The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

[QUOTE=West-River_Jack;81354]

Now, to my point. All of the good teams stayed and only a couple of weak teams left so the quality of the seven-team conference didn't suffer, only the quantity. Time will tell if the quality can be maintained when USD and UND take the place of SDSU and NDSU. QUOTE]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm. I'll take the bait.

The quality will most definitely go down. Any way you slice it, USD and UND just aren't of the caliber of SDSU and NDSU.

It's just the truth.

SUPERBUNNY

[mmiller_34]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

[QUOTE=HoboD;81228]Coyote dude:
I am perplexed by you. For the life of me, I cant figure out why you spend so much time on this site. QUOTE]

Answer: coyote fan is a closet jackrabbit fan.. he just hasnt made that transistion to openly announcing his jackrabbit love yet.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Obviously, when the conference was formed it had seven members which is a better situation than five members. With the departure of St. Mary's before a game was ever played and Northern Colorado after only one (or was it two) year the numbers didn't look nearly as good. But take a look at what was there before and after those departures. At the beginning it would have been predicted to be a conference of four pretty good teams including SDSU, NDSU, Cal-Poly and UC Davis and three pretty week teams in Northern Colorado, SUU and St. Mary's. (I'm fiddling a bit with history here because I would have predicted Northern Colorado to have been better than they actually turned out to be and I really would have placed SDSU right in the middle of the pack instead of near the top - but after a few seasons we see what actually was.)

Now, to my point. All of the good teams stayed and only a couple of weak teams left so the quality of the seven-team conference didn't suffer, only the quantity. Time will tell if the quality can be maintained when USD and UND take the place of SDSU and NDSU. I know that others have speculated about this and will continue to do so. I don't consider myself a football expert so I will choose not to participate in such speculation.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Jimmy Jack,

Decent post and I will bring up one thing. Just to clarify my opinion I respect the teams in the Great West and definately think the teams are tough and could make for some good rivalries. I simply don't think the league is a legit league because of the small number of teams. If USD were to win the title I would obviously be happy about it but wouldn't feel right calling it a conference title. It is what it is. A strong alliance of teams playing for the common purpose of being able to schedule good D1 FCS games. I don't see what is so wrong with that way of thinking. Since I am for the move to D1 I would rather be playing a game against Cal Poly or So Utah than to be in the NSIC and playing games against Crookston or Northern State despite it being a legit conference.

[JimmyJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

contrast your posts with those of the Bison fans who come on here. They almost always are informational, positive and most important respectful. The same is true for a number of folks here who post on Bisonville. Of course leading up to a game with them there are usually the homecooked predictions but they are never nasty and when the games are over I have never seen anyone post gloating comments. As a result I for one have become somewhat of a fan of the Bison.

Honestly, I would put Coyote_Fan in the thinking fan category most of the time, rather than the angry partisan. He's honest about his teams. The problem is he hasn't let go of that anti-SDSU "Hate State" mentality and his nasty comments here sometimes bring the "Screw the U" mentality out in some of us.

I would say it's symptomatic of the relative positions of the two programs. USD faces a ton of uncertainty, with no conference home for most of its programs and five years of purgatory ahead of them. That is no doubt making even thinking fans like CF antsy. And USD needs SDSU more now than we need them. We're busy making connections and building rivalries with the Gateway and Summit schools. They're just starting a transition with no clear goals other than finding a way to play and defeat SDSU in order to brand their move a success. CF himself has said he doesn't think much of his 5-team football league (an arguable point, of course.) So what's left as a goal during their transition? Find a new league (unlikely, it appears to me) or beat SDSU at something.

Once we are able to get USD fans to move on past the ugliness of the old USD-SDSU rivalry, as we have, maybe they'll be ready for a new one. In the meantime, USD fans will have to be satisfied by, for example, comparing their Missouri-Rolla football score against ours.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

USD might have an easier transition to D-1 for multiple reasons. First, the Coyotes have fewer sports, so they don't have to spread their money or effort as far. Second, USD can follow the path cleared by SDSU, NDSU, Northern Colorado and to a lesser degree UND. Third, the Coyotes have low standards. Mediocre teams get hyped as examples of excellence. Then the teams fold, the cycle repeats and everyone remains happy and confident. (See men's football and men's basketball for examples.) I give the Coyotes credit for taking on the D-I challenge, but they might wish they'd followed Morningside instead.

