ORU

[SoDakJack]

Re: ORU

If you would care to give a general area as to where you were sitting then maybe it might help send a message. There were some pretty bad calls last night and I can say that I let them hear it. Kept it classy but yelled nevertheless.

SUPERBUNNY

East side. I agree there were a couple bad calls. But to yell, scream, and cry about hand checks for the whole game is inane. Especially when, if actually watching the game, you would know that both teams get away with it.

[Jackbacker123]

Re: ORU

Why should he be in the last 10:00? When they needed Dale in the game he had to sit because of foul trouble. Not to talk down on a kid, but, he's a liability on the offensive end of the floor unless he is rebounding the ball and getting putbacks. Lets be honest that hasn't been the case most of the year if you are averaging 3 RPG. SDSU needed people in the game the final 10:00 that could score or atleast have to be guarded. ORU absolutely begged Dale to shoot jumpers when he was in the game. They sagged off him and were more than willing to give him open looks and jumpers. Chad is a threat to score and make shots, you have to guard him. You can't sag off Chad to help on a Nate Wolters drives like you can with Dale in the game. I wouldn't say that Nagy has no faith or trust in Dale, it was simply not a situation where Dale was the best option to have on the floor due to the game circumstances.


You could also quote the stats for the year, which might be a little more telling on who should be playing more or why there is so much split time. Not a whole lot of difference between the two in a few of the stats, however, I think Chad is definitely the bigger threat offensively.

Chad White: 21.1 MPG, 55% FG, 46% 3FG, 4.1 RPG
Dale Moss: 22.6 MPG, 52% FG, 30% 3FG, 3.3 RPG

Dale is a much better defender than Chad at this point in their careers. Chad still has the tendency to get a little lost defensively, but that is a problem a few guys have this year. I would venture to guess that if SDSU would have been up the majority of the game like ORU was, we would have seen Dale on the floor because of his defense, but obviously that was not the case last evening. As I said, we needed people on the floor that have the ability to get rolling offensively.

I don't disagree with any argument people will make about the differences in their offensive potential. I do disagree with the thinking that we needed to have a line-up in that could keep the offense rolling. Nagy said himself that the issue was we couldn't get "defensive stops". A line-up of full offensive minded players isn't going to get a lot of defensive stops.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: ORU

East side. I agree there were a couple bad calls. But to yell, scream, and cry about hand checks for the whole game is inane. Especially when, if actually watching the game, you would know that both teams get away with it.

I had someone behind me complaining about every call against the Jacks too. Maybe he was watching Sutton too much and wanted to compete with him. There were a few questionable calls like there is in every game and in every game there are questionable calls against both teams. We make free throws, we win the game.

[ViciousCircle]

Re: ORU

I don't disagree with any argument people will make about the differences in their offensive potential. I do disagree with the thinking that we needed to have a line-up in that could keep the offense rolling. Nagy said himself that the issue was we couldn't get "defensive stops". A line-up of full offensive minded players isn't going to get a lot of defensive stops.

At what point were we getting stops while he was in the game?

We weren't getting stops whether it was Chad or Dale on the floor. With Chad in, ORU had to play him honest and weren't able to sag and help on Nate's penetration.

If we had been getting stops with Dale on the floor, I would agree with you 100%, but it just didn't matter last night. The right lineup was on the floor for the situation.

[SoDakJack]

Re: ORU

I had someone behind me complaining about every call against the Jacks too. Maybe he was watching Sutton too much and wanted to compete with him. There were a few questionable calls like there is in every game and in every game there are questionable calls against both teams. We make free throws, we win the game.

I agree 100%. Although had they called all the fouls and sent the Jacks to the line the game really would have been a blow out.

[SoDakJack]

Re: ORU

At what point were we getting stops while he was in the game?

We weren't getting stops whether it was Chad or Dale on the floor. With Chad in, ORU had to play him honest and weren't able to sag and help on Nate's penetration.

If we had been getting stops with Dale on the floor, I would agree with you 100%, but it just didn't matter last night. The right lineup was on the floor for the situation.

The biggest problem I noticed last night was the help defense on the perimeter. Nate was coming off his man in the second half to help down low and there was no rotation to help out. That left them wide open all night.

