Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

I don't think he was saying she lied to you, but I have found many things that my elder relatives have told me that turned out not to be true.

Some see it as an honor, some don't. It probably was that way at the time it was selected, and is now. I also would think that some of those that made the selection had honorable intentions and some did not.

This is why when UND signed the agreement with the NCAA the name was doomed. The agreement provides that the tribes can change withdraw their approval and UND has one year to change it. Everyone out there that runs/manages a business: Would keep your logo/name if you knew that any time another entity could decide that you have to change it? Especially when it is your biggest marketing/branding item you have?

This is just silly, and it is coming from people in positions that should no better.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

If UND had put actions behind its words, I'm sure more Indians would consider it an honor.

As it is, they have not accorded the tribes the dignity of treating them as the legitimate owners of their cultural identity, and have appropriated a pastiche of it without apology.

Fifteen, twenty years ago, had UND gotten in front of this, approached the tribes, said, "we want this nickname to honor your heritage, and your tribes must be involved in order to do that," they would not be where they find themselves today.

Instead, UND and Ralph Englestad spent the 90s and the first half of this decade telling the tribes, "We'll do what we want and if you don't like it, you can go pound sand."

[Nidaros]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Very UNTRUE, THEY (UND) consider it an Honor, but many Natives HATE the nickname and the LOGO (yes I know first hand but will not get into details on here), but to UND's defense there are also many Natives that don't care either way.

If you spend a great of time doing reseach and surveys, you would find this indifference attitude that is historically long in being the result of American Policy towards Indians, such as hauling the youngsters off the reservations to boarding schools, cutting their braids and punishing them for speaking their native tongues. The current generations are grandchildren to those that had their spirits broken at boarding schools. We attempted to make them middle class hard working Americans and they did not cooperate and now we wonder why they have poor work habits and a high rate of alchololism. I read parts of texts that are used in Indian study courses and there seems to be chapters on the boarding schools at the turn of the 20th century. They were a disaster and now we are paying a price and so are the Native Americans. The only good thing about the Casino's are that they provide jobs within their own culture and give them back some self diginity.

I said enough, I know some are really going to be p@ssed about my comments.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Very UNTRUE, THEY (UND) consider it an Honor, but many Natives HATE the nickname and the LOGO (yes I know first hand but will not get into details on here), but to UND's defense there are also many Natives that don't care either way.

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

[tjbison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

I lived 20 minutes from Brand Forks for 5 years. Still have alot of family up there and alot of friends who are UND grads. Proud to say I coached one of the best baseball players to every play at UND. I still remember where I was when I heard the news that Ralph was building the new, big arena. My aunt, now retired, sold gaming equipment to one of the tribes for years and years. One day, many years ago (10?) we talked about the Fighting Sioux nickname. I don't remember all the specifics but I remember her telling me that UND recieved premission for the nickname and that they and the Native American people of ND considered it an honor. That said, just change the stinkin name already!

If given the choice btw toiling in D1 Independent hell and changing the Jackrabbits to the Jackelopes or Hoppers or Cubby's or Nagy's or Frosty's or anything else I would change my name yesterday. But, like it has been pointed out, hockey is by far king up there and as long as they have that and have the highest selling hockey jersey I suppose they might be okay playing in this rinky-dink GWC. Have fun with that....

Very UNTRUE, THEY (UND) consider it an Honor, but many Natives HATE the nickname and the LOGO (yes I know first hand but will not get into details on here), but to UND's defense there are also many Natives that don't care either way.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

I lived 20 minutes from Brand Forks for 5 years. Still have alot of family up there and alot of friends who are UND grads. Proud to say I coached one of the best baseball players to every play at UND. I still remember where I was when I heard the news that Ralph was building the new, big arena. My aunt, now retired, sold gaming equipment to one of the tribes for years and years. One day, many years ago (10?) we talked about the Fighting Sioux nickname. I don't remember all the specifics but I remember her telling me that UND recieved premission for the nickname and that they and the Native American people of ND considered it an honor. That said, just change the stinkin name already!