[jacks1]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Coyote dude:
I am perplexed by you. For the life of me, I cant figure out why you spend so much time on this site. I for one have never even looked to see if there is a similar USD site although Ive heard references. Do you post over there? Does anyone post over there? Is there such a lack of interest that they cant keep a site going like this one or Bisonville? I mean Im a big Jacks fan and get on here pretty regular when I have something constructive to add but you have more posts then I do.

The only conclusion I can come to is you just get off on coming over just to needle people and lets face it, it works with some of the folks here, but that is really strange behavior. Do you get up in the morning and think today Im going to go out of my way to irritate people?

I contrast your posts with those of the Bison fans who come on here. They almost always are informational, positive and most important respectful. The same is true for a number of folks here who post on Bisonville. Of course leading up to a game with them there are usually the homecooked predictions but they are never nasty and when the games are over I have never seen anyone post gloating comments. As a result I for one have become somewhat of a fan of the Bison. I know I was cheering for them when they beat the Gophers and I am confident there will be plenty of them rooting for the Jacks against Iowa State. On the other hand, its guys like you that had me smiling when the the inevitable big choke took place last Saturday nite.

Rep points for you! I've wondered my entire posting life why anyone would go onto someone else's forum to justify what is, more than likely, irrational thoughts.

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Be afraid of the U. They'd beat us for sure in baseball and wrestling on a consistant basis

[HoboD]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Coyote dude:
I am perplexed by you. For the life of me, I cant figure out why you spend so much time on this site. I for one have never even looked to see if there is a similar USD site although Ive heard references. Do you post over there? Does anyone post over there? Is there such a lack of interest that they cant keep a site going like this one or Bisonville? I mean Im a big Jacks fan and get on here pretty regular when I have something constructive to add but you have more posts then I do.

The only conclusion I can come to is you just get off on coming over just to needle people and lets face it, it works with some of the folks here, but that is really strange behavior. Do you get up in the morning and think today Im going to go out of my way to irritate people?

I contrast your posts with those of the Bison fans who come on here. They almost always are informational, positive and most important respectful. The same is true for a number of folks here who post on Bisonville. Of course leading up to a game with them there are usually the homecooked predictions but they are never nasty and when the games are over I have never seen anyone post gloating comments. As a result I for one have become somewhat of a fan of the Bison. I know I was cheering for them when they beat the Gophers and I am confident there will be plenty of them rooting for the Jacks against Iowa State. On the other hand, its guys like you that had me smiling when the the inevitable big choke took place last Saturday nite.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Let me ask this. Does it matter who got to 63 FB scholarships faster? Does someone get a DI trophy for getting to 63 the fastest?

There are several paths to fully funding football. Our athletic department had their vision and did it their way. Their department is going to do it their way and if its wrong or convoluted it will show itself sooner or later.

Personally it doesn't matter a ton to me who got or gets to full scholarships the fastest but since it seems to be such a big deal to so many SDSU fans that SDSU moved to D1 first maybe it does have some relevance. It shows if true that one of USD's first D1 decisions is going to be done with conviction.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Again, a major flaw in the approach to transition. You've made several huge assumptions that are in error. USD and its fans/supporters don't need to worry about what supporters of other programs think. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow from SDSU thinks USD has a shot at DI or not. All that matters is whether USD has a solid plan in place and even then they probably need to catch some breaks. There is a good chance, no great chance, that some of the breaks they need to catch are going to come through SDSU.

The smack your catching as a USD fan has to do with the lack of transparency as it applies to the transition. Abbott himself told me the funds were in place for scholarships and infrastructure but when I asked him specifically about numbers, facilities, conference affiliation, etc.. he simply repeated that things were in place.

I made a call to Mike and Craig and asked them why no one was asking the same questions of USD that were asked repeatedly at SDSU. At the time I made that call I wasn't fully aware of the fact that Mike and Craig were so opposed to the DI move that they had checked out so I got crap for answers.

Here is what I've heard. A new building will be going up just south of the dome. That building will provide facilities for basketball and volleyball. I assume that means practice and games. Coach Ed says scholarships for football will be at 57 this year and 63 by the next year allowing them to then schedule a money game. FB has the Great West Conference for now. I've not heard about BB or VB trying to find a home. Track, both men's and women's will be the sports on the "fast track" to post-season eligibility. Good move IMHO.

