"Why not State and the U"

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

The difference is that one school was in the Big 7 and Oklahoma A&M was in the Valley (right?).

OU's big rivals were always Texas and (until they divided the Big 12), Nebraska. Would OU quit playing Texas because fans acted like A-holes? No, because there's too much money and tradition on the line. I only attended OU for one year as a graduate student, and didn't make the trip to Dallas but know (at least in the sixties) that it was legendary.

And yet, all four Dakota schools will let series with their primary historical rivalries go down the drain. In the case of SDSU, because (among other reasons) someone took a dump in the women's bb locker room. What do they do in Texas?

Skins are getting a little too thin. When I was a freshman the RA's (are you out there KG and JH, I know you did it) tried the old hand in warm water trick and when that didn't work had most of the people on the floor take a collective piss and pour a waste basket full on me as I slept. Didn't even phase me. After I figured out that it was a little hard to pee on your own hair, I took a shower and laughed about it.

Got to stop this, I'm beginning to feel like Rodney Dangerfield in "Back to School"

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I think for this to work though USD is going to have to take the first steps, quit going to the media saying stuff like (Summit League will accept us and the Gateway wants us) and come out and say we will play you at your house until we are capable of holding the game at are house.

You are whistling at the moon joe, if you think USD is going to say they will agree to play at our house without a return. Forget them...your scenarios are fine, but they won't happen. Now if USD wants to pay us $300,000 to go down to Vermillion to play football, we MIGHT consider that for 2010 or 2011.

[NightHawk78]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

The SDSU-USD rivalry was already dying when the plug got pulled a few years ago. 5000 watched the FB game at CAS in 2003 (and that probably included the marching band), a far cry from the 10,000+ crowds that were regularly seen in the 70s and 80s. There was no money being made there. Even though the basketball games were still well attended, I think SDSU attendance was driven more by good teams and "will-something-hit-the-court-again?" syndrome. Oh, yeah: you never saw the marching bands make the short trip either way in the last years, either.

To be honest, SDSU had no great rivalries left when we left D-II because we had taken things for granted and had settled for the status quo for two decades until the decision was made to move to D-I.

When SDSU and USD play each other again, there will definitely be a lot more than 5000 fans at CAS and basketball tickets (for each, seperate BB game) will likely sell out as fall as tickets did for the WNIT game against Indiana, simply because of the build-up and publicity. If the rivalry resumes successively, I am confident that people will generally look back at this current hiatus as a good thing because both sides ended their complacency.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

To be honest, SDSU had no great rivalries left when we left D-II because we had taken things for granted and had settled for the status quo for two decades until the decision was made to move to D-I.

NightHawk, I hear your sentiment but that is a huge stretch to say the least. There was no question that USD was THE rivalry game and Augie was the next best thing.

I agree with the feeling that it was getting old! It will happen again but not until USD is a counter! That's just the way it is!

My hope for when it is started again is that the students that will be involved in it will be far enough removed from the crap that went on (yes, ut went both ways!) and then it will get back to a great rivalry on the field without any of the unneeded problems that had come to be expected at a USD/SDSU game. This break may end up being the best thing for the rivalry in the long term.

SUPERBUNNY

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

One more time of trying to put this in some kind of context. For the PM'er who described sleazy behavior in Vermillion. Would I want to be exposed to what you described? Hell no, because I'm an old man and don't want anything like that up close. On the other hand, relegated to a special section of obnoxious youth (with everybody normal at a good distance away), it's not out of the ordinary. Again, I emphasize that having the general student section waylay fans and family members of other teams have no place. Would I want to attend a basketball game with my granddaughter and have a bunch of thugs personally threaten or attack me, no way!

I give you the Wikipedia description of the Antlers, I'm sure this is the norm for many major colleges, I've never heard any indication that University of Missouri students are in any way out of the ordinary. Note they don't limit their behavior to games against Kansas. Sam Houston State and any one else coming to Columbia get roughly the same treatment. Again as an elderly fart, if SDSU ever comes to Columbia I'll be sure to drive over. I won't, however, wear a SDSU sweatshirt and insert myself any where near them. They should be segregated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antlers

"Notable Antics

Prior to an MU-KU basketball game in 2003, members of the Antlers prank called KU coach Roy Williams at his home at 2:27, 2:45, and 3:05 a.m. Such activities are what the Antlers are best known for. In the week prior the MU-KU game, they obtain the numbers of KU players and coaches and crank call them all week long. They also make huge signs with the players' names and phone numbers.

Even first-year Mizzou coach Mike Anderson remembers his first encounter with the Antlers when he was an Arkansas assistant in the early 1990s. As Arkansas players and coaches were arriving at their hotel, several Antlers pulled up alongside with a pig's head on the top of their car and told members of the Arkansas team "Hey, this is going to happen to you guys." Pig blood splattered on Arkansas coach Nolan Richardson's suit.

