, outshot and generally overwhelmed at the start of the game, so as Ben said, we did lay an egg. Not much to do about it now but to keep pulling for the Jacks!!

[FargoBison]

Re: NDSU Game in Fargo 1/25/08

Back from the game(s) with just a couple of minor, irrelevent posts I suppose:

1) The redshirt year for the NDSU juniors was indeed an important move.

2) A fairly-good player named Andre Smith was a major factor in how good they did in their first and second years (as any Bison fan will tell you this year with Smith gone).

3) Road games are tough...this year's Bison team with their more experienced players hasn't won a single road game.

We were outhustled, outshot and generally overwhelmed at the start of the game, so as Ben said, we did lay an egg. Not much to do about it now but to keep pulling for the Jacks!!

NDSU has won at Centenary and Tennesse Tech, I think we are 2-8 or something like that on the road. Keep in mind also that 7 of those 8 losses were to tough competition(Florida, Rutgers, UWGB, UMN, Cal, ORU, IUPUI)