Summit League to Visit USD

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

What are the alternatives? Have a static league that loses members from time to time, and only adds members when another school leaves.

I think--provided USD has a sound financial plan in place (and donor support)--they're a shoo in.

I think the alternative is a league that makes strategic moves, and not one that makes a knee jerk reaction to SIUE getting an OVC offer. Again, I'm not saying that USD doesn't get an offer, I just don't think it is a "shoo in."


BTW - is it "shoo in" or "shoe in"? I don't know and have seen it both ways.

[jackmd]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think the alternative is a league that makes strategic moves, and not one that makes a knee jerk reaction to SIUE getting an OVC offer. Again, I'm not saying that USD doesn't get an offer, I just don't think it is a "shoo in."


BTW - is it "shoo in" or "shoe in"? I don't know and have seen it both ways.

If Stu says they are in, its obvious that they are in. Get with the program. I now rely on Stu for my stock tips, weather forecast and predictions about my wife's mood when I get home from work (wait a second, maybe thats why I'm wearing shorts today, my portfolio is down 40% and I'm sleeping at the office).

[KUlawJack]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

If Stu says they are in, its obvious that they are in. Get with the program. I now rely on Stu for my stock tips, weather forecast and predictions about my wife's mood when I get home from work (wait a second, maybe thats why I'm wearing shorts today, my portfolio is down 40% and I'm sleeping at the office).

Zing!

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think the alternative is a league that makes strategic moves, and not one that makes a knee jerk reaction to SIUE getting an OVC offer. Again, I'm not saying that USD doesn't get an offer, I just don't think it is a "shoo in."


BTW - is it "shoo in" or "shoe in"? I don't know and have seen it both ways.

Pretty sure it's 'shoo in'.

Also, as I've mentioned before, USD is a sound strategic move, looking long term:

1) Is USD going to be perpetually on the make for a better offer, or are they going to commit to the Summit?

2) Why is it assumed that USD won't make good in the Summit?

3) Apart from athletics, USD is a respectable and established school. And in terms of athletics, USD draws well.

Recruiting talent with those factors in its favor is a question of staffing, USD doesn't need a major institutional overhaul to be attractive to D-1 talent.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

The Summit League needs to anchor around a group of schools that have a lot in common. There are 4 schools, all along I-29, with 90+ years of playing each other. What's to think that this doesn't happen when the time is right?

The only issue IMHO, is now the right time? For USD, it may be. Nice lil wake-up call to our Northern Native Americans.

Is any other school being visited? You'd think bringing in two would be better than one.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think USD and UND will both eventually be added, which would bring in divisional play to help cut travel a bit.

I also think adding UND and USD help with the long term goal of tightening the league's footprint.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

It seems like when we say things like: "It's good for the conference" or "It improves travel", what we really mean is that it's good for US and it improves OUR travel costs. It's very easy to slip into thinking that what's good for the xDSUs and the UxDs is the same as what's best for entire Summit. It's not. What we need to ask is whether adding the UxDs is good for the Indiana schools, or Oakland, or ORU, or SUU, or Centenary. Is adding 3-6 additional trips to the Dakotas each year(all sports combined) something they want to do? Also, do they really want to split the NCAA MBB money pie another two ways?

Sure, there are some good reasons to add the UxDs, but there are also some good reasons not to. And those reasons are more than just retribution-based. Before you say USD(and/or UND) is a sure thing, put yourself in the shoes of the other eight Summit presidents and see if the deal looks as good from their perspective.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Pretty sure it's 'shoo in'.

Also, as I've mentioned before, USD is a sound strategic move, looking long term:

1) Is USD going to be perpetually on the make for a better offer, or are they going to commit to the Summit?

2) Why is it assumed that USD won't make good in the Summit?

3) Apart from athletics, USD is a respectable and established school. And in terms of athletics, USD draws well.

Recruiting talent with those factors in its favor is a question of staffing, USD doesn't need a major institutional overhaul to be attractive to D-1 talent.

1. Nobody knows that answer
2. Never assumed that, you assumed I thought that.
3. Yep, I've got a degree from there.

And still, the arguments put forth for it being a shoo in are from the perspective of what it could do for SDSU, and to an extent NDSU. Like I said before that is only 2 votes. Getting the conference geographically centered cuts both ways. Some schools may see that as a disadvantage as other conferences change membership. I am guessing Denver is an example that no school wants to find themselves in. So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

[propar80]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

It seems like when we say things like: "It's good for the conference" or "It improves travel", what we really mean is that it's good for US and it improves OUR travel costs. It's very easy to slip into thinking that what's good for the xDSUs and the UxDs is the same as what's best for entire Summit. It's not. What we need to ask is whether adding the UxDs is good for the Indiana schools, or Oakland, or ORU, or SUU, or Centenary. Is adding 3-6 additional trips to the Dakotas each year(all sports combined) something they want to do? Also, do they really want to split the NCAA MBB money pie another two ways?

Sure, there are some good reasons to add the UxDs, but there are also some good reasons not to. And those reasons are more than just retribution-based. Before you say USD(and/or UND) is a sure thing, put yourself in the shoes of the other eight Summit presidents and see if the deal looks as good from their perspective.

Great point that hasn't been brought up enough Hammer. As I was walking out of Frost the other night into the -25 degree windchill, I wondered how long it would take ORU to "move on" once they have to make four trips up here a year??

Let's not fall back into the D-II/NCC way of thinking that, what's good for XDSU's/UXD's is good for the whole conference. It maybe...but I'm not so sure the other 8 teams in the conference agree...I guess we'll see.