In the 2005 regular season home opener, an Antler blew up the picture of the girlfriend of a Sam Houston State University player that was found on Facebook. On facebook, the photo, in which she was holding a bottle of vodka wearing only a bra, was accompanied by a message expressing how much she loved him and how she gets a big stupid smile on her face when she sees him. During the game, the Antlers held up the picture and chanted "Reggie's got a girlfriend", and sang the song "Angel" by Shaggy. They also pointed to her and yelled the contents of her love message, as well as several other comments that were considered by some to be in poor taste.

Prior to a Tiger victory over the Baylor Bears in February 2005, one Antler was invited into the Bears' locker room, where coach Scott Drew dared him to repeat the obscenities that he and some of the other Antlers screamed at the Baylor team at a Columbia restaurant the prior evening. Antler policies exist against cursing or off-color remarks, but individuals have been known to cross the line on several occasions.

The Antlers are also ready to attack more than just players. Following criticism by columnist Tony Messenger in February 2005, they offered a verbal response to him during the first half of a game against his home-state Colorado Buffaloes. While Colorado’s Glean Eddy was attempting free throw's, the Antlers chanted Messenger's name and informed him of how much they believe he sucks.

When Oklahoma visited the Hearnes Center for the first time after coach Billy Tubbs was hit by a car while jogging, the Antlers dressed up in jogging gear and walkmans and bandaged their heads. The Antlers ran onto the court and one of the members made a cardboard car ran over them with it.

Iowa State center Dean Uthoff's was the center of another Antler prank when they obtained the phone number at his dorm in Ames and called him. They posed as huge fans and wanted to show their appreciation by ordering him a pizza, and they told him and it should be downstairs in his lobby in a half hour. Uthoff fell for the scam and waited nearly an hour for the pizza. The Antlers later called again to ask how the pizza tasted. Two days later when Iowa State visited Mizzou, all of the Antlers were waving empty pizza boxes at him when he ran onto the court.

During a 2007 game at Mizzou Arena this season against Bobby Knight, one of the antlers dressed up as Bobby Knight. The Bobby Knight Impersonator began to walk around the student section and hit all the students. To make fun of Bobby Knight for what he has been known to do.

In another well-known moment, the Antlers held up pictures of former Kansas coach Larry Brown and Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and asked, “Which one's the terrorist?”

For every game, the Antlers make signs that correspond to the opposing team's starting players, usually playing off their names. In recent years, these signs have been censored by the athletic department, whose staff has begun checking them at the door. The Antlers occasionally make other signs for use throughout the game, including this infamous one that was shown on a national CBS broadcast:
Corey
Beck has
Syphilis

A video clip of an Antler trying to distract an Oklahoma player shooting free throws. 2-20-07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCpgfJ4E6L4 "

Or this article detailing the quiet, polite atmosphere that occurred pre and post Antlers:

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/st...sary-at-misso/

Frankly, I lost a lot of interest in Mizzou when Norm Stewart was forced out classlessly. Remembered attacking him visciously during his visits to Brookings but he represented the tough as nails era of coaching that's now disappearing:

"“Norm Stewart loved us, so we could get away with murder,” he said. “We had a free run of the place, and it was a different time, before political correctness.”

MU’s Faculty Council recently dropped a proposal to regulate fan behavior after the Antlers’ actions at a Dec. 19 game against Indiana University. The council dropped the proposal after it found out Tad Dunn, director of game operations, had sent the group an e-mail about its behavior.

Faculty Council member Rex Campbell drew up the proposal last month.

“Some members of the Antlers make some very awkward comments about persons from other communities,” Campbell said. “I don’t mind razzing, but when you personalize it, it’s uncalled for.”

Chad Moller, director of media relations for the athletic department, did not specifically single out the Antlers but did discuss fan behavior in general.

“Whenever something happens that crosses the line, we do our best to deal with that,” he said.

Stewart, the MU basketball coach from 1967 to 1999, said he liked the Antlers because they made basketball games more fun. He keeps in touch with Miller and Geary.

“All of those guys showed a lot of imagination, a lot of creativity and they were also controllable,” he said. “Sometimes they lost it, but they would still come back to center.”

Geary described the Antlers’ harassing as a mingling of art and science.

“It’s a combination of journalistic research techniques combined with psychology and theater when it’s done well,” he said."

Again. Pre-Antlers: 8,000 polite fans in the 13,000 seat Hearnes Center. Antlers: 15,000 fans in the Mizzou center.

[38_Jack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

If this is the way college athletics are and seem to be the norm count me out. I have seen all of that juvinile behavior I need. I have not always agreed with what the SDSU athletic department has done but they have good crowd control and I appreciate that. We shoud be able to go to the games, and enjoy them without using them to show the world our lack of sense and IQ.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

To put things in context:

Going after someone's girl friend-- really bad.
Slashing tires or keying cars from opposing schools, if such occurred in Vermillion-- inexcusable.
Going after Bobby Knight-- Hillarious
Going after Billy Tubbs-- Well deserved.
Shirtless fat guy on You Tube-- Remember someone just like that at USD-SDSU games (one of ours in Vermillion). Difference was he was equipped with an air horn.

