Conference shifts

[filbert]

Re: Conference shifts

Pac-10 drops the other shoe:

Pac-10 invites Utah to join the conference

Utah hasn't officially accepted yet but does anybody expect them not to?

Boise State, having just jumped from the WAC to the Mountain West, can't be particularly happy about that. Neither can the Mountain West. BYU especially will feel a bit miffed, I imagine.

[zooropa]

Re: Conference shifts

Everybody should've seen this coming, though. Everybody.

[Nidaros]

Re: Conference shifts

I beginning to see something here. Presidents are clamoring for more athletic revenue to do their budget.

Why else would they start such a crazy scheme such as to break up the Big 12? Its about money. I hope these west coast greedy presidents learn a big lesson from this. The notion of trying to pull the strong ones from the BIG 12 kind of backfired. I really dont think they got much in Colorado and Utah. Serves them right.

What seems to be a truism is that all conference members are not equal in ability to generate revenue. Even with large number of conference members, you get them in all sizes. The Fargo Forum did a article on expansion of the NSIC this past week and posted all the members in terms of student body size and athletic budgets. Quite a range of numbers, and so it is at the FBS level.

I think SDSU is right where it should be in terms of competition. I see there is a thread about SDSU being no 1 in the Summit for academics. Now that's a very good thing.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Conference shifts

My Brother, a fellow Jacks ex-athlete, were talking about the scholastic achievements at SDSU. His take is that the athletes of his day weren't the sharpest tools in the shed. I was making the case that the current athletes, since moving to D-I, have to be smart, and study hard, i.e. get the good grades, in order to be offered scholarships. IMHO, this is certainly true in WBB and football, as these two teams seem to generate more academic All-Americans than virtually the entire rest of the other conference schools' teams.

My hat's off to the coaches and mentors who work hard on the academic side to assure that our athletes leave SDSU with quality education, and the opportunities to make it in the world.

[MinneapolisJack]

Re: Conference shifts

I hope these west coast greedy presidents learn a big lesson from this. The notion of trying to pull the strong ones from the BIG 12 kind of backfired. I really dont think they got much in Colorado and Utah. Serves them right.

Even though the PAC-10 didn't get the big four from the Big12, they are still very happy to add Colorado & Utah. The only real reason to add teams is for more money. It gives the PAC-10 a championship game and it gives them a wider footprint for their forthcoming TV network. The Big10 made so much money off their network that every conference wants one. Adding Colorado & Utah lets them spread that footprint out further to get more revenue from the SLC & Denver markets. It's not really even about the schools as much as it's about the Metro areas.

[Nidaros]

Re: Conference shifts

Even though the PAC-10 didn't get the big four from the Big12, they are still very happy to add Colorado & Utah. The only real reason to add teams is for more money. It gives the PAC-10 a championship game and it gives them a wider footprint for their forthcoming TV network. The Big10 made so much money off their network that every conference wants one. Adding Colorado & Utah lets them spread that footprint out further to get more revenue from the SLC & Denver markets. It's not really even about the schools as much as it's about the Metro areas.

Who do you think runs the PAC-10, THE BIG 10, THE BIG 12? It sure is no egotistic AD that is running these negiotiations, its the Presidents who are in charge all the way so to deny the schools involvement is not the driving force behind this move for big money is not being realistic. Its jealousy and greed that drives these egomaniac presidents of the Pac 10 who are jealous of the Big 10 etc. Thats what I am asserting. Media markets are important, but its greed that is the driving force. Some hard working student athlete is totally lost in these conversations. Why not start paying student athletes? I think that's next.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Conference shifts

Who do you think runs the PAC-10, THE BIG 10, THE BIG 12? It sure is no egotistic AD that is running these negiotiations, its the Presidents who are in charge all the way so to deny the schools involvement is not the driving force behind this move for big money is not being realistic. Its jealousy and greed that drives these egomaniac presidents of the Pac 10 who are jealous of the Big 10 etc. Thats what I am asserting. Media markets are important, but its greed that is the driving force. Some hard working student athlete is totally lost in these conversations. Why not start paying student athletes? I think that's next.

While this sort of talk is very popular these days, it is the easy answer to a more complex issue.