Abbott says "the money is in place". I don't doubt him. The USD foundation has had great success raising money through alumni donations. I do wonder, as other here have, about corporate support. I don't worry about it I just wonder.

The thing that gets under the skin of some of you USD guys is the fact that we just don't give a damn if we ever play you again. If USD fan doesn't realize that a transition even partially as successful as SDSU's has been would be great for USD, I'm not sure I can help that guy. Hope is not a viable plan.

Finally a reasonable post from an SDSU fan. Your questions are legitimate and most of those questions I have myself. We are just going to have to see how things play out. As far as we know maybe USD has a reason for keeping their exact plans in secret right now. I wish they would be more public about more specifics with the move but maybe there is a reason. I will give USD the benefit of the doubt. I am assuming a respected institution knows what they are doing and has a plan. Sure I would like to know more but I don't need to know in the long run as long as things are being taken care of.

I would like to see general improvement in some areas of the athletic department but as critical as I am towards things I do realise that since Joel Nielson took over the success of athletics has generally gone up. In football and basketball most fans consider them to be slightly disappointing. 10-20 years ago those same seasons would have been considered successfull. It used to be that 2 of the 3 highest profile sports were always bad but now all three are looking pretty good. Nielson and Abbott as a combination are better than any other combo that I have seen since I have been a fan (since the early 90's).

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I'm one who is not interested in the failure of an institution.

But...I am looking forward to seeing whether some of your predictions, CoyoteFan, will be close to the actual facts. Sixty-three scholarships in half the time of SDSU? Yeah, right. The old cliche' "time will tell" applies and the actual facts will unfold before us all in the next few years.

I don't think you should make any big bets on your predictions, CoyoteFan.

JackJD,

Please quote me on those predictions that you are talking about. I am not quite sure what you are getting at exactly.

[JimmyJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

Don't mistake the passions of this smack board for any great hope among SDSU fans that USD fails. You'll struggle in transition for a while, but I'm sure your coaches and student athletes will adjust. I hope USD has a successful transition because it matters to me that the student athletes have a good experience (many of them are South Dakota kids and all of them deserve to get a good education and compete at the D1 level). If they're not playing SDSU (and they won't be for a good bit of time) why should I root against them?

I'd say Coyote_Fan has been realistic about the situation. We've had fun with him when he claimed that DII and FCS are equivalent (talk to us again after you've dealt with Dally and Barden from Cal Poly). But generally, he's not viewing USD's prospects with rose-colored glasses. In fact, he has taken a good bit of flack from USD fans for being too negative.

SDSU has made it a bit easier for USD by removing the novelty from the move up. The media is far less interested in USD's every move because they assume that there are smart people at USD who can figure this out. I don't always like the way they do things (they'll have to step up their event management, including security) but I'm going to take a wait-and-see attitude here.

Sorry if that's not smacky enough. I'm too tired to duke it out right now.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I did a quick skim through the report Nidaros linked to and it had a chart showing the max schollies for sports in D1 and D2. If my math was correct (I did not use a calculator), if USD went to the max D1 from the max in D2 in the women's sports listed, it would be an increase of 31.8. If they increase 27 in football and 3 in men's basketball that would leave them 1.8 more for women. I think that should suffice for one prong of the three prong test for Title 9, which I believe is all required by the federal law. It is my understanding that the SD Board of Regents has required that SD institutions meet all the tests under Title 9. I readily admit that I do not know enough about the law to comment how each prong is applied, but it looks like to me that they could make it without adding any women's sports.

[Hammersmith]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

You State fans are pretty good at finding things out. Can anybody here find out the size of the USD Foundation? What are their endowments at and how does the USD Foundation compare to the other 3 Dakota schools? Links to documents would be nice.

Some of these figures aren't exactly apples to apples, but they're close. The total assets are easy enough to find, but the endowment numbers are a little tougher.

Endowments:
UND: $125,573,397
USD: $119,000,000(approx)
NDSU: $96,012,671
SDSU: $77,000,000(approx)

Foundation Total Assets:
UND: $205,540,982
USD: $184,034,889
NDSU: $142,789,460
SDSU: $120,000,000(approx)

References:
USD: USD Foundation Annual Report, USD Foundation FY07 Press Release
UND: NDUS Financial Report 2007
NDSU: see above
SDSU: SDSU Foundation Press Release for Retiring President(Dec '07)