Augie plays for D2 title

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Would any of Jansen's talent been curtailed if he played against a good defensive player? Or did he get challenged regularly during the season? You have already indicated that he is not a solid defensive player.

I think Jansen and Schilling could have contributed but I am skeptical that they would have been all-conference first teamers. This opinion is based on some of the guys who have left SDSU after not getting much PT and then dominated at DII like Monaghan and Prince, for instance Prince put up a 26 and 10 average this year as a 6'3" guard!

You have to consider the level of competition they are playing against when looking at their offensive numbers. Daum putting up 16 and 6 against Maryland is just a tad different than Schilling or Jansen putting up 20 and 10 or whatever against Lincoln Memorial.

Again, this isn't to denigrate them as players, I think either of those guys would have helped SDSU this year and possibly even started, but I don't think either would have been the best player on our team.

I didn't indicate he's not a "solid" defensive player. I described it as "less than exceptional." I think of solid as being competent, and he's competent, just not excellent the way Schilling is excellent.

Your wording of "if he played against a good defensive player" seems to indicate that you don't think Jansen ever played against any "good" (by your standard) defensive players this year. He went up against each team's best big man defender each night of the season and averaged 20 ppg. He also put up 19 points and 4 boards in 25 minutes primarily going up against Adam Woodbury in the Iowa game (who played 33 minutes), and Woodbury is a reasonably sound defensive player who happened to have three inches on him. Admittedly, it wasn't Dan's best game of the year and he took a decent number of shots (8-17, with 3 of those misses being threes), but I think it's reasonable to think he would have had solid--again, solid the way I defined solid above--games against other talented/higher-level defenders if he was given the opportunity.

EDIT: Cutting my reply to Jacks-02's post. Just re-read his post and saw his closing line, which essentially sums up the point I've been trying to make this whole time. Sorry for missing that on the first read-through.

[Bits]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I'm going to ask an honest question here (in the sense that I'm hoping for an honest, genuine answer). Keep in mind that, if this were an in-person conversation, I'd be asking this question in a normal, level-headed tone. This isn't an angry, heated discussion or anything. I just want genuine reflection and conversation about it.

Do you truly think that the National Division II Player of the Year (according to both the National Association of Basketball Coaches and D2 Bulletin) wouldn't have made more of a difference for you guys than some of the bigs on your roster right now?

I'll admit that Daum might be better than Jansen today and will be a better overall player by the time he graduates, but do you really think Jansen (and Schilling, but particularly Jansen, since Schilling is slightly undersized) wouldn't have done more for you guys this year than Connor Devine and Logan Doyle? And, if you look at it objectively, if you dropped Ian Theissen onto this Augie team in place of Jansen this year, do you honestly think he is good enough to earn Division II National Player of the Year honors, skill and athleticism-wise? I know Theissen is younger than Jansen, but, statistically, Jansen was almost equally as impressive last year as he's been this year, so it's not like Jansen made a huge jump between his junior and seniors seasons. And regarding Jansen's less than exceptional defense, you're telling me you wouldn't take Jansen's more than competent offense and limited defensive liabilities over Devine's non-existent offense and moderate to slightly above average defensive abilities?

If you can say yes to those questions, then I won't be able to change your mind and I won't spend much more time trying, but if you are just saying that because Jansen is a D2 player, he's not good enough...without trying to look at what that actually means in the context of the current players on your roster, I feel like you're just being dismissive and unrealistic because he's not currently a D1 basketball player.

But as more than a few people have said to me, I probably try to hard to defend these guys sometimes. Regardless, I'm beyond happy they didn't end up in Jacks blue and yellow one way or the other. Blue and gold has suited them just fine as far as I'm concerned.

First off, congratulations Augustana on the National Championship! You earned it and had a great team, good job representing the state of South Dakota!

Jansen is a great scorer and I do think his offensive talent would have translated to the hypothetical - "if he was on SDSU's team" that you posed. I don't think his numbers would have been as eye-popping, but I do think he would be more than a role player. Count me in the group that thinks Schilling was by far your best basketball player. He did a few things that Jansen could not do, most notably guarding many different positions. I've watched Augie play in person a hand full of times over the last couple of years. If you were to hold a draft of Augie's team, Schilling would be my first pick. This is not meant as a knock against Jansen because he was no doubt great at Augie, just stating that I feel Schilling was the better player and made your much better overall.