There was a lot of talk at the time or our own DI transition from people outside the Brookings area that the SDSU DI move was being driven by our president's and AD's egos or greed. Most familiar with the school didn't buy that. History (so far) has shown that it was the right move and the responsible thing to do for SDSU.

I am sometimes concerned with our society's need to instantly deem success, achievement, stability, or attempts at gaining them as greed, jealousy, or corruption. Can't people just want what's best for them (or their institution, company, or family) and go after it?

When I regularly show up for work on time, save a portion of my salary, study investment opportunities, and make purchasing decisions, am I being greedy or RESPONSIBLE? I fear the day when I reach retirement age (hopefully), and some less responsible person (or a voting majority of persons) decides my careful decisions were merely greed, and the fruits of my labor are taken from me in the form of higher taxes (or worse) to support their irresponsible lifetime.

I think for the most part the same applies in these conference re-alignments. Do you think it was easy for Nebraska to walk away from the Big 12? Colorado? From everything I've read, they made their moves in the best interest of their institutions--and yes, money plays a big part of that. Their moves did play a role in other schools re-evaluating their best interests too--and money plays a factor in that. Just because money is involved doesn't mean greed is involved.

[zooropa]

Re: Conference shifts

I am sometimes concerned with our society's need to instantly deem success, achievement, stability, or attempts at gaining them as greed, jealousy, or corruption. Can't people just want what's best for them (or their institution, company, or family) and go after it?

William Shakespeare on DeLoss Dodds:

"O it is excellent to have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant"

That's the objection.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Conference shifts

William Shakespeare on DeLoss Dodds:

"O it is excellent to have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant"

That's the objection.

I agree to a certain extent.

Generally speaking, in today's rhetoric people assume the giant's (universities, presidents, or ADs) are using their strength like a giant without knowing the facts. If anything, from the reports I've read, Texas was the tyrannous giant in this particular instance. Yet Nebraska and Colorado are the bad guys with greedy and jealous motives.

It has become very fashionable to assume that because a person, corporation, politician, or school has great power and influence, they will use it for malicious ends. Whatever they do must be motivated by greed and corruption, simply because they have certain assets.

[zooropa]

Re: Conference shifts

they will use it for malicious ends

I would say it's not so much 'malicious' as 'callous'. There is no active malice involved, simply a willful disregard of other parties.

Consider track and field. There are, as far as I know, no roster limits.

This, IMO, does not benefit the student athlete--or at least it results in an inequitable distribution of scholarship money, as many students would apparently rather take an invite to walk-on at an Oregon than take scholarship money somewhere like NDSU.

Thus, these powerhouse programs are assigned the expense of carrying NCAA qualifying students well past the end of the spring semester.

If there were roster limits, this expense would probably be more evenly distributed. However, as it stands, a few elite schools bear the burden of this expense.

Now, when this expense becomes too onerous, do these schools push the NCAA to impose roster limits, reasoning that it is 1) extremely unlikely to impact their dominance, 2) a means of reducing the cost of room and board, and 3) an equitable arrangement benefiting all schools, as it will likely lead to broader representation at the regional meets, if not the national meets as well?

No. They push the NCAA to eliminate a round of the championship--thus lowering their costs while diminishing the student athlete experience at many other schools (no, most competitors at a regional meet won't go to nationals, but it is -something- to qualify for an NCAA championship event, regardless of where you finish).

They act -exclusively- in their own best interest, regardless of its negative impact on other programs, or the student athletes at other programs.

This conduct runs counter to the notion of noblesse oblige, conduct that we tend to require of powerful people. Hence the reference to Shakespeare.

We don't expect the powerful to act in a manner that is detrimental to their interests, but we do expect them to consider those who are, to a greater or lesser extent, dependent on them.

[Nidaros]

Re: Conference shifts

While this sort of talk is very popular these days, it is the easy answer to a more complex issue.

There was a lot of talk at the time or our own DI transition from people outside the Brookings area that the SDSU DI move was being driven by our president's and AD's egos or greed. Most familiar with the school didn't buy that. History (so far) has shown that it was the right move and the responsible thing to do for SDSU.

