USD at SDSU in 2011?

[JimmyJack]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

The good news here is that even the slightly "smacky" stuff on this thread has been pretty tame.

A few observations:

-- Our students may not have experienced the rivalry, but they still respond to it when you talk about USD. That worries me a little bit. Education is required. We don't need to have our students parroting the bad behavior of the past.

-- There is no doubt that fans on BOTH sides of the rivalry have, at times, behaved badly. Admitting that is the first step towards dealing with it.

-- At this point, what USD did or did not do when we moved up seems to be a sticking point for some people. That was then. This is now. There's no choice here but to move on. Funnel that energy into supporting the Jackrabbits.

-- I think at this point SDSU has made a reputation in FCS for playing tough teams in non-conference games. A rivalry game will be seen as a tough game, no matter the status of the opponent (and you can't argue that USD isn't developing into a decent program). It's an FCS opponent. Many top teams (I'm looking at you, SIU) play lower division teams in their non-conference schedules. We're adding another FCS game.

-- yoteforever is right about revenue. The alternatives to this game are either an expensive road game or paying somebody to come to CAS. Rather than a deficit game, this one is a revenue generator. Given the state of the economy, who can argue that's not a big deal? If we didn't need this game, the administration wouldn't schedule it.

-- This kind of game is supposed to be fun. That's the way I'm looking at it. It's good for the student athletes. It's good for the state. It's a home game (or two) for us. I don't know about anybody else, but those five or six Saturdays are my favorite sporting events of the year, particularly when CAS is packed.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

The good news here is that even the slightly "smacky" stuff on this thread has been pretty tame.

A few observations:

-- Our students may not have experienced the rivalry, but they still respond to it when you talk about USD. That worries me a little bit. Education is required. We don't need to have our students parroting the bad behavior of the past.

-- There is no doubt that fans on BOTH sides of the rivalry have, at times, behaved badly. Admitting that is the first step towards dealing with it.

-- At this point, what USD did or did not do when we moved up seems to be a sticking point for some people. That was then. This is now. There's no choice here but to move on. Funnel that energy into supporting the Jackrabbits.

-- I think at this point SDSU has made a reputation in FCS for playing tough teams in non-conference games. A rivalry game will be seen as a tough game, no matter the status of the opponent (and you can't argue that USD isn't developing into a decent program). It's an FCS opponent. Many top teams (I'm looking at you, SIU) play lower division teams in their non-conference schedules. We're adding another FCS game.

-- yoteforever is right about revenue. The alternatives to this game are either an expensive road game or paying somebody to come to CAS. Rather than a deficit game, this one is a revenue generator. Given the state of the economy, who can argue that's not a big deal? If we didn't need this game, the administration wouldn't schedule it.

-- This kind of game is supposed to be fun. That's the way I'm looking at it. It's good for the student athletes. It's good for the state. It's a home game (or two) for us. I don't know about anybody else, but those five or six Saturdays are my favorite sporting events of the year, particularly when CAS is packed.

Holy Nutmeg, I am in full agreement. We cant loose from a revenue point of view or at least I think we need to test the waters and see what an SDSU-USD match up will do in terms of revenue. This brief separation of competition may have affected a number of things that were not there before and I can not list one, but they are probably out there. I would hope we would continue to look for the best competition we can find. It now appears Delaware series was an attempt to fill the schedules in the transition period. I am sure we will have plenty of opportunity to meet up with Deleware in the playoffs if we are worthy to make the playoffs. The Delwares and Montana's do not yield the revenue payoffs that we received last Saturday playing Minnesota.

[jack43]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Since this seems to a repeating subject that won't go away, lets play them. 2011-2012. Two games, no further contract. I still think it would be detrimental to our current situation to sign a yearly deal where we play each other annually. I want to keep scheduling options for other FCS/FBS teams open in the future, and remember....they need this far more than we do (as long as their conference situation remains as is).

