Lujan or Christion?

[goon]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

If he struggles to pass the ball, I'll be very surprised, but I'll certainly admit I was wrong. Have you seen some of the throws he's made so far? A couple of them were balls that Lujan would have had no chance to complete. Lujan's best ability as a passer was lofting it up and hoping his receiver was able to go get it. Which worked for him, but TC is a more talented passer.

A stronger arm doesn't mean more talented passer. Can he read his checks and do all the things a good passer can do? Its yet to be seen.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

I believe TC can win some games for State but he can also lose some with mistakes.

Lujan won't necessarily win games for State but he wont lose them either.

TC gives State more options and is much more dynamic, especially against pressure (see NDSU). I vote for TC....I think. Glad I'm not the coach.

[Nidaros]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

I think TC is doing very well for a rookie. I had no idea he was this great of a talent. Until they crush the hell of him and he is still able to play, I look for him to be the man. Give Lujan a few more weeks to heal.

[Kemo]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

One of the huge positives Taryn adds to the offense is how his ability to run limits backside defenders crashing down on our running backs after a hand off, which helps our running game as a whole. A lot more running lanes open up when defenders have to stay at home on the weakside, but with Lujan's limited mobility, these defenders don't have to maintain their integrity. There is no doubt this helped Kyle Paris set a career high in rushing and TDs against a pretty good Youngstown defense.

I'm in the camp of starting TC for the rest of the year, but there is no doubt there are areas in which Lujan has an edge on Christion. Zach seems to have a better understanding about how much separation is needed for a player to be considered "open" as opposed to Taryn, especially when it comes to Jake Wieneke. I think that is one of the reasons (besides MVFC teams using more bracket coverage than OOC teams) that Jake's production is down a little with Taryn under center. The fact is, if Jake is single covered, he is basically open, especially over the top. That's another thing Zach does well: He puts enough touch on the ball to give his receivers a chance to make a play and therefore doesn't have to place the ball as accurately as he would have if he threw more of a line drive.

Of course, Zach's advantages are mostly intangibles, and can be learned with more experience, and that is why I think we need to stick with Christion moving forward. Not only does TC possess physical traits that you can't teach, he also seems to have the intelligence and instincts to go along with that considering he is legitimately ready to play this early in his career. Once his talent and experience line up, this kid could be scary (if he isn't already).

[CappinHard]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

I believe TC can win some games for State but he can also lose some with mistakes.

Lujan won't necessarily win games for State but he wont lose them either.

TC gives State more options and is much more dynamic, especially against pressure (see NDSU). I vote for TC....I think. Glad I'm not the coach.

I'll take the guy that can win some games and will make an eventual mistake (although I'm not sure why you're saying he can lose some with mistakes... has he made any yet? You're assuming that since he's a freshman, he'll make mistakes). I beg to differ on Lujan not losing games. Against Mo. St. last year, he had 2 INTs, then against UNI he had 3 INTs... We should have lost both of those games.

[Jacked4Days]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

In Zach Lujan's defense, he is head and shoulders above last year. He is no slouch if we need to revert to him this season.

[Kemo]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

In Zach Lujan's defense, he is head and shoulders above last year. He is no slouch if we need to revert to him this season.

Agreed. Zach made a lot of progress from last year to this year. He still is very good QB, just more physically limited than others.

[westernjack]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

One of the huge positives Taryn adds to the offense is how his ability to run limits backside defenders crashing down on our running backs after a hand off, which helps our running game as a whole. A lot more running lanes open up when defenders have to stay at home on the weakside, but with Lujan's limited mobility, these defenders don't have to maintain their integrity. There is no doubt this helped Kyle Paris set a career high in rushing and TDs against a pretty good Youngstown defense.

I'm in the camp of starting TC for the rest of the year, but there is no doubt there are areas in which Lujan has an edge on Christion. Zach seems to have a better understanding about how much separation is needed for a player to be considered "open" as opposed to Taryn, especially when it comes to Jake Wieneke. I think that is one of the reasons (besides MVFC teams using more bracket coverage than OOC teams) that Jake's production is down a little with Taryn under center. The fact is, if Jake is single covered, he is basically open, especially over the top. That's another thing Zach does well: He puts enough touch on the ball to give his receivers a chance to make a play and therefore doesn't have to place the ball as accurately as he would have if he threw more of a line drive.

Of course, Zach's advantages are mostly intangibles, and can be learned with more experience, and that is why I think we need to stick with Christion moving forward. Not only does TC possess physical traits that you can't teach, he also seems to have the intelligence and instincts to go along with that considering he is legitimately ready to play this early in his career. Once his talent and experience line up, this kid could be scary (if he isn't already).