I still maintain that the Antlers, along with the Cameron Crazies and other similar groups have a place, and that place is behind the buckets, well isolated, and not allowed to harass normal, innocent fans attending with families.

Norm Stewart was relatively young when he bought his SCI (UNI) clubs to Brookings. They dumped him on his butt in 1999 and bought in a guy with a funny haircut. Norm, like me, was pretty old and no-doubt not politically correct, but he realized that the Antlers, more than just about anybody else resurrected fan interest at Mizzou.

Much of what is described there reminds me somewhat of the games I attended in Vermillion and Brookings in the sixties. I guess times change, and I'm ready to accept that. I just don't think you're going to get that kind of interest out of Centenary or Oral Roberts. If what I remember (again, bb-- not fb) hasn't existed since the early seventies, then that's too bad. KU-Missouri, Duke-Carolina, and Texas-Oklahoma are all brands with a lot of worth. If USD-SDSU was allowed to go bad, somebody screwed up really badly.

When I attended OU in the late sixties, football and wrestling were really something. I don't think men's (probably all there was at that time) basketball drew over a thousand for most games. Future Suns coach John McLeod, the players, cheerleaders and a few people snoozing in the corners of an old gym. Unless you were in a frat, Norman was a lot deader than Brookings. Especially on basketball nights.

That changed greatly by the time Billy Tubbs was being stalked by the Antlers. Bad behavior and all, things were a lot better in 1994 than they were in 1969. Hopefully SDSU will find other opponents. If some rowdy youth get the attendance up from 2,500 to 5,000 it will be well worth it. Norm Stewart is on mark with his appreciation.

[JackJD]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I went on a long rant last night on this topic....decided to just wipe it out. I've enjoyed the break from the strife associated with playing USD in basketball and football. I hope the break continues as long as possible but I know that there will be a day when the two schools meet on the gridiron or basketball court.

[Nidaros]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

If this is the way college athletics are and seem to be the norm count me out. I have seen all of that juvinile behavior I need. I have not always agreed with what the SDSU athletic department has done but they have good crowd control and I appreciate that. We shoud be able to go to the games, and enjoy them without using them to show the world our lack of sense and IQ.

Agreed and I dont miss the Augustana carrots and subsequent technical fouls either. I don't believe any institution that is making a knowledge difference in this modern world should tolerate this kind of behavior. There is a point in time when we must finally grow up. The event belongs to the institution and not immature people who are some times students. Opps getting pietistic again. Time to stop.

[jackmd]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

For me its relatively simple. I want to see a rivalry built upon respect not hatred. USD's athletic department and fans have a long way to go when it comes to earning that respect. I don't need my car door kicked and dented or to be stopped in the street and harassed by a group of drunken idiots representing our so-called rival. USD needs to move it up to our level before serious discussions about playing them again are undertaken. Again, thats what I feel.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

For me its relatively simple. I want to see a rivalry built upon respect not hatred. USD's athletic department and fans have a long way to go when it comes to earning that respect. I don't need my car door kicked and dented or to be stopped in the street and harassed by a group of drunken idiots representing our so-called rival. USD needs to move it up to our level before serious discussions about playing them again are undertaken. Again, thats what I feel.

Well, that post will definitely take us into smackdom!

SUPERBUNNY

[joeboo22]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

You are whistling at the moon joe, if you think USD is going to say they will agree to play at our house without a return. Forget them...your scenarios are fine, but they won't happen. Now if USD wants to pay us $300,000 to go down to Vermillion to play football, we MIGHT consider that for 2010 or 2011.

It might take USD hundreds of thousands to get home games.... no team is going to want to come play in that thing they call a dome....

[filbert]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

USD will get home games the same way we did in the beginning--lots of 2 for 1 contracts and a couple of early years with home games heavy on D-II, D-III, and/or NAIA schools.

I'd guess we're going to see USD put in permanent seats on the other side of the Dome in the next 5 years. It'll still be a horrible facility for basketball but it could potentially be a decent FCS football facility.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I agree with Filbert, the plan will be to get dome down to just football, with basketball having its own new facility first, and farther down the road new facility for track, swimming, etc. Not sure how long it will take them to get there, but I would imagine that would be the plan.

[Jack4Life]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I went on a long rant last night on this topic....decided to just wipe it out. I've enjoyed the break from the strife associated with playing USD in basketball and football. I hope the break continues as long as possible but I know that there will be a day when the two schools meet on the gridiron or basketball court.

I agree. Don't miss it. It does us no good till they are a counter. When we play them, it will be too soon. The love of this game left a long time ago. Hopefully, if and when it is rekindled, the students and alums forget the past and get the old days behind us. The interest in this game was fading in the last years. The break is good for everyone.