[CatchEmAll]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Here's one "observation". Is there a chance that since the current student base has never experienced an SDSU-USD game that some of the "hatred" and "childish fan antics" may not surface. All of us remember them because we lived them and I'm sure some contributed to the stupidity. When I arrived on campus in 1991 the first thing I was told was to hate USD. I grew up in Minnesota and didn't even know what USD was. Today's students have to have a different attitude even though most of their parents lived the rivalry and probably have instilled some of the negativity.

One thing about games of this nature is you can throw out records, for the most part. In true FBS level rivalry games you see it all the time when a lesser team pushes the better team to the limits (don't expect to see that this weekend Gopher fans, Hawkeyes will dominate!). There will be revenue generated IF the game is played at the right time of the year. Playing this as the last game of the year, at least initially won't bring the fans just because of who's playing. If either team is having a down year, the weather is bad, whatever, the fan base will be no different than for any other conference game we would play at that time of year.

As far as the open date, I trust the administration to be looking into all possibilities, while keeping USD in the mix, but also trying to make sure it is as beneficial as possible to SDSU. I don't see SDSU offering a big payout for USD to drive up I-29, but I expect they would ask for something since we are more established to this point.

Either way, discussion is always a good thing. Reality will be completely different when and if an announcement comes out.

[JimmyJack]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Here's one "observation". Is there a chance that since the current student base has never experienced an SDSU-USD game that some of the "hatred" and "childish fan antics" may not surface.

I hope you're right, but my experience talking to students every day suggests they have absorbed a lot of the bad feelings by osmosis around here. There are enough knee-jerk, "screw the u" types still on campus that it still exists.

I think an education campaign with our coaches and players urging fans to be respectful and to focus their attention on the field and not on the opposite stands would go a long way towards keeping a lid on the stupidity. Stig is a beloved figure on campus and a plea from him and from somebody like Kyle Minett would send a strong message.

[KUlawJack]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

I hope you're right, but my experience talking to students every day suggests they have absorbed a lot of the bad feelings by osmosis around here. There are enough knee-jerk, "screw the u" types still on campus that it still exists.

I think an education campaign with our coaches and players urging fans to be respectful and to focus their attention on the field and not on the opposite stands would go a long way towards keeping a lid on the stupidity. Stig is a beloved figure on campus and a plea from him and from somebody like Kyle Minett would send a strong message.

Its a good idea to do that to try to diffuse some of the eventual antics that will occur. An education campaign will only go so far though. This rivalry is over 100 years old and full of contempt and will always maintain some semblance of that emotion, IMO.

People keep saying we want to start this in a respectable manner. As alumni, we can definitely do these things and be welcoming in tailgating situations and the like, but I don't expect the students to do the same. It just isn't in the mentality of the student body to treat any disliked opponent with respect usually - it just doesn't work like that. This doesn't mean that individually students wouldn't interact appropriately, but I do expect them as a collective to act a little wild and perhaps somewhat offensively. Not saying its right, but I can guarantee this will be the case.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

I predict the dead animals will fly if/when the game is played again. <shakes head sadly>

[JACKGUYII]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

I have kind of changed my hard stand approach and now say bring on the Coyotes and all the pagentry and debauchery that goes along with it. IMHO, maybe things got out of control especially once we had announced the intention to move to DI, but I just don't have a problem with flying dead rabbits on the floor etc. Certainly the NDSU games have evolved into a nice rivalary, but nothing with the emotion and gravity of a SDSU-USD game. I want to see more passion at Frost and Coughlin and if it takes playing USD again and dealing with some of the shenanagans that go along with it so be it! I think some people need to get off their high horse. Let the ripping begin.

[JimmyJack]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

I have kind of changed my hard stand approach and now say bring on the Coyotes and all the pagentry and debauchery that goes along with it. IMHO, maybe things got out of control especially once we had announced the intention to move to DI, but I just don't have a problem with flying dead rabbits on the floor etc. Certainly the NDSU games have evolved into a nice rivalary, but nothing with the emotion and gravity of a SDSU-USD game. I want to see more passion at Frost and Coughlin and if it takes playing USD again and dealing with some of the shenanagans that go along with it so be it! I think some people need to get off their high horse. Let the ripping begin.