This right here. Defenses have to have one defender per play stay at home and respect the quarterback keeping the ball. They didn't have to do that with Zach.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

Pretty well covered, but several points that I think have been overlooked. In discussing the "star" ratings, nobody has mentioned that Christion broke his leg and didn't play his senior year...that makes a huge difference in the so-called ratings, who ranked him as a junior. Second, Wieneke was doubled (hard) on every play at Youngstown, so despite the pressure, and it was huge, he was seldom open at all. Finally. Through the first four games, Youngstown was giving up 85 yards passing a game, leading FCS...so you might want to consider that fact.

As for Lujan, my understanding is that he probably won't be ready for another week or two, but when he is 100%, I expect him to get the start, regardless of the fan board voting. However, I expect it to be open competition for playing time and future starts.

[Hareofthedog]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

All the Oline critics should relax and think about the whole process of the passing game protection. It's not as simple as just blocking to be successful in the passing game. The play calls by the OC. Call some quicker release pass routes, call more crossing routes, TE right away, swing passes. The QB is in shotgun so throwing quicker can happen easier than under center. Experience will help the QB get rid of the ball but the play call and audible is important. The receivers and ends must get separation and get open. Blitzes need to be picked up by RB and TE or QB must read it and get the pass off. The Oline can only block so many defenders and then it's up to the QB/receivers to make a play. Five seconds is fine for pass protection. QB can roll, step up in the pocket as well. Watch the line play for awhile and you might appreciate the work they do play after play

[Nidaros]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

Second, Wieneke was doubled (hard) on every play at Youngstown, so despite the pressure, and it was huge, he was seldom open at all. Finally. Through the first four games, Youngstown was giving up 85 yards passing a game, leading FCS...so you might want to consider that fact.

As for Lujan, my understanding is that he probably won't be ready for another week or two, but when he is 100%, I expect him to get the start, regardless of the fan board voting. However, I expect it to be open competition for playing time and future starts.

I edit your quote as I wanted to comment on Wieneke and Lujan. I notice a great deal of double coverage and you can expect that for the rest of the season. Lujan should get his chance once he is healthy and agree my vote don't count on this decision.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

When Lujan is healthy, I think he will start. But he will not be allowed many mistakes.

[CappinHard]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

When Lujan is healthy, I think he will start. But he will not be allowed many mistakes.

Why even open this can of worms if you're the coaching staff though? Just so they can hold on to the "you don't lose your job to injury" moniker? As I stated before, doing this simply wouldn't be fair to Lujan. Every single mistake he makes, you're going to hear calls for TC reign down onto the field. I honestly think that if they would have saved the red shirt and started Douglas, Lujan would already be back in the lineup. Stig even said during the ISUb game that if they really needed Lujan, he could play. If the coaching staff was short-sighted enough to burn a red shirt year and not plan to leave TC in if he performs well, then we've got problems. We could have beat ISUb with Douglas, and Lujan could have likely played against YSU if we needed him. I really hope I'm right about all of this.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

Why even open this can of worms if you're the coaching staff though? Just so they can hold on to the "you don't lose your job to injury" moniker? As I stated before, doing this simply wouldn't be fair to Lujan. Every single mistake he makes, you're going to hear calls for TC reign down onto the field. I honestly think that if they would have saved the red shirt and started Douglas, Lujan would already be back in the lineup. Stig even said during the ISUb game that if they really needed Lujan, he could play. If the coaching staff was short-sighted enough to burn a red shirt year and not plan to leave TC in if he performs well, then we've got problems. We could have beat ISUb with Douglas, and Lujan could have likely played against YSU if we needed him. I really hope I'm right about all of this.

I think you open a bigger can of worms if you go back on your word of "you don't lose your spot to injury." Could really damage the player-coach and player-player relationships across the whole team.

As it is, Lujan believes that it is in his best interest to help TC (Lujan will take over a playoff contender when he gets back). If Lujan thinks his starting job is in jeopardy, he could get jealous of TC and quit helping. Or worse he could actively subvert the coaching staff in the locker room. Sticking to your word is one way to avoid locker room cancers.

You have a sort of social contract on the football team, if you start messing with that bad things can start to happen.

Basically, I believe it is important that players believe when their coaches say, "trust me." They have said you don't lose your spot to injury, and it would be more damaging to the season to go back on that - especially when Lujan has proven to be capable if not as electric as TC. TC will get his opportunity, and we are in a great spot for the hunt for playoffs.

Just my $.02, I could be wrong.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Lujan or Christion?

TC is electric, a great athlete no doubt.

The thing I think a lot of poster are getting caught up in is his flash and potential. There is a lot more to being a QB than being a great athlete and throwing "lasers". At this point I think Lujan is likely the better QB. Does that mean he's a better option? I don't know and no one on this board knows either.

At any rate I don't think we are national title contenders with either at the helm.