Summit League to Visit USD

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Having attended three commuter D1 schools: Georgia State, UWM and (transitional) SIUE, I think there's no doubt that the UxD's would, of course, draw more and probably help the Summit--frankly I never attended a game at any of those schools, nor knew anyone else who did.

However, I'd prefer any play be put off for several years. I was shooting for mid-twenties but I'd settle for a decade from now. Let's let the whole thing die down-- what's wrong with them staying in the Great West?

Don't you think there's a good chance that the xDSU's would try to veto any such membership move? Attendance isn't everything.

As far as veto, I think that the XDSU's will follow the other universities and then use it as cover by saying its what the established members in the conference wanted.... I don't see a 6-4 vote.... i think it'll be 8-2/10-0 which ever way it goes down....

Also financially the XDSU's can't be against it, it would take 2/4 games away (depending on if USD or both UXD's are allowed in) and make 1/2 well attended home games and 1/2 short bus trips....

[91jack]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

The Bisonator has the league's average attendance at 2,258 so far this year, which is decent and an improvement from last year. At least in Fargo, league games are starting to match what we got for NCC games on the men's side.

On the women's side I think the league would do all teams a huge favor if they stopped playing Monday games, I really like the idea of mirror scheduling(men are on the road, women are at home). NDSU would do itself a favor if it would go back to playing doubleheaders, but the school seems set against it.

This is 1 up for SDSU. NDSU is 1 up on putting the football game on TV. Next weekend when NDSU comes to town, the basketball games will be on KSFY so maybe SDSU is coming around. We'll see when they play football next year.

AJ doesn't like all league games as doubleheaders. He thinks that makes the Women's game the undercard. I don't understand that because about as many people show up for the Women's game as the Men's game. There were 200 more people at the Men's game but I'm sure they don't keep track of how many people left. He says it's about right the way it is.

SDSU charges $11 for a single home game. It's $15 for a doubleheader. That makes it easier to try to bring your family. The mirror schedule wouldn't work for as many people(my opinion). Plus the thing about a writer seeing both games wouldn't work. That way you'd have to drive to Brookings twice a week every week. There are several fans that live 60 miles away. By the time you drive both ways for 1 game, you spend as much time in the car as watching the game.
A family of 4 could easily spend $50 each night($30+-tickets, 4-pops/waters-$12, hot dogs/ice cream/pizza- $12-20). That doesn't include 4 gallons of gas to get there and back. I'm not saying that people won't show up because it's worth it and it's not much more than going several other places. I think it would factor on though.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Let's let the whole thing die down-- what's wrong with them staying in the Great West?

Don't you think there's a good chance that the xDSU's would try to veto any such membership move? Attendance isn't everything.

1) Great West has no autobid status, nor is it ever likely to have one.

2) If the timeline for inclusion is the 2011/2012 academic year, with staffing and facility stipulations, both the xDSU presidents will vote for acceptance.

IMO, I WELCOME the addition of USD to the Summit. In the interests of diplomacy, I'm not going to say what I think of other opinions on the subject. Instead, I'll say simply, that USD would be a solid addition to the Summit and leave it at that. (By the same token, I do not feel the same way about USD & the Valley football conference).

I will also venture to guess that with reasonable expectations regarding staffing and financial commitment on the part of USD, Chicoine feels the same way.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

AJ doesn't like all league games as doubleheaders. He thinks that makes the Women's game the undercard.

I agree in part, as the women's game becomes the game that people don't mind being late for, etc.

I think moving up the start time would help, but the flip side is that you then end up moving the end of the MBB game to 10:00 or later.

What I would -=prefer=- is a "Basketball Night in Brookings" approach with contests beginning at 4:30, and with SOME KIND OF ENTERTAINMENT between games. Man alive, I can't stand that 40-50 minute gap between the MBB & WBB games, as there's NOTHING TO DO except stand in line to buy (and then eat) overpriced arena food (ice cream excepted).

I do think that by giving fans an incentive to show up early for the WBB game, it will take away the 'under card' status.

Doing something to get fans in early, over time, IMO, will bring more people on board with the idea that WBB is a peer to MBB, and not 'something that we do for the girls....'

