"Why not State and the U"

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

It sounds like the U is having problems getting its conference mates to schedule them next year. From Terry's Blog

http://blogs.argusleadermedia.com/sports/category/sdsu/

"Also, commissioner Ed Grom said that UND has scheduled Poly, Davis and Southern Utah in 2008, its first year in the league, and that USD is trying to do the same. If that doesn’t happen, the Coyotes will still be eligible for the league title, with a game against a team of comprable RPI substituting for a conference tilt."

My take: Poly, Davis & SUU are willing to play a non-counter with the long-time national rep of UND, but not USD.

[jackmd]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

It will happen again, just because they're close proximity, and after they're into transition a couple of years, likely to be a reasonable warm up for the Gateway or Summit Conference.

However, there is little reason to start this up when the U doesn't count.

I am very please to see the home/home with Cal Poly in 08 & 09. They came thru for the Jacks when they should have said no. More than can be said for our co-NCC founding cohorts.

I agree. I don't miss beating up on USD one bit. Once they ascend to a nearly equal level I'd be happy to schedule them as a warm-up or a mid-season respite. In fact, I look forward to it.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I think the games will be played again but only when they are right for SDSU. I see no reason to play them until they count as Div I games and I don't see offering them a level playing field (home n home for example) until we are both on the same level (Full D-I members).

You've got it right eqguy. I've offered Mr. Lalley (via a letter to the editor) a simple solution: convince his alma mater to offer SDSU $300,000 for a game in Vermillion as Iowa State will do next year; or ask them to apply for a non-conference spot at Coughlin when our schedule allows it.

In basketball (both men and women), SDSU can play two exhibition games at Frost. He can get AD Nielsen to ask us to schedule them as one of our exhibition games when our schedule allows.

[JackFan96]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

What will increase interest is going after conference championships and getting into the playoffs, neither of which will be aided by playing USD until they get through transistion. I vote no, no, no.

The fact that the Argus editorial board is for it is all the proof I need that its a BAD idea right now. Their motivation is clear generate economic development for Sioux Falls by getting the game played in a stadium with 2/3rds of what Coughlin holds. Vote No early and often!

I think the column was just from a single writer in this case, not the editorial board. I think it's just his take and has nothing to do with economic development for Sioux Falls. And, I must say (at the risk of being more unpopular than Stu Witney), I want to again play USD. It's time to move on, move forward. There were poor attitudes on both sides. There still are. In some cases, I'd say they are beyond poor and have reached an unhealthy level. Hey, we can claim NDSU as a great rival, and we can say Northern Iowa will be a wonderful future rival, but it was always about beating the U back in the day. At least to me. I loved those games far more than any other. Nothing was better than beating the Coyotes, nothing was a crappy as losing to them. Others agreed. The stadiums/arenas were always full. Time to put USD back on the schedule ... and the sooner the better. I hope USD and UND wind up in the Summit League. And I think we should work with USD and maybe UND, too, to make room for them on our football schedule. People in the Dakotas cared a lot about those games. And that makes perfect sense. They don't care as much about UMKC or Oral Roberts, even if they are full D-I schools. They just don't. And, I must admit, nor do I. Forward-thinking, ho! OK, let the crucifiction begin.

[JackJD]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

Okay, we've read the minority report.

[Jacks-D1]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I'm with JackFan96 100%. I don't disagree with anything in his post and I believe the majority of fans feel this way as well as most "casual" fans. It seems to me the only people that don't want to see State-U games anymore are the hard core fans (such as those that take the time to post on an SDSU fan board). I believe the vast majority of average South Dakotans want to see State-U games again because it is a natural rivalry and its what most average South Dakotans would talk about. I don't think most average South Dakotans would talk about State-Oral Roberts or State-Western Illinois or State-UMKC or care all that much. Obviously the hard core State fan cares about these games but the average fan doesn't. But the average fan is interested in regional schools like USD, NDSU, UND. IMO, if we want to succeed at the D1 level we have to get the average fan interested, otherwise its just going to be the core 2,000 people showing up for the State-Centenary or the State-Oakland game.

[jackmd]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I'm with JackFan96 100%. I don't disagree with anything in his post and I believe the majority of fans feel this way as well as most "casual" fans. It seems to me the only people that don't want to see State-U games anymore are the hard core fans (such as those that take the time to post on an SDSU fan board). I believe the vast majority of average South Dakotans want to see State-U games again because it is a natural rivalry and its what most average South Dakotans would talk about. I don't think most average South Dakotans would talk about State-Oral Roberts or State-Western Illinois or State-UMKC or care all that much. Obviously the hard core State fan cares about these games but the average fan doesn't. But the average fan is interested in regional schools like USD, NDSU, UND. IMO, if we want to succeed at the D1 level we have to get the average fan interested, otherwise its just going to be the core 2,000 people showing up for the State-Centenary or the State-Oakland game.

Your logic is flawed. State-U was a big rivalry and can become one again but I'd like to think we can establish a bigger and better one with another program. What you have presented is short-sighted and lacks inspiration. Some of us want it to be better, not the same. Wish I had time to say more right now.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

... but it was always about beating the U back in the day. At least to me.

I think this is the part of the equation that most SDSU fans, casual and hardcore, would disagree with. What was right for SDSU "back in the day" may or may not be right for SDSU now. I think most people think of me as a hardcore fan, and when I explain why SDSU should not play USD now, most casual fans respond in a manner of "yeah, it can wait."

