@CSU Rams 9/4/2021

[WestSideRabbit]

Here is my preview of CSU. I fully expect them to try and run the ball.
https://jackrabbitillustrated.blogsp...ado-state.html

[OldHare]

I would hope we can change the thread direction to include some insight to the Rams team and maybe some of those that have insight to the Jackrabbits might have some pregame information to share as well. Thank you to any who might provide that fodder for the board.

[jakejc795]

It appears to me you’re just looking either to fight or argue. The CSU AD was aware she was FULLY VACCINATED. Regarding the testing of players as per ncaa protocol, they are not to be tested prior to travel, a game, or a match UNLESS they show symptoms. So the young lady wouldn’t have tested prior to taking off for Colorado. How did I characterize it as illogical? Or a panicked response? Lastly the humiliation I refer to would be what I would feel if I felt responsible for my entire team being unable to compete. There was nothing about a guaranty. What said was if your football team traveled out there and a player tested positive. And CSU said they didn’t want to put their team at risk. I would assume you’d lose the guaranty money. Nothing was said about guaranty money for volleyball for crying out loud.

You just hate USD so bad you want to paint a negative image of them in any way you can. The fact that SDSU is paying Lindenwood to come play in your stadium was an administrative decision. Obviously your AD wanted another home game. I don’t blame him. The fact he contracted a team that doesn’t generate excitement from his fan base is on him.

You honestly don't remember posting this?

"This Covid thing stinks. We need to deal with it logically and not panic in my opinion."

NCAA protocols were followed, my hatred for USD notwithstanding, and I don't need to do anything for your "logic" and analysis to be seen in negative light when considered by those without 'Yote-colored glasses. Your eventual admission that you don't know the extent of testing that occurred and the nature of the post-positive contact tracing does that well enough.

My posts include supportive evidence, the objectivity of which isn't impacted by my 'Yote despisal. Conversely, yours focus on rumors and incomplete accounts from unnamed sources framed as facts. Want to change that? Name the source who told you what the CSU AD knows, the source who purportedly told you when this player began exhibiting symptoms, and the source who said this player was the sole individual impacted (or rather "who should have been impacted," lest you argue that now the entire team, USD Athletics, and 'Yote fans have been "impacted" by the absence of 'Yote VB games in Ft. Collins).

The reference to it being related to SDSU FB's guarantee must have been relegated to the same inner dialogue as the reference to "potentially," as it wasn't in your post having a general hypothetical.

What I really hate is people failing to take responsibility for incomplete "evidence" they've framed as facts without attribution, and I seem to recall you posting on here about a source you had at USD (an associate AD) who told you that there'd be no Summit title for MBB and that games would only be used for seeding), so maybe your sources should be questioned before attributing facts you disagree with to someone's hatred for your chosen team.

[yoteforever]

Thanks for the comments yfe. Insightful as usual.

‘Thanks for the compliment. I really would like to debate / discuss issues periodically and not fight.

[yoteforever]

It's rather self-serving for your source not to reveal whether others were potentially impacted while revealing the "fact" that the CSU AD was notified the player was vaccinated [plus it fails to consider that she might not have been "fully vaccinated" if she hadn't had final dose or 14 days hadn't elapsed since her final dose (pg. 2)]. Moreover, you're completely incorrect about vaccinated players not being tested. If they develop symptoms OR contact tracing risk assessments deem it necessary, they're still subject to testing (pg. 4), so this was in accordance with NCAA policy, yet somehow you're characterizing it as an illogical and a panicked response while operating on your admittedly incomplete account of circumstances.

The "revenue and excitement" guarantee games generate has been stridently debated among upper division officials (one reason conferences discontinue them), so I'm not sure what your basis for that assertion is [those same "upper division" officials commonly indicate it helps them fill schedules, and the Jacks are experiencing this first hand with the upcoming Lindenwood game (or do you think Jacks fans are brimming with excitement and gobbling up those tickets?)], and thank you for making my point about USD not losing a guarantee for VB. I should have been more explicit; the mention of her being humiliated vis a vis a lost guarantee payment obviously doesn't apply, and if folks were that concerned with humiliation, they wouldn't traffic in rumors about a player's positive test and vaccination status.