Passion is fine. Dead animals are not. How about my young son. Should he stay home so everybody can flip each other off and call each other names, display obscene drawings of rabbits and coyotes, and generally act stupid? When you've got an R-rated athletics rivalry, something's seriously wrong.

What's wrong with cheering FOR your team?

[zooropa]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

You will not see me argue the point that our schedule has been difficult. Perhaps to the point that it cost us a playoff spot last year. I will not concede to that thought, it is flawed, we should have beaten McNeese and the point would therefore be moot.

I know without a doubt that we will be viewed with less respect for settling for a game with a team that wanted to stay DII only 3 years ago. A team, despite the fact that they won at Cal-Poly, lost 66-7 to UNI, lost to UNC, and that has not proven itself at this level. I am not saying they won't prove themselves at this level. Much of our respect at this level has come from our willingness to play the best, to play them at their place, to aspire to be the best. Settling for a game with an institution that has no held us in a position of respect is not the same. Resign yourself to whatever you want, I am less willing to do so.

Brought over from the Purdue thread.

1) SDSU did not beat McNeese, did not get 8 wins, and did not make the playoffs. Whatever -may- have been possible, what actually happened was that a difficult schedule played a significant role in keeping SDSU out of the playoffs.

The school cannot rely on chance and the ability of the players to overcome a schedule more difficult than any of its competition.

Furthermore, unlike WBB, SDSU's respect has come from their 13-3 record against the Valley. WBB, I'll grant you, has earned respect by playing anyone, anywhere. But not so SDSU football. SDSU football has earned respect these last two years by the quality of their conference play (one very embarrassing game excepted). Think about it: What are SDSU's signature non-conf wins? Signature wins in conference?

2) Pollsters and selection committee members have short memories and little interest in the minutia of programs. In two years, the cancellation of the Delaware game for a game against USD will have been forgotten by everyone except for fans of schools that have "Dakota" in their names.

W-L is what's respected, not the caliber of the opponents. And I'm not being flip when I say that. Voters & the committee simply do not have the time or inclination to dig and dig and dig to get the back story behind a certain scheduled game.

Ask TV if he can name five starting players for #2 Villanova, if you want an idea of how little information circulates among the FCS, let alone if he can tell you why Villanova played East Overshoe Teacher's College instead of The Stan and Jeff Van Gundy School for Brothers Who Don't Look Like Each Other.

People in general won't care---

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Here's my antagonistic view on this issue.

Humans, in general, are classless a-holes, and have no problem displaying it in public, (I'm sure I've made a butt of myself in the past as well)especially when booze becomes involved. (Don't think I'll anywhere near the tailgating area of eventual USD/SDSU game.)

That's about how I expect the next USD vs. SDSU athletic event to go down as well.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Just a few notes. I think some SDSU fans underestimate the amount of fans that USD would bring to a game up in Brookings. USD's average attendance at home games has gone from somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000 per game to about 7,500 per game over the last decade or less and as USD gets more acclimated to FCS football the number should go up further. SDSU has also had a large increase in average attendance as well. If you want an idea of what you can expect from USD fans I will give a couple of examples.

For the Women's basketball championship in Kearney Nebraska USD had about 3,000 that went down to the game, which is about 2,000 more than I expected. In 2005 when USD played at Augie I would estimate there were about 3,000 USD fans at the game. In the past 500 was a closer estimate. I believe the total attendance was about 7,000. Last time USD and SDSU played in Brookings USD's program was simply not very good and the fan support wasn't very good either. The past couple of years in D1 the average crowds stayed in the 7,000 range at home despite having a very disinteresting schedule last season. When USD was towards the top of the NCC in football the last few years was when the attendance spiked. I have been hard on Meierort at times but ever since he took over the interst in Coyote football spiked quite a bit.

