Augie plays for D2 title

[filbert]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Dumbest argument on the internet.

Augie had an amazing year and had a couple dominate players. How that translates to the next level? Well....we'll never know.

Oh, no, there are dumber ones.

But this one is a worthy entrant in the DUMB-Argument-Stupid-Stuff League.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

(League acronym was serendipitous. Couldn't resist, though.)

[Kemo]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I've thought this many times over the past couple of years. I'd imagine the explanation will be that Nagy turned Moffit into a starter-worthy caliber guard during his time at SDSU. As if that somehow couldn't/wouldn't have been the case with any of Augie's current players.

For reference, Moffitt started 6 of 8 games as a freshman at USF before going down with an injury, averaging 5.4 point per game and 2.5 rebounds in 21 minutes per game.

The Moffitt scenario is something to take into account when considering which Augie players could have been D1 players and what contributions they could have made.

The most important thing to remember is that Keaton wasn't a D1 player when he joined the Jacks roster, hence why he walked on, but he also didn't have any physical limitations that would have kept him from becoming a contributor at the D1 level either. Moffitt is 6'4" and was athletic enough to combine it with his intelligence and effort to be a good D1 defensive player. Even with this, though, it wouldn't have been enough for him to see the floor if he didn't add a lot of strength, improved his ball handling, and added some scoring moves to counter his sub par shooting (think of the really quick scoop shot he developed that allowed him to score past long, secondary defenders).

While there is no doubt the SDSU coaching and strength staff gave Moffitt the tools to become a "starter-worthy caliber guard" for us, it was Keaton who turned himself into a D1 player, not the other way around.

So back to the Augie players: Who were D1 caliber?

Schilling, in my book, was no doubt a mid major 4. Though undersized, his combination of strength, size, athleticism, and skill would have more than made up for it and he would have been a Tellinghuisen type player, though Telly is more of a 3 and Schilling is more of a 4. There also isn't really any part of his game from what I saw that would work at the DII level but not translate to D1, which is always something to consider. It's hard to say exactly what kind of stats/minutes Schilling would have had as a Jack, especially considering this hypothetical is just throwing him on the SDSU team rather than having him be part of the Jackrabbit program for 4 to 5 years, but I'd have to imagine Nagy would love his toughest and effort and would have utilized it to the fullest extent.

Janssen definitely has a D1 offensive game, though his points per game at the D1 level would likely be closer to 10 than 20. There really isn't anything about his offensive game in my mind that wouldn't translate to the D1 level. He's 6'9", which is plenty tall for a mid major post, and he has the skill and coordination to score inside and out. Sure, he wouldn't regularly get as deep of position on the block and would have to shoot over slightly taller/more athletic defenders than he did in D2, but nothing about his offensive game made be think he was only getting away with it because he was playing against DII competition.

Janssen's current defensive game, however, is not up to snuff for D1. The question really is, does he have the ability to be a serviceable mid major defender? I think he probably has the physical attributes to defend better than his current state, but there is a lot of mental toughness and effort that does into defending the post as well. I'm certain there are plenty of lower D1 teams that would take Janssen "as is", but in terms of him playing for Nagy, I'm not sure coach would let him see the floor much at the current rate. Of course, one could also factor in Janssen starting out at SDSU, which he would either been forced to learn to play better defense in order to see the floor, or he would likely have transferred out. Which way he would have went, I have no clue.

In terms of other players:

Ritcher is a good shot, but I doubt he would be much of a D1 contributor due to his defense and inability to create his own shot.

Huisken could probably be a backup post in the Summit due to his size and length, but wouldn't be much more than that.

Spencer could probably run the point for a low major team, though his on the ball defense wouldn't be good.

Warren is probably a D1 athlete, so if his skill level continues to improve, he definitely could be a D1 contributor down the road.


Once again, this is all clearly hypothetical and there really is no way of knowing how a player would respond to a different situation until they are put into it. There are countless players who were less physically gifted than the average D1 basketball player that managed to have good D1 careers and there have been plenty of physically gifted athletes that couldn't hack it at the highest level of college ball.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The Moffitt scenario is something to take into account when considering which Augie players could have been D1 players and what contributions they could have made.

The most important thing to remember is that Keaton wasn't a D1 player when he joined the Jacks roster, hence why he walked on, but he also didn't have any physical limitations that would have kept him from becoming a contributor at the D1 level either. Moffitt is 6'4" and was athletic enough to combine it with his intelligence and effort to be a good D1 defensive player. Even with this, though, it wouldn't have been enough for him to see the floor if he didn't add a lot of strength, improved his ball handling, and added some scoring moves to counter his sub par shooting (think of the really quick scoop shot he developed that allowed him to score past long, secondary defenders).