It appears to me you’re just looking either to fight or argue. The CSU AD was aware she was FULLY VACCINATED. Regarding the testing of players as per ncaa protocol, they are not to be tested prior to travel, a game, or a match UNLESS they show symptoms. So the young lady wouldn’t have tested prior to taking off for Colorado. How did I characterize it as illogical? Or a panicked response? Lastly the humiliation I refer to would be what I would feel if I felt responsible for my entire team being unable to compete. There was nothing about a guaranty. What said was if your football team traveled out there and a player tested positive. And CSU said they didn’t want to put their team at risk. I would assume you’d lose the guaranty money. Nothing was said about guaranty money for volleyball for crying out loud.

You just hate USD so bad you want to paint a negative image of them in any way you can. The fact that SDSU is paying Lindenwood to come play in your stadium was an administrative decision. Obviously your AD wanted another home game. I don’t blame him. The fact he contracted a team that doesn’t generate excitement from his fan base is on him.

[jakejc795]

I didn’t use word potentially as I reread my post. I was thinking of it when I did post.

No worries. I was thinking "I hope the Jacks thump the 'Yotes every time they play" as I read your post.

[jakejc795]

To be honest I’m not sure if they then tested the other players and coaches or not. I do know for a fact that the CSU AD was told prior to his official statement that the young lady had been vaccinated. If you know how the guaranty part of Athletics goes then you’d know that guaranties don’t exist in any sports other than football and men’s and women’s basketball.

Your idea on how to use guaranty monies to pay for testing and travel would assume the host school would pay out that money without having the benefit of hosting the team that’s guaranteed to create ticketing revenue to offset or partially offset those funds. To schools like ours that need guaranty money to make the budget work your plan would be beneficial. Unfortunately the schools writing those checks don’t do it to be nice. They do it to generate ticket revenue and create fan excitement and interest.

One last thought is ncaa protocol regarding testing. If you’ve been vaccinated you don’t need to be tested. The player was tested because she showed some cold like symptoms. Maybe this experience will force the ncaa to go back to testing. It’s very possible an athlete could have Covid and be asymptomatic. Thenbwhat?

The humiliation I brought up I used the word potentially. I don’t know how she feels but I would assume she feels awful. For the record, I wouldn’t want one of your kids to experience this either.

It's rather self-serving for your source not to reveal whether others were potentially impacted while revealing the "fact" that the CSU AD was notified the player was vaccinated [plus it fails to consider that she might not have been "fully vaccinated" if she hadn't had final dose or 14 days hadn't elapsed since her final dose (pg. 2)]. Moreover, you're completely incorrect about vaccinated players not being tested. If they develop symptoms OR contact tracing risk assessments deem it necessary, they're still subject to testing (pg. 4), so this was in accordance with NCAA policy, yet somehow you're characterizing it as an illogical and a panicked response while operating on your admittedly incomplete account of circumstances.

The "revenue and excitement" guarantee games generate has been stridently debated among upper division officials (one reason conferences discontinue them), so I'm not sure what your basis for that assertion is [those same "upper division" officials commonly indicate it helps them fill schedules, and the Jacks are experiencing this first hand with the upcoming Lindenwood game (or do you think Jacks fans are brimming with excitement and gobbling up those tickets?)], and thank you for making my point about USD not losing a guarantee for VB. I should have been more explicit; the mention of her being humiliated vis a vis a lost guarantee payment obviously doesn't apply, and if folks were that concerned with humiliation, they wouldn't traffic in rumors about a player's positive test and vaccination status.

[West-River_Jack]

Thanks for the comments yfe. Insightful as usual.

[yoteforever]

I didn’t use word potentially as I reread my post. I was thinking of it when I did post.

[yoteforever]

You and the 'Yote forum poster seem to conclude that said player is the only one impacted. You're certain further testing/tracing didn't impact other players'/coaches' availability?

If you're not, then that could be a reason CSU characterized it as they did. Another reason could be that USD didn't reveal the vaccination status of the player to CSU citing health privacy policies.

One way to reduce the humiliation you mentioned would be to pool the guaranteed money for games scheduled during the pandemic instead of paying it out; use a portion of the money for the host teams to pay for both teams' testing and visiting teams' travel; and allocate unused funds into interest-bearing accounts for future game guarantee payments. This could also address disparities in testing/tracing regimens among teams in different subdivisions.

