NCAA screw job

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

CAMP DIRECTOR Profile Randy Campbell</B>
rcampbell0614@msn.com </B>
Phone: 719-481-8029
Fax:719-481-6018 Currently works as an official for NCAA Division I Women's Basketball in the Big 12, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, Sun Belt, Mid-Continent, and Pac-10 conferences.
Has officiated in the NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament the past ten years, including six NCAA Regionals.
Has worked in numerous Post-Season Basketball tournaments and also works as a Football official in the Mountain West Conference.
www.stripezone.com/sz/randyCampbell.asp

Sorry about but I figured we should know something about the refs. I'll let it go now.

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

Mid-Continent,

Well, there's your problem right there.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

big 12 and mid con. We didn't have a chance such the luck.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NCAA screw job

Yeah, but the defender's going to get called on that nine times out of ten. It looked close from the initial angle, and from the ref's viewpoint behind Young, it's almost always going to be called. It wasn't a foul but it sure looked like one.

Cannot agree with this at all, that it looked close or would be called nine out of 10 times. When you look at the play and where the ref was standing (behind Jill), the turn of both players indicates that Jill does not in any way impede the Baylor player. The Baylor player (can't remember her name at the moment) begins to the outside of Jill and cuts to the middle of the court. Jill's inside and back foot fall back towards the ref indicating that she is pullling away from where the Baylor player is moving. Jill's inside arm (right) moves towards her back as the Baylor player passes. Jill's left arm is too far behind the Baylor player to have fouled her, and then she is past Jill. At no point did the Baylor player's momentum and direction get altered. At best the ref at that end of the play could not see if there was any body contact and should know that the two trailing officials would have a much better view on the play especially since it was not in a half court set.

Did that call lose the game for us? Nope.

[jackmd]

Re: NCAA screw job

Quite a discussion with a lot of interesting points. Fact is we deserved a better seed, better location to play the games and a better job of officiating regardless of any perceived bias. None of it matters now, we lost, Baylor won and they move on.

Fact, it was bush league to pull a player after she rebounded the ball and was fouled. Thats not an opinion thats a fact. If you are going to let an injured player back on the court you risk that player being further injured or fouled. She should have shot the FT's.

Mulkey has a resume that has earned her respect as one of the best coaches at the DI level. I had a certain level of respect for that until I watched her in person in Lubbock. I'll never cheer for a Mulkey coached team, I don't care what "complements" she pays to us.

Have some respect for the women who put their heart on the line and stand up for them. They got back-handed by the NCAA. We can't change the outcome of the game. We had a great year and it came to an end largely because of circumstances entirely out of our control. I think that sucks and I'm not afraid to say it.

The NCAA can kiss my grits on this deal. Screw job.

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

Cannot agree with this at all, that it looked close or would be called nine out of 10 times.

My opinion is that Young was called for the foul because of the proximity of both players' arms and Young's being almost (but not quite) in contact with the Baylor player.

At real life speed, I think the ref blows that call a lot.

Notice I didn't say that play would be a foul nine times out of ten, but that the ref calls a foul nine times out of ten. It looks like a foul occurs if your assumption is 'there's no way their hands didn't get tied up, and because she was in pursuit, the defender initiated the contact, ergo, foul on #10.'

How often have you seen instant replays of breakaway 3 point plays, with the announcers saying, "you know, I just don't see the foul there...."?

Without knowing all the particulars of officiating in basketball, I can only use a few analogies: in baseball first base umps are taught to watch the bag and listen for the sound of the ball in the glove (at least that used to be the case) because if you watch the ball into the glove and then look down to the bag the baserunner's foot may already be there.

In football, refs are taught to watch D-linemen's names and numbers--if they get distorted, they're being held. Why? Well, what else is an O-lineman going to hold? The O-lineman grabs the D-lineman outside the permitted area and it will twist the D-lineman's jersey. The ref can see that and throws the flag.

Point being, where officials can't see something exactly (either because they can't look two places at once, or because they're not in position to see what's actually going on), they rely on certain cues. In this case, I think (not saying it for certain, but it's what I think happened), the ref saw Young's right arm almost immediately under Morrow's (?) right arm with apparent contact between Young and Morrow that had to be called, split second--and IMO the arms -almost- entwined, the pursuit, and the near contact were enough to make the ref jump to a conclusion that wasn't supported by review.

[Nidaros]

Re: NCAA screw job

Have we discussed this topic enough? Or would there be anything constructive left to say?
I am thankful my home is not on the Red River. I am ready to say the season is over and our women accompolished a great deal on court and no one can take that away. The NCAA is an organization that SDSU chose to belong a long time ago. They make the rules and committees that govern it all. I dont think they are trying to short change us in any manner.

Maybe a long time ago, but I remember being on the fan bus with Dr. Forsyth about 1991 or so, and the bb region was in Grand Forks. UN-Kearney had just move up from NAIA to D2. Dr Forsyth knew the AD from Kearney and they had had a conversation about hosting the regional for D2. I remember Dr Forsyth telling a group of us of how this AD did not understand all the rules of D2 and submitting a sufficent guarentee to become the host etc, so I think any institution that goes through a reclassification also goes through a learning process. I dont think there was any deliberate effort to short change SDSU. Seeds and polls are definitely subjective and possibly that does work against the new guy (SDSU in D1), but the longer we are around, the smarter we will get in dealing with the politics of the NCAA. I am done ringing my hands, it was a great season.