Personally, the day the Summit resembles a conference that has 10 teams in two/three states like the old D-II days, is the day the MVC will look REALLY good to me.

That's just me though....as I've stated on this board many times, I've only been a Jackrabbit fan for about 5 years now, and it isn't because I hoped with the move to D-I SDSU would be playing in a conference like the NCC someday. Maybe the competitiveness, but certainly not the "closeness".

Go Jacks!!

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

It seems like when we say things like: "It's good for the conference" or "It improves travel", what we really mean is that it's good for US and it improves OUR travel costs. It's very easy to slip into thinking that what's good for the xDSUs and the UxDs is the same as what's best for entire Summit. It's not. What we need to ask is whether adding the UxDs is good for the Indiana schools, or Oakland, or ORU, or SUU, or Centenary. Is adding 3-6 additional trips to the Dakotas each year(all sports combined) something they want to do? Also, do they really want to split the NCAA MBB money pie another two ways?

Sure, there are some good reasons to add the UxDs, but there are also some good reasons not to. And those reasons are more than just retribution-based. Before you say USD(and/or UND) is a sure thing, put yourself in the shoes of the other eight Summit presidents and see if the deal looks as good from their perspective.

1) Is adding the Dakota schools good for the Eastern schools? Yes. A conference with a stable western core and a stable eastern core can support two divisions which reduces travel costs on both sides.

2) Is adding the Dakota schools good for the Eastern schools? Yes. Attendance, attendance, attendance. You try and build a competitive program with lousy attendance. What blue-chip recruit is wants to play in front of empty bleachers in arena after arena?

3) Is adding the Dakota schools good for the Eastern schools? Yes. In time, those schools will improve the standing of the conference. Maybe not right away, but any president that has a long-term outlook recognizes that USD & UND improve the academic stature of the conference.

In short, the options to the east are extremely limited, to the far west and south as much or more so (UTPA? UVU?).

Adding USD & UND make long term sense on the following grounds:

- Flagship institutions that have solid academic reputations
- Potential W. core for a two division conference
- Extensive media coverage for their programs
- Attendance

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

And another point that deserves its own post:

Every argument advanced against USD membership applied with even greater force to NDSU & SDSU.

---

YET, the Summit presidents voted to invite NDSU & SDSU INSTEAD of SUU's next door neighbor UVU, and UTPA (which is reasonably close to Centenary).

The Summit presidents voted for quality over travel expediency and I expect the same to continue, hence my insistence that, if USD's ducks are in a row, they're a shoo-in.

[2002jack]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

And another point that deserves its own post:

Every argument advanced against USD membership applied with even greater force to NDSU & SDSU.

---

YET, the Summit presidents voted to invite NDSU & SDSU INSTEAD of SUU's next door neighbor UVU, and UTPA (which is reasonably close to Centenary).

The Summit presidents voted for quality over travel expediency and I expect the same to continue, hence my insistence that, if USD's ducks are in a row, they're a shoo-in.

Why increase membership, you only get one tournament team a year. 1/10 chance is worse than 1/11 or 1/12.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Why increase membership, you only get one tournament team a year. 1/10 chance is worse than 1/11 or 1/12.

MONEY..... The tournament is selling tickets at almost a 3-1 ratio as it has in the past... you add 2 schools in the region you will sell it out every night....... It looks like unless the facilities are a huge burden, the tournament will be in Sioux Falls for a while....

Also you want to add schools who aren't going to look at leaving at first chance, looking at USD and UND, and even a Denver if they become members they aren't going to be looking for the next ladder leading to a different place....

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Why increase membership, you only get one tournament team a year. 1/10 chance is worse than 1/11 or 1/12.

So the goal is to remain, perpetually, a conference that only puts one team in the tournament?

If so, keeping out two flagship schools that draw is a great way of accomplishing that.

Adding the UxDs does complicate the conference RPI situation. I will grant you that.

However, take a look at SDSU's women's program:

Are they counting on their conference schedule to get them a decent seed in the NCAAs?

No. They're doing it with their OOC schedule.

Already, this season you had IPFW dang near beating Michigan State. IUPUI almost beat Indiana and Arizona State (lost those two games by a total of 4 points) and beat Seton Hall. Oral Roberts beat Central Florida.

The best way for the Summit to improve its conference RPI, for now, is by OOC scheduling. Not by the strength of the conference itself.

---

Point is, the goal should be 2 Summit schools in the NCAAs on a fairly regular basis, and while adding the UxDs makes that diffiult, it in no way makes it impossible.

[90Jackrabbit]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

A quote from Joel Nielsen in the Argus article.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...22/1002/sports

"Q: The Summit League visit will include a rather comprehensive look at USD and its operations. Is there a lot of prep work involved right now on campus?

A: President (James) Abbott made the commitment early on, making it clear that this was a priority for the athletic department and the university. That fits in well with the theme he'd already established on this - that the move to Division I is not just an athletic move. That position, held by the president and the senior administration, has been critical in the planning process. It has been quite a challenge putting everything together in a few weeks given the complexity of the schedule, but we feel good where we are right now."


When Joel Nielsen says "it has been quite a challenge putting everything together in a few weeks" doesn't it sound like USD is a little bit surprised by the quickness of the Summit League visit. I still have a hunch that somebody in the conference might be moving. I know that Centenary re-upped its commitment to the conference last summer but endowments are worth significantly less now than they were last summer, and the economic crap isn't done hitting the fan. No inside information from me, just a hunch.