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think with the current popularity of the women's game you could flip around who plays the first game of a doubleheader. I don't know if that would work in most places as many would watch the mens game and leave.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think with the current popularity of the women's game you could flip around who plays the first game of a doubleheader. I don't know if that would work in most places as many would watch the mens game and leave.

At SDSU, I think the status quo just needs some tweaking.

At the other schools, as I posted on TV's blog, frankly, their attitude toward their WBB program stinks, and I would go so far as to include NDSU in that.

You've got this "it's Monday's fault" attitude that ain't worth a hill of beans, IMO.

Some at NDSU want Thursday night games, which is a patently ridiculous idea because they don't do doubleheaders. So what's supposed to happen? The women's game starts at 2:00 like it does on Saturday? Gee. That'll be a real boon to attendance.

Then you've got the "well, let's do it Tuesday" attitude which is a great attitude, assuming that you don't mind your student athletes missing ANOTHER day of class every week they're on the road. And that for the iffy prospect that more people will attend Tuesday than Monday.

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IMO the problem, long and short, is PROMOTION. What on earth is UMKC doing to GET people to a game on Monday night? Are they investing in quality coaching? Are they improving their product on the court? Are they giving, in short, ANY VALID REASON, for students to show up? For casual fans to show up?

Exactly.

You can't treat WBB as an afterthought, let an iffy coach get by recruiting questionable talent and then turn around and say "Monday games are ruining our attendance" when your product ain't worth watching in the first place.

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Then in places like Oakland, what exactly are they doing to promote their product? I mean, if Oakland parlays things right, they've got a shot to help establish the Summit as more than a 'one team wonder' when it comes to WBB, but what are they doing to draw people in?

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you want to blame the day of the week, it's because you don't want to admit you're not doing enough to promote your product (or make your product worth promoting).

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In short, Monday night games are best for the STUDENT part of student athlete, as it minimizes the number of schooldays missed on road trips (Friday, Monday, Tuesday).

So, if you, Mr. Athletic Director, don't like Monday games, go look in the mirror. You'll be looking at the person responsible for the poor attendance on Monday nights.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

At SDSU, I think the status quo just needs some tweaking.

At the other schools, as I posted on TV's blog, frankly, their attitude toward their WBB program stinks, and I would go so far as to include NDSU in that.

You've got this "it's Monday's fault" attitude that ain't worth a hill of beans, IMO.

Some at NDSU want Thursday night games, which is a patently ridiculous idea because they don't do doubleheaders. So what's supposed to happen? The women's game starts at 2:00 like it does on Saturday? Gee. That'll be a real boon to attendance.

Then you've got the "well, let's do it Tuesday" attitude which is a great attitude, assuming that you don't mind your student athletes missing ANOTHER day of class every week they're on the road. And that for the iffy prospect that more people will attend Tuesday than Monday.

---

IMO the problem, long and short, is PROMOTION. What on earth is UMKC doing to GET people to a game on Monday night? Are they investing in quality coaching? Are they improving their product on the court? Are they giving, in short, ANY VALID REASON, for students to show up? For casual fans to show up?

Exactly.

You can't treat WBB as an afterthought, let an iffy coach get by recruiting questionable talent and then turn around and say "Monday games are ruining our attendance" when your product ain't worth watching in the first place.

----

Then in places like Oakland, what exactly are they doing to promote their product? I mean, if Oakland parlays things right, they've got a shot to help establish the Summit as more than a 'one team wonder' when it comes to WBB, but what are they doing to draw people in?

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you want to blame the day of the week, it's because you don't want to admit you're not doing enough to promote your product (or make your product worth promoting).

----

In short, Monday night games are best for the STUDENT part of student athlete, as it minimizes the number of schooldays missed on road trips (Friday, Monday, Tuesday).

So, if you, Mr. Athletic Director, don't like Monday games, go look in the mirror. You'll be looking at the person responsible for the poor attendance on Monday nights.