[jacksfan 93]

Re: NCAA screw job

I agree with Nidaros. We got a screw job by the NCAA and their refs. But lets quit beating a dead horse and onto giving the Ladies the praise that they deserve.

[Cowbell]

Re: NCAA screw job

It's official...there have now been more days discussing the refs from the Baylor game than there were days spent by Congress debating the stimulus package. Sorry mods...

[Nidaros]

Re: NCAA screw job

It's official...there have now been more days discussing the refs from the Baylor game than there were days spent by Congress debating the stimulus package. Sorry mods...

Good one, and in 1985 we had a refereering problems then too, hence no national championship. Maybe we just stay home and not try to be involved in playoffs and championships, because the world is against us. Its those biased refs that always do it to us. Why should we bother competing?

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

Good one, and in 1985 we had a refereering problems then too, hence no national championship. Maybe we just stay home and not try to be involved in playoffs and championships, because the world is against us. Its those biased refs that always do it to us. Why should we bother competing?

Totally agree.

[yoteforever]

Re: NCAA screw job

I just got back from Florida where I stayed home one night instead of going out with friends to watch the SDSU women play Baylor. I am sure I will catch the wrath of most on here with the post, but whether the call you are saying was bad or not, there is never a game where one call determines the outcome of the game.

This particular one came late, but there were other questionable calls throughout that game, not favoring one particular team or the other, that had as much of impact on the outcome as the call your fans are debating. Officials aren't perfect, neither are players or coaches. Your team was absolutely nothing less than outstanding in their play in this tournament, and for the whole year for that matter.

You made the dance the first year you were elgible, and could make the claim you should be playing to make the Elite 8. But they got beat. The ladies gave up a large lead, and as much as I would have liked to see them win, they didn't. To chastize the NCAA for where they went, or their selection of refs in my opinion is poor sportsmanship. That's sports period. I have played. I have coached. And I have reffed. And I will tell you that being on the floor (or field) is a whole lot different than being in the arena, or in your living room watching the game on big screen.

Your ladies team was outstanding. Truly outstanding. And although I am a Coyote fan, I was impressed with how well they did. I would love our program to be as successful as yours was. My reccomendation is to quit the complaining and griping as it doesn't bode well for you as a fan base, and celebrate what was truly a "storybook" season.

The coaches that I admire the most are the ones that teach their kids how to win and lose. Your coach does that very well. I admire coaches that tell their team to "act like you are used to it, and have done it before" even though maybe they haven't. This is new water for SDSU, and to have the NCAA look at you with favor I think is a bit naive.

Celebrate this team, and forever hold them in your thoughts as time passes, and you all talk about the '08/'09 ladies basketball team, and what a great ride it was. Be proud...........not bitter.

Ok, blast away at me. But trust me, this sin't a USD/SDSU thing. It is simply my observation of some behavior from great fans I didn't expect.

[JackJD]

Re: NCAA screw job

I will make just a couple comments on yotemeal's post:

I would love our program to be as successful as yours was.

Is.

Ok, blast away at me.

Nothing to blast on, yotemeal. I agree with you that we had a great season. I predict we'll be back next year, likely matching or improving on this year's fabulous results. I'm watching the NCAA women's tourney games right now and, having watched the Jackrabbit women in person about 10 times this year, I know that we match well with the schools making the Elite 8. We will next year, too.

[yoteforever]

Re: NCAA screw job

I will make just a couple comments on yotemeal's post:



Is.



Nothing to blast on, yotemeal. I agree with you that we had a great season. I predict we'll be back next year, likely matching or improving on this year's fabulous results. I'm watching the NCAA women's tourney games right now and, having watched the Jackrabbit women in person about 10 times this year, I know that we match well with the schools making the Elite 8. We will next year, too.

Since we are into technicalities, I am yoteforever, not yotemeal.

Secondly, when you make the statement that it is an obvious fact USD fans hate to be criticized, or however you put it, I would caution you about (2) things. #1, be careful not to lump all fans into the same category. That was a negative comment regarding USD, and I feel uncalled for. Many USD fans were at the arena cheering on SDSU, myself one of them. #2, you have a number of fans on here who don't take criticism well either. I have made it known I am a USD fan first, but I like to think I was classy in my debates or arguments (most times) and it rubs me wrong when someone says all USD fans are this or that. You are wrong on that.

Lastly, your comment about IS instead of WAS is appropriate. I expect your program to have continued success.

My whole point in my post was to say I have come to get to know many of you on here through debate or oration, and you are far to classy a group to lower yourself into saying the NCAA screwed you, or the refs screwed you. That's all.

[launcher46]

Re: NCAA screw job

Nice post yoteforever. I got so sick of the complaining about the refs and ncaa that I couldn't look through this thread anymore. We didn't get beat because of the refs, we got beat because we slowed down the pace and blew a 14 point lead. The refs had a much bigger impact on the game than they should have (for both teams!) but if Jill Young makes the three the games over, if Johnston doesn't ice his own player with 30 seconds left it probably ends up differently, if the Baylor girl doesn't make a great play at the end we head to overtime. Too much goes into the game to say we lost because we were playing Baylor in Texas with bad refs.