While there is no doubt the SDSU coaching and strength staff gave Moffitt the tools to become a "starter-worthy caliber guard" for us, it was Keaton who turned himself into a D1 player, not the other way around.

So back to the Augie players: Who were D1 caliber?

Schilling, in my book, was no doubt a mid major 4. Though undersized, his combination of strength, size, athleticism, and skill would have more than made up for it and he would have been a Tellinghuisen type player, though Telly is more of a 3 and Schilling is more of a 4. There also isn't really any part of his game from what I saw that would work at the DII level but not translate to D1, which is always something to consider. It's hard to say exactly what kind of stats/minutes Schilling would have had as a Jack, especially considering this hypothetical is just throwing him on the SDSU team rather than having him be part of the Jackrabbit program for 4 to 5 years, but I'd have to imagine Nagy would love his toughest and effort and would have utilized it to the fullest extent.

Janssen definitely has a D1 offensive game, though his points per game at the D1 level would likely be closer to 10 than 20. There really isn't anything about his offensive game in my mind that wouldn't translate to the D1 level. He's 6'9", which is plenty tall for a mid major post, and he has the skill and coordination to score inside and out. Sure, he wouldn't regularly get as deep of position on the block and would have to shoot over slightly taller/more athletic defenders than he did in D2, but nothing about his offensive game made be think he was only getting away with it because he was playing against DII competition.

Janssen's current defensive game, however, is not up to snuff for D1. The question really is, does he have the ability to be a serviceable mid major defender? I think he probably has the physical attributes to defend better than his current state, but there is a lot of mental toughness and effort that does into defending the post as well. I'm certain there are plenty of lower D1 teams that would take Janssen "as is", but in terms of him playing for Nagy, I'm not sure coach would let him see the floor much at the current rate. Of course, one could also factor in Janssen starting out at SDSU, which he would either been forced to learn to play better defense in order to see the floor, or he would likely have transferred out. Which way he would have went, I have no clue.

In terms of other players:

Ritcher is a good shot, but I doubt he would be much of a D1 contributor due to his defense and inability to create his own shot.

Huisken could probably be a backup post in the Summit due to his size and length, but wouldn't be much more than that.

Spencer could probably run the point for a low major team, though his on the ball defense wouldn't be good.

Warren is probably a D1 athlete, so if his skill level continues to improve, he definitely could be a D1 contributor down the road.


Once again, this is all clearly hypothetical and there really is no way of knowing how a player would respond to a different situation until they are put into it. There are countless players who were less physically gifted than the average D1 basketball player that managed to have good D1 careers and there have been plenty of physically gifted athletes that couldn't hack it at the highest level of college ball.

The fact that they were recruited by SDSU, no matter how lightly, means that they could play at the mid-major level.

I think many on here are confusing "play at a mid major" with "star at a mid major." Just like a good majority of guys that star at the mid major level wouldn't have the same success at a Duke or Kentucky.

That being said, I'm really confused why some on this message board are so eager to tear other teams/players down. There is a very big inferiority complex with some posters.

I, for one, root for all the South Dakota teams to have success. They only time I root against them is when they play my Yellow and Blue.

[JackJD]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

(I'm hoping Augie's success will lead to their own fan message board! Maybe a question that merits more discussion is whether there are USD players who could play for Augie? I'm cutting a large slice of pie to eat while this thread goes quietly into the night.)

[Kemo]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The fact that they were recruited by SDSU, no matter how lightly, means that they could play at the mid-major level.

I think many on here are confusing "play at a mid major" with "star at a mid major." Just like a good majority of guys that star at the mid major level wouldn't have the same success at a Duke or Kentucky.

That being said, I'm really confused why some on this message board are so eager to tear other teams/players down. There is a very big inferiority complex with some posters.

I, for one, root for all the South Dakota teams to have success. They only time I root against them is when they play my Yellow and Blue.

1) There are plenty of kids that were recruited to play D1 and couldn't hack it, just as there are D2 kids that weren't recruited D1 but could play at that level. Not sure how "interest" due to a kids high school career has any baring on a post-collegiate career evaluation.

2) Can't speak for others, but I'm not confusing playing vs. staring at all. Just giving an honest assessment.

3) Very few, if any, were tearing down Augie. The question was brought up and people gave their opinion.

4) Myself, and apparently lots of other Jackrabbit fans, were rooting for Augie to win it all. I am generally happy to see SD teams and players succeed regardless of level.

[filbert]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The fact that they were recruited by SDSU, no matter how lightly, means that they could play at the mid-major level.

I think many on here are confusing "play at a mid major" with "star at a mid major." Just like a good majority of guys that star at the mid major level wouldn't have the same success at a Duke or Kentucky.