I think that no matter what happens, it will be hard to establish the rivalry of the past. USD will not be the rival they used to be because the games will have no conference inpact for the near future and most likely they won't be a conference opponent in ALL sports. If and when we start playing against USD, it will be more like our past games against Northern State than the games of old against USD. Just my opinion.

[BTownJack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

Your logic is flawed. State-U was a big rivalry and can become one again but I'd like to think we can establish a bigger and better one with another program. What you have presented is short-sighted and lacks inspiration. Some of us want it to be better, not the same. Wish I had time to say more right now.

Can I get an Amen!!!!!

[EQguy]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I will say again that I believe the games will be played again and they probably should be played again, if nothing else but for bragging rights in the state and to start the friendly battles again (unfortunately the unfriendly ones have to come along with it).

BUT

The games should not be played at a cost to SDSU or their standing in D-I (in other words playing a "non-counter" ). As 96 said back in the day it was all about beating the U. I think we have seen since the move that it is now about making the football playoffs and winning a national championship not just winning one game. It has also become about being involved in March Madness at the highest level. We should not be willing to sacrifice that just for one game to pick up an extra 5000 ticket sales.

With football we have 9 conference games and more than likely 1 payday game. When current contracts that were written before the move to the Gateway are satisfied we should look to scheduling USD. But that looks like it won't happen until 2010 or so. That is fine with me. USD people can scream all they want about STATE not scheduling them but facts are facts, the schedule is written. I don't know where basketball is at for scheduling but I don't see as much harm in scheduling a few dates in Frost with USD as soon as they are a "counter".

[BTownJack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I would also argue if USD was in SDSU's shoes and visa-versa we'd be having the same argument...just the other way around. So I don't have much time for people who blame SDSU or the administrators of either school. Look at the facts and the big picture and you'll begin to realize why the game isn't getting played.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I would also argue if USD was in SDSU's shoes and visa-versa we'd be having the same argument...just the other way around. So I don't have much time for people who blame SDSU or the administrators of either school. Look at the facts and the big picture and you'll begin to realize why the game isn't getting played.

Absolutely correct.

[Jack4Life]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I just don't think this game is that important at this time. Like it has been said above, it SDSU and USD were turned around, they would feel the same way. Until they are a full counter, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of playing the U. Especially they way they felt about our move and now they are chasing the issues we faced without any help. Make sure it is in our best interest if and when we play them again. I don't hear any outcry from the U that we should be playing them at this time.

[jackmd]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I would also argue if USD was in SDSU's shoes and visa-versa we'd be having the same argument...just the other way around. So I don't have much time for people who blame SDSU or the administrators of either school. Look at the facts and the big picture and you'll begin to realize why the game isn't getting played.

Nor should you have time for those who even suggest SDSU is at fault in anyway. Our success at the DII level was exactly the reason we decided to move up to DI. We did not want to be complacent or satisfied with what many considered the best we could do (classic SD logic). SDSU and NDSU were at the top of one of the best DII conferences in the nation. Both are land grant institutions and both resembled DI counterparts throughout the US. We need to play those institutions, not teams currently at lower levels. Facts are facts, ignorance and fear of change are not excuses or reasons for compromise. Onward and upward is the best attitude as it applies to our regional rivals.

Augie and USF are NOT SDSU. I don't think I need to say anymore than that.

As an aside, am I the only one who has never agreed with anything Lalley has written? He seems about as far from the South Dakota ideal as anyone I know. I can think of a lot of USD grads like that.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: "Why not State and the U"

I moved to Milwaukee in 1967, the year of my graduation and listened on the radio as Marquette visited Vermillion. Gary Brill and godknows who against Jack Theeler and company. Remember Al McGuire saying it was the worst snake pit he'd ever been in and he would not be returning. Think Marquette won by single digits.

I cheered for USD, even though I was living in Wisconsin and generally wished Marquette well. Not sure what has happened in the past forty years. In football in the mid-sixties both USD and SDSU were pathetic, although a close game was a lot better than getting pounded by UND and NDSU.

The basketball series were always entertaining, complete with raining coyotes and jackrabbits, thrown bottles, parading outhouses, huge cowbells, etc. Whether Vermillion or Brookings, you were in the Varsity or Horts by noon rock bands blaring, usually standing in line sobering up by six and hung over by half time. I was in a rock band that booked Horatios for a share of the gate in 1967. Think we got screwed over but we cleared a lot more $$$ than the normal dance gig.

I'm confused and saddened by the calls for revenge on both the SDSU and NDSU threads. I don't understand it and the people from other schools who monitor anygivensaturday don't either. The last course I took (post grad) was at SIU-E. I know most of the public administration faculty over there and think it's a good school In fact, there's a small chance that I'll retire in Edwardsville. It doesn't have the reputation of either of the four major schools in the Dakotas, however.

I guess times change and the fans will pack it in for Oral Roberts and ignore any games with USD, whether football or basketball. It is a serious and damaging divide for a very small state, however. Your population is only twice the size of this medium sized suburban county I live in (St. Charles: 350,000). To have this kind of bad feelings in your two major schools is damaging to the state.

I realize, however that I'm a dinosaur and you can't go back to the sixties, so I hope SDSU and USD never play each other in any sport again. Too much water under the bridge, you can't go back again. It should be over---forever. Doubt if the Oral Roberts fans will bother showing up, though-- and even if they do doubt that they'll be drunk by noon and hung over by six.