Tickets for USD game

[Chains]

Re: Tickets for USD game

You can't expand Frost.

Or, rather, it would probably cost as much to expand Frost as it would cost to replace it. You'd have to replace all the roof structure, all the support columns--except maybe what's on the north side, new bleachers/permanent seats, new facilities, etc.

Frost seating capacity is only going to go one direction: down.

On the other hand, make sure you take a moment to savor the noise because whatever replaces Frost--whenever it is replaced--won't be that small, intimate, and noisy.

I disagree and if you would have heard Mr. Sell addressing facility upgrades Frost was or will be on that list. When SDSU gets an indoor facility for practice and they will the track around Frost will be removed. That will allow for additional seating in the upper deck - GA tickets. The east and sest side upper levels will be permanent bleachers - including the corners. That will add to the seating capacity. Clearly will not bump us up to what we use to have but NTL additional GA seating.

GBGBGJ

[SoDakJack]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I disagree and if you would have heard Mr. Sell addressing facility upgrades Frost was or will be on that list. When SDSU gets an indoor facility for practice and they will the track around Frost will be removed. That will allow for additional seating in the upper deck - GA tickets. The east and sest side upper levels will be permanent bleachers - including the corners. That will add to the seating capacity. Clearly will not bump us up to what we use to have but NTL additional GA seating.

GBGBGJ

While I agree that there is an opportunity to expand Frost in the future. I would hope that this plan is well down on the to-do list of the athletic department. As another poster pointed out, the need to expand it just is not there right now. There are many games, both in and out of conference, that do not come close to filling the arena as it already stands. I would much rather have a full arena of 5-6 thousand than have a half-full arena that seats 12,000. I believe that we have had the same discussion when it comes to CAS.

Let's have an entire season of people not being able to get in or have all the season tickets sold before we start talking about expansion too seriously.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Tickets for USD game

Frost won't be replaced for many years. It can hold over 6,000 and and as of last year we did not even average 3,000 fans. It does not need to be expanded for one game.

In 2000 we averaged just over 5400 for games at CAS. Then the football team became competitive.

Frost barely holds over 6000. Indiana vs Jackrabbits women in 07 had a reported attendance of 6053, and I think they closed the ticket booth for that one? I can't remember.

IMO, chairbacks on the upper south side reduce that number to around 5500 (if not less). Suites above would probably reduce it to around 4500 (if not less).

So in 5 years or so, we could have a 4500 seat arena with the only GA seating on the east and west ends and a student section. Maybe 1500 GA seats there?

We've sold 2000 season tickets for football. Is it unreasonable to think we could sell 2500 season tickets for basketball with Summit contending Men's and Women's basketball teams? If we get to 2000 season tickets, expect chairbacks on the upper ends as well, or GA season tickets sales.

My prediction: In 5-10 years the only way you get into a men's basketball game is if you have season tickets or know someone who does. Every home game will be on TV, and many road games as well. Student tickets will be given out via lottery or student ticket sales.

[Chains]

Re: Tickets for USD game

While I agree that there is an opportunity to expand Frost in the future. I would hope that this plan is well down on the to-do list of the athletic department. As another poster pointed out, the need to expand it just is not there right now. There are many games, both in and out of conference, that do not come close to filling the arena as it already stands. I would much rather have a full arena of 5-6 thousand than have a half-full arena that seats 12,000. I believe that we have had the same discussion when it comes to CAS.

Let's have an entire season of people not being able to get in or have all the season tickets sold before we start talking about expansion too seriously.

Absolutely agree. One of those priorities is an indoor facility which will allow our track team to practice indoors. That will allow Mr. Sell to remove the track around Frost and add additional seats. It will never get to 12,000 but I would anticipate several hundred additional seats would be available. Not only additional seats for SDSU but Frost is scheduled to host SD high school state GBB tournaments.

GBGBGJ

[zooropa]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I disagree and if you would have heard Mr. Sell addressing facility upgrades Frost was or will be on that list. When SDSU gets an indoor facility for practice and they will the track around Frost will be removed. That will allow for additional seating in the upper deck - GA tickets. The east and sest side upper levels will be permanent bleachers - including the corners. That will add to the seating capacity. Clearly will not bump us up to what we use to have but NTL additional GA seating.

GBGBGJ

Bleachers are the most dense seating arrangement you can have.
Corner seating would get back some of the seating that you'd lose with chairback seating, but not enough.

Recall that the current capacity is about 3,000 less than what Frost could hold when the bleachers could be fully extended on the upper deck (they can't anymore, that's why the top few rows are fenced off), and when the floor seats were all bleachers instead of chairback on three sides.

I don't have any definite figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if going chairback reduces capacity in any given section by one half or two-thirds. You won't get that back by putting seats in the corners.

[zooropa]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I would love to see Frost expanded upward, BTW.

That, IMO, would be the best way to keep the Frost atmosphere intact. Raise the roof, literally.

Frost arena with a cantilevered upper deck built for basketball would just absolutely deafen you.

---

The problem is, I doubt that's a feasible proposition.

[HoboJack]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I really like the expand up idea, but don't think it will happen.

If I recall correctly, I seem to remember this was discussed once upon a time. I was told that it couldn't happen due to the ground water level under the Hyper center. At this point it's not feasable to have footings that will support the weight of a cantilevered building. This is part of the reason that the long range Master Plan shows a new basketball arena to the north of the softball fields.