Disclaimer: I am not a basketball expert, I'm just giving my opinion on the "if these guys were on SDSU's team" alternate to reality.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I'm going to ask an honest question here (in the sense that I'm hoping for an honest, genuine answer). Keep in mind that, if this were an in-person conversation, I'd be asking this question in a normal, level-headed tone. This isn't an angry, heated discussion or anything. I just want genuine reflection and conversation about it.

Do you truly think that the National Division II Player of the Year (according to both the National Association of Basketball Coaches and D2 Bulletin) wouldn't have made more of a difference for you guys than some of the bigs on your roster right now?

I'll admit that Daum might be better than Jansen today and will be a better overall player by the time he graduates, but do you really think Jansen (and Schilling, but particularly Jansen, since Schilling is slightly undersized) wouldn't have done more for you guys this year than Connor Devine and Logan Doyle? And, if you look at it objectively, if you dropped Ian Theissen onto this Augie team in place of Jansen this year, do you honestly think he is good enough to earn Division II National Player of the Year honors, skill and athleticism-wise? I know Theissen is younger than Jansen, but, statistically, Jansen was almost equally as impressive last year as he's been this year, so it's not like Jansen made a huge jump between his junior and seniors seasons. And regarding Jansen's less than exceptional defense, you're telling me you wouldn't take Jansen's more than competent offense and limited defensive liabilities over Devine's non-existent offense and moderate to slightly above average defensive abilities?

If you can say yes to those questions, then I won't be able to change your mind and I won't spend much more time trying, but if you are just saying that because Jansen is a D2 player, he's not good enough...without trying to look at what that actually means in the context of the current players on your roster, I feel like you're just being dismissive and unrealistic because he's not currently a D1 basketball player.

But as more than a few people have said to me, I probably try to hard to defend these guys sometimes. Regardless, I'm beyond happy they didn't end up in Jacks blue and yellow one way or the other. Blue and gold has suited them just fine as far as I'm concerned.

No I don't think Jansen would have made a difference in a positive way for SDSU. He's worse than Daum offensively. He worse than the other two posts defensively by a large margin. The guard who lit it up for Augie in the title game looked slow on defense and unathletic. Like I said originally, Schilling was the only one worth a damn defensively, and he's undersized to the point where he'd see very limited minutes.

I honestly don't think I'm being dismissive of D2 players. But if I could tell that they were slow/unathletic/not that great defensively against a division two team ...

Saying any of these guys would have started at SDSU this year seems ridiculous. This argument is also ridiculous, cause even if I'm completely wrong (doubtful ) there's no way to prove any of it.

Congrats to Augie on winning. Their style of play is super entertaining to watch. I love coaches that let their teams run and actually play offense.

[RochJack69]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

The proof is in the pudding. Their professional basketball career will tell.

[JacksFTW]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I think Jansen could have had more of a role than what most of you are giving him. Admittedly, I have not seen Jansen play, but Moffitt got a lot of time and he was not a conference player of the year caliber player at USF.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

No I don't think Jansen would have made a difference in a positive way for SDSU. He's worse than Daum offensively. He worse than the other two posts defensively by a large margin. The guard who lit it up for Augie in the title game looked slow on defense and unathletic. Like I said originally, Schilling was the only one worth a damn defensively, and he's undersized to the point where he'd see very limited minutes.

I honestly don't think I'm being dismissive of D2 players. But if I could tell that they were slow/unathletic/not that great defensively against a division two team ...

Saying any of these guys would have started at SDSU this year seems ridiculous. This argument is also ridiculous, cause even if I'm completely wrong (doubtful ) there's no way to prove any of it.

Congrats to Augie on winning. Their style of play is super entertaining to watch. I love coaches that let their teams run and actually play offense.

Don't know if I agree with a ton in this post besides the part about ultimately having no way to prove it and the comments about Augie's style of play, but since I said I wouldn't spend much more time trying to change your mind if you disagreed, I'll stick to that.