If given the choice btw toiling in D1 Independent hell and changing the Jackrabbits to the Jackelopes or Hoppers or Cubby's or Nagy's or Frosty's or anything else I would change my name yesterday. But, like it has been pointed out, hockey is by far king up there and as long as they have that and have the highest selling hockey jersey I suppose they might be okay playing in this rinky-dink GWC. Have fun with that....

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Head over to the sioux forums and you will see they are a Lock in the Big Sky, and the Summit is a horrible conference!!


oh yeah, when you show them proof the Summit and BSC are about equal they deny and hide!!!!

The Big Sky turned down the xDSU's b/c of geography, right? So why then would they want UND?

Let them say they Summit is awful after they finish 8th or below for 5 straight years, which is exactly what they would do. Is this the same "FCS" school that just lost to a NAIA? Big Sky...ha! You should be happy if not lucky to get in the Summit.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Anyone ever seen "It's A Wonderful Life"?

You know that scene where Jimmy Stewart's going on about wanting to shake the dust off his feet and see the world? And the guy that yells out the window: "Why don't you kiss her instead of talking her to death"?

Well, the SBoHE needs to change this nickname instead of talking it to death.

All the SBoHE has done is talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk and when they've gotten tired of talking they've whiled away the days and hours with long bouts of hand sitting, vast stretches of butt scratching, and the occasional whimsy of a deadline with no more teeth than a superannuated garter snake.

One cannot respect any participant in this debate. The SBoHE has displayed the sort of strategic insight that one is accustomed to see from headless chickens, one tribe issued a meaningless and unenforceable proclamation, while the other says, "we'd love to talk, as long as we don't have to talk about anything in particular."

The boosters who are threatening to take their money and go home like so many whiny spoiled four year olds, the Ralph Englestad Arena trust which claims to be thoroughly uninvolved in this despite its continual meddling in UND affairs, and the nickname opponents who would embarrass LaRouche Democrats and UFO enthusiasts with some of their conspiracy theories.

Some people have said that this should be turned into a book.

Such an idea is absolutely ludicrous.

Not only is there no hero in this story, there are no villains (except a dead nazi)---in short the only characters are dupes, rubes, wind bags, and thumb twiddlers; and if you think you can get something exciting out of that......

Great post!

[filbert]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

I'm guessing it rhymes with "duck" as well.

I think you've tuned to my wavelength . . .

[HoboJack]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Short answer IMO is Money, UND and MN are the heavy hitters in the WCHA for money, look at the Frozen four appearances for those 2, I know there isn't alot of Competition in college hockey but UND and MN are like Florida and USC in the hockey world

I don't understand this arguement. How does having UND in the WCHA doesn't give any of the other programs more money? What's in it for the other WCHA programs to sit by and let this controversy continue?

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

The most descriptive word for the situation with the school in Grand Forks begins with "cluster" I believe . . .

I'm guessing it rhymes with "duck" as well.

[tjbison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Why doesn't the hockey conference put a little pressure on them too? It can't look good for them either. I imagine that if hey were told that either they change their logo or they will not be allowed to compete they would cover that stuff us so fast their heads would spin.

Short answer IMO is Money, UND and MN are the heavy hitters in the WCHA for money, look at the Frozen four appearances for those 2, I know there isn't alot of Competition in college hockey but UND and MN are like Florida and USC in the hockey world

[SoDakJack]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well I would think they will have something to say eventually, especially when MN and WI will only play them due to conference obligation.

Why doesn't the hockey conference put a little pressure on them too? It can't look good for them either. I imagine that if hey were told that either they change their logo or they will not be allowed to compete they would cover that stuff us so fast their heads would spin.

[tjbison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

This issue is just amazing to me. The fact that one sport (hockey) can hold an entire athletic department hostage is amazing. One question I have is where does the WCHA stand on this whole issue? I would think that this would be a black eye for them too at some point.

Well I would think they will have something to say eventually, especially when MN and WI will only play them due to conference obligation.

[tjbison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well, to be fair, a lot of xDSU fans once had a similar misconception about the Big Sky as well . . .

Oh I know, but there were not any other schools in our region that were turned down at the time, now they think they will be admitted even after we were let down