I am sometimes concerned with our society's need to instantly deem success, achievement, stability, or attempts at gaining them as greed, jealousy, or corruption. Can't people just want what's best for them (or their institution, company, or family) and go after it?

When I regularly show up for work on time, save a portion of my salary, study investment opportunities, and make purchasing decisions, am I being greedy or RESPONSIBLE? I fear the day when I reach retirement age (hopefully), and some less responsible person (or a voting majority of persons) decides my careful decisions were merely greed, and the fruits of my labor are taken from me in the form of higher taxes (or worse) to support their irresponsible lifetime.

I think for the most part the same applies in these conference re-alignments. Do you think it was easy for Nebraska to walk away from the Big 12? Colorado? From everything I've read, they made their moves in the best interest of their institutions--and yes, money plays a big part of that. Their moves did play a role in other schools re-evaluating their best interests too--and money plays a factor in that. Just because money is involved doesn't mean greed is involved.

How this discussion can be turn into a discussion about personal political, social and economic fears, is beyond me. Irresponsible lifetimes? How does that fit in? What is an irresponsible lifetime? Sounds like rheotic from a Tea party gathering.

I am thinking I am in agreement with your suggestion that individual institutions are doing what is best for their own interest and I have no quarrel about that. Granted I have not read enough about what is really going on but I suspect its all leading up to a future agreement withe CBS and the big dance revenue. Certain schools are jockeying for a better position in the revenue pie splitting that takes place after all has been played out in terms of the big dance and I suppose games and events that lead up to this final splitting are what I gather are the problem and what affect does that have on the Summit League and new members such as SDSU and NDSU? Again I am not up on all the going ons, but with a bigger concentration in membership in such conferences such as BIG 10, Big 12 and PAC 10, there will be less opportunity for any revenue showing up in SDSU budget in years to come if SDSU,ORU or Oakland were to crack the Sweet Sixteen, and that is my real fear. We are after all the small fish in the big pond and these major shifts can hardly bode good tiddings for the future for SDSU. This is what I am attempting to get at in terms of fears about greed and jealousy.

[filbert]

Re: Conference shifts

How this discussion can be tunr into a discussion about personal political, social and economic fears, is beyond me. Irresponsible lifetimes? How does that fit in? What is an irresponsible lifetime? Sounds like rheotic from a Tea party gathering.

I am thinking I am in agreement with your suggestion that individual institutions are doing what is best for their own interest and I have no quarrel about that. Granted I have not read enough about what is really going on but I suspect its all leading up to a future agreement withe CBS and the big dance revenue. Certain schools are jockeying for a better position in the revenue pie splitting that takes place after all has been played out in terms of the big dance and I suppose games and events that lead up to this final splitting are what I gather are the problem and what affect does that have on the Summit League and new members such as SDSU and NDSU? Again I am not up on all the going ons, but with a bigger concentration in membership in such conferences such as BIG 10, Big 12 and PAC 10, there will be less opportunity for any revenue showing up in SDSU budget in years to come if SDSU,ORU or Oakland were to crack the Sweet Sixteen, and that is my real fear. We are after all the small fish in the big pond and these major shifts can hardly bode good tiddings for the future for SDSU. This is what I am attempting to get at in terms of fears about greed and jealousy.

Yeah, you have to watch that Tea Party rheotic . . .

/political
/spelling snark
/friday night silly . . .

[Nidaros]

Re: Conference shifts

Yeah, you have to watch that Tea Party rheotic . . .

/political
/spelling snark
/friday night silly . . .

I think SF_Jack_Fan stated his arguments in that post in an eloquent manner. I have a big big problem personally with substance, but I gave him rep pts for style. I guess a guy can do that. . .

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Conference shifts

I think SF_Jack_Fan stated his arguments in that post in an eloquent manner. I have a big big problem personally with substance, but I gave him rep pts for style. I guess a guy can do that. . .

Thanks for the rep, didn't mean for my original post to seem political (for the record, I do tend to agree with some of the rhetoric of the Tea Party. I also tend to agree with some of the rhetoric of more progressive organizations. A guy can do that too, right?). I was just trying to use a micro example of personal finance to try to illustrate my point. Appreciate the conversation.