[Jackbacker123]

Re: ORU

At what point were we getting stops while he was in the game?

We weren't getting stops whether it was Chad or Dale on the floor. With Chad in, ORU had to play him honest and weren't able to sag and help on Nate's penetration.

If we had been getting stops with Dale on the floor, I would agree with you 100%, but it just didn't matter last night. The right lineup was on the floor for the situation.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Another line-up question I have is would anyone else like to see Tony and Jordan on the court together a little more often, especially against bigger line-ups? Nagy did it for a few minutes last night and also a few games ago. I think they both still have alot to learn but i think it would be interesting to see them on the court together a little more often.

[filbert]

Re: ORU

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Another line-up question I have is would anyone else like to see Tony and Jordan on the court together a little more often, especially against bigger line-ups? Nagy did it for a few minutes last night and also a few games ago. I think they both still have alot to learn but i think it would be interesting to see them on the court together a little more often.

A team of shooters who get out-shot will get beat.

A team of shooters who can also dig in and defend like rabid weasels have a chance on a night when they're not shooting the lights out.

Our team, to put it mildly, are not rabid weasels on defense. Far, FAR too often, they are mostly spectators as the opponents put their offense into motion. Just watch their lack of effectiveness at covering guys on the off-side . . . guys who it seems inevitably get the ball at the 3-point line for a wide frickin' open 3 point shot in the corner, where the guy who's supposed to be guarding the shooter is parked underneath the basket guarding absolutely nobody.

See also (related): This Team Has No Strong Forwards, Let Alone Centers.

[sfjacksfan99]

Re: ORU

The gripers about the reffing have never watched an ORU game against anybody. They seem to set the tone right away to push the limits to the absolute max. They are typically the roughest team in the Summit League and get away with a lot of sh*t.

Nate Wolters is sick and to watch two phenomenal HOME GAMES go to waste is upsetting.

Alex Young (IUPUI) peeled the Jacks apart at home last year. They better get their defense to step up or he's going to have a picnic against them this week.

[bigticket1]

Re: ORU

I agree 100%. Although had they called all the fouls and sent the Jacks to the line the game really would have been a blow out.

At times,it seemed that ORU was smart to foul and make the Jacks shoot free throws,especially if it was someone other than Nate,Clint or Griff.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: ORU

At what point were we getting stops while he was in the game?

We weren't getting stops whether it was Chad or Dale on the floor. With Chad in, ORU had to play him honest and weren't able to sag and help on Nate's penetration.

If we had been getting stops with Dale on the floor, I would agree with you 100%, but it just didn't matter last night. The right lineup was on the floor for the situation.

I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this. I'm a fan of both players so no horse in the race. Frankly, I'm a fan of the team and just want a win.

Dale is a really athletic guy but he relies on it all the time. Let me explain. It seems to me that he gets caught out of position a lot but has the athletic ability to catch back up. The result is that he gets some incredible blocks and spectacular looking plays. The problem is that it creates a problem for the rest of the team. They have to seitch off their player to cover Dale. Often times, it means an easy open shot for the other team. Also, to many times he tries to make any play spectacular rather than just get it done. You can always count on him playing hard.

Chad obviously brings more to the table offensively and is a "bigger" body. He's going to be a great player by the time he is done but he is young and still has a lot to learn especially on the defensive end.

I've never played basketball on a team in my life so I'd be interested in what people with some knowledge think of my comments above, particularily when it come to Dale.

We need solid play out of both guys to be good. Why the playing times last night? Somebody should ask coach. My guess is he was a little busy trying to get back into the game last night to worry about how many minutes each player has.

I still am in shock at the 83% they hit from 3 last night. Open or not that is unreal! We do need to improve on defense and I think we are but much more to do. Rebounding is an issue. They wanted it more and won that part of the game. Free throw shooting was brutal.

To me, we shale it off and move to the next game. Look at the positives and work on the rest. We're young and these things happen. With a point guard like Nate we are going to be in every game. The more experience we get in those situations the better we will be at tournament time. That is the goal! Be playing our best when we go to Sioux Falls!