If the Yotes were able to get 3,000 for those two events and SDSU fans don't think USD cares about anything but comparing themselves to SDSU than you should expect quite a few Coyotes fans to be in the stands for 2011 and 2012 if those are indeed the years that the rivalry starts up again. I would expect anywhere in the neighborhood of a minimum of 3,000 Yote fans to be there but possibly as high as 5,000 assuming SDSU allows a huge overflow. I don't know how many NDSU has been bringing but I doubt it was too much more than 3,000. It would not surprise me if the game drew somewhere in the range of 18,000-20,000 (if allowed) with 4,000 of those being USD fans and another 14,000 Jacks fans. If the game was in September it would even further enhance the chances of a huge turnout.

The first game played in Vermillion would likely be a sellout because there would be interest from at least 3-4K SDSU fans and another 8,000-10,000 USD fans. It actually gives you chills thinking about either senario. Possibly 20K at Coughlin and as many as the Dakotadome could hold. The noise level in the Dakotadome would be at a fever pitch and with the new roof it would only hold the noise in even more. The internet participation has also helped boost the interest level from both schools which wasn't as big back in the D2 days. Fans that are further away geographically can now feel closer to the programs and with webcasts and more TV coverage it only helps as well.

Maybe at halftime Mick Garry and Terry Vandrovec could mud wrestle for beat writer bragging rights. :-)

[KUlawJack]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Just a few notes. I think some SDSU fans underestimate the amount of fans that USD would bring to a game up in Brookings.

You won't be getting that big of an allotment of tickets, keep that in mind. Hopefully Jacks fans will snag up all the GA (maybe we won't have that much by then because we will sell an outstanding number of season tickets next year) and keep the coyote fans out!

[Jacks99]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

Brought over from the Purdue thread.

1) SDSU did not beat McNeese, did not get 8 wins, and did not make the playoffs. Whatever -may- have been possible, what actually happened was that a difficult schedule played a significant role in keeping SDSU out of the playoffs.

The school cannot rely on chance and the ability of the players to overcome a schedule more difficult than any of its competition.

Furthermore, unlike WBB, SDSU's respect has come from their 13-3 record against the Valley. WBB, I'll grant you, has earned respect by playing anyone, anywhere. But not so SDSU football. SDSU football has earned respect these last two years by the quality of their conference play (one very embarrassing game excepted). Think about it: What are SDSU's signature non-conf wins? Signature wins in conference?

I agree and I think USD fits into the "average" FCS program not the elite that we have been scheduling: Cal Poly, McNeese, Delaware etc.

Since the DII games are gone, 8 wins with an FBS game is a very good record in the MVC. Not to mention it's more likely to get a few 2 for 1 games with the lower programs.

MVC+FBS+USD+(lower team of your choice, SELA perhaps) is a great schedule to get to the playoffs most years.

UNI'09 - Iowa/USD/St Francis - likely heading to the playoffs. If they lose a close game on the road to a McNeese, they would be sitting at home.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: USD at SDSU in 2011?

As far is a traveling trophy is concerned for the SDSU/USD football game, I don't really think it is necessary and feel it could cheapen the Dakota Marker in some regard... but if we do want to have a traveling trophy with USD, why limit it to just football. Here's what I'm thinking:

South Dakota is the Mount Rushmore State, so I think it would be appropriate to have the trophy be a sized down replica of Mount Rushmore... but this replica is actually multiple rivalry trophies in one!

Let say the football trophy is George Washington's head, The men's basketball trophy is Jefferson's head, the women's basketball trophy is Roosevelt's head, and lets say... volleyball is Lincoln's head. Also, each university can have a base that is made of stone that looks like the rest of Mount Rushmore in which the heads of the presidents fit perfectly in. Then people could walk by the trophy room and see how well one school has done against the other due to how many heads they have on their mountain!... and as a bonus, if either school holds all 4 heads at once, they get to carry the title of "South Dakota's Team" until they no longer have all 4 in their possession.

How sweet would it be to see our sports teams carry off a granite, basketball sized, presidents head after winning one of the marquee sporting events against our in-state rival!

The Headhunters Trophy