That being said, I'm really confused why some on this message board are so eager to tear other teams/players down. There is a very big inferiority complex with some posters.

I, for one, root for all the South Dakota teams to have success. They only time I root against them is when they play my Yellow and Blue.

Discuss posts, not posters.

Don't make me turn this car around.

[2002jack]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

My dad could kick your dads ass in a fight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JackJD]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

My dad could kick your dads ass in a fight.

Well, yeah. That's a little bit of what's going on here. It's a dumb discussion. You can predict that some think there are players on Augie's team who would make SDSU's roster (okay, for the sake of discussion, I'll be in that camp) and others who think they wouldn't. Maybe a more refined question is whether SDSU's coaching staff would seek those players. If we're trying to build the program and team that gets into position to go the distance, do we recruit players who just make the team or do we recruit guys that the coaches think will fit into a system and take us all the way? And how high do we shoot in recruiting? The coaches have to conclude some players are out of our reach and if we spend all our time pursuing such players, we find ourselves starting a season with a roster of guys pulled in from third floor Binnewies.

Personally, I think it's established that some answer the Augie poster's question yes and some say no. At the same time, it appears everyone is uniformly pleased for Augie's success and nobody wants to take anything away from bringing home the National Championship trophy. Beyond that is a waste of precious bandwidth.

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

My dad could kick your dads ass in a fight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not if your dad went D2.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

(I'm hoping Augie's success will lead to their own fan message board! Maybe a question that merits more discussion is whether there are USD players who could play for Augie? I'm cutting a large slice of pie to eat while this thread goes quietly into the night.)

USD doesnt have any DII caliber players. They are all DIII caliber. Lucky to not have finished 9th in conference. They suck.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The fact that they were recruited by SDSU, no matter how lightly, means that they could play at the mid-major level.

I think many on here are confusing "play at a mid major" with "star at a mid major." Just like a good majority of guys that star at the mid major level wouldn't have the same success at a Duke or Kentucky.

That being said, I'm really confused why some on this message board are so eager to tear other teams/players down. There is a very big inferiority complex with some posters.

I, for one, root for all the South Dakota teams to have success. They only time I root against them is when they play my Yellow and Blue.

Great post. IMO, there are a several guys on Augie's roster who could have contributed in the Summit. In the right situation, maybe a couple even excel/star.

It is insane that posters want to tear Augie down, when one of our major contributors this year was a transfer from USF...

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

It is insane that posters want to tear Augie down, when one of our major contributors this year was a transfer from USF...

Wisdom here. We were lucky to get Keaton Moffitt and who knows down the road, he might be a distinguished Alum, earning it in the field of pharmacy. As far as Augie, this year they did have a ton of talent on the court and probably in the classroom too. Its how they do in the classroom that matters to me. Just ask someone who finished academically near the bottom of my class. You think grades don't matter? I am afraid they do, and it going to matter more in the future as competition for good jobs and positions of authority is not to weaken any time soon.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

(I'm hoping Augie's success will lead to their own fan message board! Maybe a question that merits more discussion is whether there are USD players who could play for Augie? I'm cutting a large slice of pie to eat while this thread goes quietly into the night.)

USD doesnt have any DII caliber players. They are all DIII caliber. Lucky to not have finished 9th in conference. They suck.

Finally, something everyone on here can agree on.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Honestly, I'm just glad to see this discussion reach a point of reason on both sides. A National Championship for Augie, a handful of SDSU fans setting aside the "Augie sucks because they're D2" mindset...it's like Christmas and my birthday rolled into one.

For those who are annoyed by the discussion, isn't that the point of these message boards? We're in the Beyond SDSU > College Sports section discussing a college sports-related topic that clearly draws interest and has been, in my opinion, entertaining and engaging to discuss on both sides of the argument. Isn't it better to have that kind of conversation and activity happening on these boards than to shun it because it's not strictly about SDSU sports or because a few people don't like hypothetical discussions or discussions about Augie? Seems to me it's a lot more fun to visit this board and chat like we are here than it is to visit the USD board, where they have 1-2 fans posting on game nights and assertively try to shut down just about any attempts to talk about anything besides the coyotes.

Maybe that's just me though.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The discussion in Augie Land is the possibility of moving up to D1. The Argus has a big article on it. The AD, who was at SDSU, does not sound like it would work. One sport at D1, Mens BB and the rest at D2 is not part of AD or the President's vision for the athletic dept. I think moving up would require dropping football which they have made commitments such as the new facility that makes that not a option at this time. So the bottom line is be proud of the NC and the exhibition win over Iowa and stay put at the D2 level. Purely from a financial angle, this seems to be the solution.