SUPERBUNNY

[RabbitinTea]

Re: ORU

A little off-topic, but I'm wondering what everyone else noticed regarding Sean Sutton last night. I've copied a link to an article describing his relationship with ORU below.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5659672

Here's a quote from the article "Sean Sutton will not be able to give direct instruction to players, but he will be able to watch practice and film and make suggestions to his brother and the Golden Eagles' three full-time assistant coaches."

I heard the same type of description of his arrangement when I watched ORU play Oklahome earlier.

From my seats under the basket on the visitor side, it was OBVIOUS that he had direct contact with the athletes and at one point he was actually calling a play and providing instruction during gameplay. However, most of his interaction was on the bench and during timeouts. We did notice on one occasion that he communicated something to a coach who then relayed it to the player, but otherwise the rest of the time you would never have known he wasn't supposed to give direct instruction because he was doing it the whole game.

Anyway, this isn't sour grapes as we were simply outplayed last night but the "arrangement" was completely inappropriate last night.

Anyone else have other observations?

[bub94]

Re: ORU

I still am in shock at the 83% they hit from 3 last night. Open or not that is unreal! We do need to improve on defense and I think we are but much more to do. Rebounding is an issue. They wanted it more and won that part of the game. Free throw shooting was brutal.
SUPERBUNNY

THIS!!!!! Seriously, what team shoots over 80% from 3-point land. Not all of those shots were open. I really thought their hot streak was going to end but it never did. Nate was a complete stud last night. Griff and Clint had good games too. But the rebounding has got to be better than last night. The Jacks would put on a nice push then ORU hits a 3. Jacks put on another push. ORU for 3! How many people lost half their hair last night from pulling it out?

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: ORU

A little off-topic, but I'm wondering what everyone else noticed regarding Sean Sutton last night. I've copied a link to an article describing his relationship with ORU below.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5659672

Here's a quote from the article "Sean Sutton will not be able to give direct instruction to players, but he will be able to watch practice and film and make suggestions to his brother and the Golden Eagles' three full-time assistant coaches."

I heard the same type of description of his arrangement when I watched ORU play Oklahome earlier.

From my seats under the basket on the visitor side, it was OBVIOUS that he had direct contact with the athletes and at one point he was actually calling a play and providing instruction during gameplay. However, most of his interaction was on the bench and during timeouts. We did notice on one occasion that he communicated something to a coach who then relayed it to the player, but otherwise the rest of the time you would never have known he wasn't supposed to give direct instruction because he was doing it the whole game.

Anyway, this isn't sour grapes as we were simply outplayed last night but the "arrangement" was completely inappropriate last night.

Anyone else have other observations?

I didn't watch him last night I guess but I have noticed this very same thing from games I've watched of theirs on the computer/TV. I don't know, though, how strict the NCAA is on this or if there is even a way to monitor it. I suppose in games like last night it's maybe up to the SDSU coaches or AD to file a complaint and I doubt that will happen. Dan Fife might.

[JackJD]

Re: ORU

Guys, this performance by ORU is totally uncharacteristic (up to now, but we hope things are changing). The team totally responded to the beat down by the ref at NDSU. You guys happened to be the next team in the way.

Wolters is phenomenal and my guess is that he could do this any night he wanted. Last night he noticed that other things were not working and he better pick up the slack. He darn near did it too.

I like his attitude. He is very unassuming and lets his play do the talking. In that fashion he is a very eloquent orator. I enjoyed watching him play already when the team was in Winnipeg in the summer. It was apparent then where he was going this year.

You guys have a team to be reckoned with. We were just unconscious last night making shots and made clutch shots even when hands were in our faces at the end of the game.

You are going to beat a lot of Summit League teams this year and will probably be in the thick of a fight for second place.

The ORU men weren't going to be beat by many teams because of the way they were shooting. They were unbelievable beyond the arc...and they took advantage of it. Last time I saw a team do something that approached 82% with more than 10 going in was SDSU's women.

I thought our guys were playing well, particularly in the second half. The free-throw shooting was the one bad area but the effort, shooting percentages etc. were there. Hats off to ORU this time.