Lastly, I'm familiar with FBS-FCS guarantee payments, but what, if anything, was the guarantee for USD VB?

To be honest I’m not sure if they then tested the other players and coaches or not. I do know for a fact that the CSU AD was told prior to his official statement that the young lady had been vaccinated. If you know how the guaranty part of Athletics goes then you’d know that guaranties don’t exist in any sports other than football and men’s and women’s basketball.

Your idea on how to use guaranty monies to pay for testing and travel would assume the host school would pay out that money without having the benefit of hosting the team that’s guaranteed to create ticketing revenue to offset or partially offset those funds. To schools like ours that need guaranty money to make the budget work your plan would be beneficial. Unfortunately the schools writing those checks don’t do it to be nice. They do it to generate ticket revenue and create fan excitement and interest.

One last thought is ncaa protocol regarding testing. If you’ve been vaccinated you don’t need to be tested. The player was tested because she showed some cold like symptoms. Maybe this experience will force the ncaa to go back to testing. It’s very possible an athlete could have Covid and be asymptomatic. Thenbwhat?

The humiliation I brought up I used the word potentially. I don’t know how she feels but I would assume she feels awful. For the record, I wouldn’t want one of your kids to experience this either.

[jakejc795]

The young lady that tested positive was fully vaccinated. She’s now dealing with disappointment and I’m sure humiliation. She did all she could. These kids bust their butts to compete and entertain us. They deserve better than this.

on a personal note I don’t think the AD from CSU threw us under the bus. But he did say that due to complications within the USD roster they wouldn’t play. That’s true BUT he also could’ve said that the player also was fully vaxed and it was out of her control. Some people could possibly interpret his quote as saying USD was careless. That isn’t the quote.

If you test on Thursday and one or two of your players test + and through contact tracing you can’t field a competitive team, not only will your forfeit, but also lose the $$$ guaranty. Think of how that kid would feel?

This Covid thing stinks. We need to deal with it logically and not panic in my opinion.

You and the 'Yote forum poster seem to conclude that said player is the only one impacted. You're certain further testing/tracing didn't impact other players'/coaches' availability?

If you're not, then that could be a reason CSU characterized it as they did. Another reason could be that USD didn't reveal the vaccination status of the player to CSU citing health privacy policies.

One way to reduce the humiliation you mentioned would be to pool the guaranteed money for games scheduled during the pandemic instead of paying it out; use a portion of the money for the host teams to pay for both teams' testing and visiting teams' travel; and allocate unused funds into interest-bearing accounts for future game guarantee payments. This could also address disparities in testing/tracing regimens among teams in different subdivisions.

Lastly, I'm familiar with FBS-FCS guarantee payments, but what, if anything, was the guarantee for USD VB?

[yoteforever]

The young lady that tested positive was fully vaccinated. She’s now dealing with disappointment and I’m sure humiliation. She did all she could. These kids bust their butts to compete and entertain us. They deserve better than this.

on a personal note I don’t think the AD from CSU threw us under the bus. But he did say that due to complications within the USD roster they wouldn’t play. That’s true BUT he also could’ve said that the player also was fully vaxed and it was out of her control. Some people could possibly interpret his quote as saying USD was careless. That isn’t the quote.

If you test on Thursday and one or two of your players test + and through contact tracing you can’t field a competitive team, not only will your forfeit, but also lose the $$$ guaranty. Think of how that kid would feel?

This Covid thing stinks. We need to deal with it logically and not panic in my opinion.

[jakejc795]

From the most reliable source, of course, the internet. One of the fans on the coyotes board made that statement.

The fan who also asserted the CSU AD threw the 'Yotes under the bus, I take it?

[jakejc795]

Tweet from a Yote Fan.

It's an interesting assertion to make, as it simultaneously "confirms" player was vaccinated while undermining vaccine efficacy among certain segments of Twittersphere. In other words both the "'Yotes are responsible, upstanding athletes" and "anti-vaxxers" can get a "win"

[jakejc795]

Hopefully the Jacks are no longer one of the least-vaccinated teams in the Valley. With the team that causes a game to be canceled being tagged with a loss, it could take a team out of playoff contention in a hurry if a few positive tests occur.

That's for conference games, but are we sure that's how non-conference, not to mention FBS-FCS contests, would be recorded?