Mondays Stinks.... everybody knows that, but at the same point what night works better?
Tuesday-big high school night
Wednesday-big NAIA and D-II night in the area (hard to get officials)
Thursday-big high school night + Men's night (double/double headers?)
Friday- maybe, but nobody wants to play Friday/Saturday.... part of D-I is getting rid of those
Saturday- already play....
Sunday- ya maybe if you can get by the religious concerns...

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Don't you think there's a good chance that the xDSU's would try to veto any such membership move? Attendance isn't everything.

I'm not sure that veto is the way I would put it, and I think Zooropa is correct in that Dr. Chicoine would support USD if the right things are in place (which may be the biggest if out of all of this, but that is a different discussion). But I do think support may be affected by the need for a consensus. I do not know what the requirements are for extending an offer, but I cannot believe that any of the presidents would want to extend an offer based on a 6-4 vote.

Lets say the vote is 6-4 for extending an offer. If two of the six votes were the newest members of the conference, some of the established teams may "see the writing on the wall" and start exploring their options. That would be devastating for the conference as it needs stability more than anything else. If the two new votes were in the four against the offer, my guess is that they would move to the other side to get a larger consensus.

So you then need to try and figure out who would vote for or against. If it makes sense to SDSU to add USD because of travel, etc. would it make sense for SUU to want to add them? Maybe, maybe not, but it would not be very surprising to see two of the southern team not to want to make another long trip north. That would put the vote at 2-2; and a need for USD to get 5 of the remaining six votes. I don't know if they can get that by March UNLESS there are other sites visited that don't measure up to USD.

I can see the reasons why SDSU and NDSU would want to commit to another close conference member, but I can also see reasons why the other conference members would not want to make that commitment.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Sunday- ya maybe if you can get by the religious concerns...

Well, that and it kills Saturday doubleheaders. If you're going to have the girls play Sunday, then (with the area this league covers) you've got to give them Friday nights.

It would be unfair to slam the girls with back to back league nights when you give the guys a day of travel.

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BTW, I'd like to think we weren't fighting with the NAIA for officials. I'd pay extra for tickets if it went to better officials.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

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BTW, I'd like to think we weren't fighting with the NAIA for officials. I'd pay extra for tickets if it went to better officials.

Based off their performance alone, I think it's pretty safe to say we are fighting with the NAIA for officials.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I can also see reasons why the other conference members would not want to make that commitment.

What are the alternatives? Have a static league that loses members from time to time, and only adds members when another school leaves.

I think--provided USD has a sound financial plan in place (and donor support)--they're a shoo in.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Based off their performance alone, I think it's pretty safe to say we are fighting with the NAIA for officials.

Like I said, I'll pay more for better officials. And I'll be HAPPY to do so.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Friday- maybe, but nobody wants to play Friday/Saturday.... part of D-I is getting rid of those

Friday-Saturday were possible in the old NCC days, but you can't do it in a D-1 League that is spread from Oakland Michigan, to Southern Utah. The teams have to have a travel day on a number of occasions, so no Friday/Saturday schedule works.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Well, that and it kills Saturday doubleheaders. If you're going to have the girls play Sunday, then (with the area this league covers) you've got to give them Friday nights.

It would be unfair to slam the girls with back to back league nights when you give the guys a day of travel.

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BTW, I'd like to think we weren't fighting with the NAIA for officials. I'd pay extra for tickets if it went to better officials.

I don't know how college officials work. I figured that the school was responsible for some and the league helped. My guess would be in South Dakota, if we where to get a regional official he/she will also work NAIA games..... I'm not saying that we are fighting with them, but the NAIA does almost always double headers with different refs, thats 6 refs a night per game and in the NAIA that means there could be 3 games in the region that 18 refs.... Now to say that we would have problems getting the refs may be a stretch.....

At the same time though, I'll make this argument, there are high school officials in South Dakota who could ref D-I and do as good as job as some of the D-I officials.... just because a guy is a NAIA official doesn't mean hes a bad official.... In every level of every sport there will be good refs/umps/officials, and there will be bad ones...

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

All the referees for the Summit League teams (and most other D-1 conferences) are handled by an NCAA organization that takes care of all of the details. SDSU (like others) has no involvement in the process. The schools furnish their schedules and then all referees are assigned, with travel details, reimbursement, etc. handled centrally.