For the record though, again, I never said they'd start for you guys, so unless you're saying it's ridiculous because an SDSU fan has suggested it, that statement shouldn't apply to me. I did indicate that I think Theissen and Jansen would be comparable (in my case, I'd take this year's Jansen over this year's Theissen, but I understand if others wouldn't), but never outright stated that Jansen would or should start over your current group of starters. At least, I don't think I did.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I think Jansen could have had more of a role than what most of you are giving him. Admittedly, I have not seen Jansen play, but Moffitt got a lot of time and he was not a conference player of the year caliber player at USF.

I've thought this many times over the past couple of years. I'd imagine the explanation will be that Nagy turned Moffit into a starter-worthy caliber guard during his time at SDSU. As if that somehow couldn't/wouldn't have been the case with any of Augie's current players.

For reference, Moffitt started 6 of 8 games as a freshman at USF before going down with an injury, averaging 5.4 point per game and 2.5 rebounds in 21 minutes per game.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Ugh. I can't believe I got myself sucked into this conversation again. Dumb. On the plus side for everybody, other than Levi Jansen in a couple of years, we probably won't have to worry about it coming up for a few years.

Appreciate the Jacks fans congratulating Augie on the win. Sorry for coming on and being argumentative. I just enjoy the discussion. I always try to post with good-naturedness, but I'm sure some people just see it as arguing for the sake of arguing. Regardless of whether or not any of Augie's players could play for the Jackrabbits, they did a good job of playing for Augie, and that's ultimately what's important as an Augie fan. Just fun to have the discussion.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

I really think replacing Wayne State with Augustana University might answer a great number of issues raised in this thread.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

No I don't think Jansen would have made a difference in a positive way for SDSU. He's worse than Daum offensively. He worse than the other two posts defensively by a large margin. The guard who lit it up for Augie in the title game looked slow on defense and unathletic. Like I said originally, Schilling was the only one worth a damn defensively, and he's undersized to the point where he'd see very limited minutes.

I honestly don't think I'm being dismissive of D2 players. But if I could tell that they were slow/unathletic/not that great defensively against a division two team ...

Saying any of these guys would have started at SDSU this year seems ridiculous. This argument is also ridiculous, cause even if I'm completely wrong (doubtful ) there's no way to prove any of it.

Congrats to Augie on winning. Their style of play is super entertaining to watch. I love coaches that let their teams run and actually play offense.

Don't agree with most of this.Schilling IMHO would have been a solid Mid-Major player and Janssen is better post than all but Daum on Jacks roster.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Don't know if I agree with a ton in this post besides the part about ultimately having no way to prove it and the comments about Augie's style of play, but since I said I wouldn't spend much more time trying to change your mind if you disagreed, I'll stick to that.

For the record though, again, I never said they'd start for you guys, so unless you're saying it's ridiculous because an SDSU fan has suggested it, that statement shouldn't apply to me. I did indicate that I think Theissen and Jansen would be comparable (in my case, I'd take this year's Jansen over this year's Theissen, but I understand if others wouldn't), but never outright stated that Jansen would or should start over your current group of starters. At least, I don't think I did.

I was addressing (albeit indirectly) the SDSU fan. I know it didn't come from you.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Don't agree with most of this.Schilling IMHO would have been a solid Mid-Major player and Janssen is better post than all but Daum on Jacks roster.

And I disagree. He would get torched.

[jacks1]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

And I disagree. He would get torched.

You act as if the Summit is the ACC and the Jacks are the Tarheels. Daum got absolutely torched on defense most of the year...and still racked up 74 awards. Schilling and Janssen would, without a doubt, be productive players in the Summit. All conference...maybe not, but certainly productive.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

You act as if the Summit is the ACC and the Jacks are the Tarheels. Daum got absolutely torched on defense most of the year...and still racked up 74 awards. Schilling and Janssen would, without a doubt, be productive players in the Summit. All conference...maybe not, but certainly productive.

I disagree.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Augie plays for D2 title

Dumbest argument on the internet.

Augie had an amazing year and had a couple dominate players. How that translates to the next level? Well....we'll never know.