Although if we don't need a track there anymore, I like the idea of replacing all of the upper deck seating with corner seating around the bowl, so that all of the seats are angled towards the center of the court as opposed to the straight line the current reserved seats are in. Leave a concourse area around the back-side & have vomitory entrances to the seating. We could add a couple of suites on the West end where the press area that is no longer used is on top, if we removed the hanging baskets to improve the site lines. With an all chairback upper deck, I think the seating would be about the same as now (6500 or so). Fill that consistently with 4000 season ticket holders & we can start to consider the new building.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Tickets for USD game

Expanding Frost upward is NEVER going to happen. Ever. The logistics and cost of doing something like that would make it not feasible.

It's almost certain new columns would need to be installed and I am sure the current foundation was not designed to carry an extra level. Adding load carrying capacity to a foundation is terribly expensive. The timeline of a project like this would also wreak havoc. I am sure it couldn't be done in one off season (Mid-March to Nov.), so where do the Jacks play until then?

In the long run it may be cheaper to build a new basketball arena than add on to Frost if it's even possible.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Tickets for USD game

Expanding Frost upward is NEVER going to happen. Ever. The logistics and cost of doing something like that would make it not feasible.

It's almost certain new columns would need to be installed and I am sure the current foundation was not designed to carry an extra level. Adding load carrying capacity to a foundation is terribly expensive. The timeline of a project like this would also wreak havoc. I am sure it couldn't be done in one off season (Mid-March to Nov.), so where do the Jacks play until then?

In the long run it may be cheaper to build a new basketball arena than add on to Frost if it's even possible.

Frost is an early 70's facility. Normal life expectancies for projects is typically not beyond 50 years. (What facility does SDSU need in 2080 should be the planning stages NOW). The original Frost plan included expanding north into the then baseball field. Didn't that get built?

[zooropa]

Re: Tickets for USD game

The original Frost plan included expanding north into the then baseball field. Didn't that get built?

I think the original plan was for permanent seats in the entire upper deck, with an indoor track, etc. on the north side of the HPER center.

The Briggs Library's Media Center archives should have some sketches of the original proposal. HPER was originally to have been significantly larger.

And judging by how much stuff is crammed into the HPER center now, I doubt that it was built as Phase I with an unfinished Phase II.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Tickets for USD game

The original Frost plan included expanding north into the then baseball field. Didn't that get built?

Actually, the original plan called for the north side to be the indoor facility we all now covet. It was going to be just four walls and a roof and look like Frost Arena looks on the south side of the central office portion of the HPER facility. But the costs were more than SDSU could get from the legislature, and thus it was dropped.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Tickets for USD game

If Frost could be expanded upward and outward, would it be called the "Frost Heave?"

[filbert]

Re: Tickets for USD game

If Frost could be expanded upward and outward, would it be called the "Frost Heave?"

Well played . . .

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I would love to see Frost expanded upward, BTW.

That, IMO, would be the best way to keep the Frost atmosphere intact. Raise the roof, literally.

Frost arena with a cantilevered upper deck built for basketball would just absolutely deafen you.

---

The problem is, I doubt that's a feasible proposition.

Frost Arena expansion is not even a concern until one or both of the basetball teams are filling the facility to near full capacity on a regular basis. In my mind that means an average of about 4000 per game and its nowhere close at this point.

I love Frost Arena and I was reminded of this by TV's recent comment in the blog on Thursday that Frost Arena is one of the top couple of basketball arena's in The Summit League.

If the Indoor practice facility could get built and remove the need for the indoor track around the basketball court, I think they could do a lot to make Frost and even better basketball venue with a little remodeling (ie: permanent seats all around the top level, etc).

[zooropa]

Re: Tickets for USD game

I -love- Frost Arena. And I hope that whatever replaces Frost Arena will not be some SDSU/Brookings JV that will also have to accommodate hockey--off campus.

Some of the logistic challenges of Frost, as currently constituted, are that the N. side is significantly larger than the S. side, the NE, NW, and SW corners are high traffic entry/exit points for GA (which would complicate any effort to put seating in those corners), it also functions as a practice court (three practice courts, IIRC)

Now if one were to expand Frost to the S, one would be stuck with four columns in the S. stands (assuming that you didn't replace the existing roof deck or the columns) leading to obstructed views (theoretically, the brick/block infill in the bays between the columns could be knocked out, and the arena expanded southward). Expanding southward would allow for better prefunction & concourse space, as the current setup is cramped beyond belief (well, no, the Huron Arena is cramped beyond belief).

Of course, this would create a scenario where the Swiftel Center would probably have to host the Jacks games for a season, and that facility is, well, 'basketball unfriendly' is too kind a description.... It wouldn't be as bad as watching basketball in the Dakota Dome, but it would be close.

In the end, you might end up with a scenario where you've got maybe 'round about 8,000 seats, but you've kept the intimacy of Frost Arena.

Another consideration is that expanding Frost may involve significant service facility upgrades to comply with building codes, etc. Pretty sure that you couldn't build a new arena that seats 6,500 with as little restroom capacity as Frost has--among other things.

And there's the groundwater concern mentioned earlier.

--

BTW: I'm thinking that attendance will go up pretty quickly over the next few years (look how quickly it spiked in football!).

Of course all this is blue-sky.

The concern with replacing Frost outright is that you've basically got a second 'Barn', with a lot more maintenance and upkeep costs--or you're stuck with a monumental demolition tab.