Cal State Fullerton

[SD-STATE]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I thinking Holdren may be eligible still for a medical redshirt assuming he is lost for the season. Its too soon to tell, I guess we have wait for offical injury status.

I'm not sure on the rules, but I don't think D1 gives out medicals as easily as d2 does. Being how they have already played a few games. I don't see him getting a medical if he's out for the season. Hopefully he'll be fine.

[bub94]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Time for me to chirp in with my comments. Robinson's dunk was quick and explosive. He threw it down with authority. If he would have caught the lob to him earlier, he was way the f#$@ up there. Free throw shooting was so much better. It almost seemed like 2 different teams playing the first and second half. Seemed like we wanted to shoot all threes at the end of the game and not work the ball around. I've seen a lot of injuries but most don't have the vocal screams Steve had. I hope it isn't bad but it was nice to see him sitting/standing with his team for most of the second half. Cadwell had a great game. The guards for Fullerton were soooooo quick. The team stayed out of foul trouble for the first half and they didn't have the massive turnovers this game. I'll stop rambling now.

[89rabbit]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I'm not sure on the rules, but I don't think D1 gives out medicals as easily as d2 does. Being how they have already played a few games. I don't see him getting a medical if he's out for the season. Hopefully he'll be fine.

None of us knows what Steve Holdren's condition is, as Coach Nagy said we will know more tomorrow after Steve see a Doctor.  I ask that we all stop gossiping on something we know nothing about.

Given that as a pretext it seems premature to be discussing whether or not he would be eligible for a “Medical Red Shirt”.  However, since the topic has been broached let us at least deal in facts.  

http://sacredheartpioneers.collegesp...p-waivers.html

Eligibility and Illness, Injury or Other Incapacity

As described below, a student-athlete's illness, injury or other incapacity can, in certain circumstances, affect his or her eligibility under NCAA regulations. However, an injury, illness, or incapacity does not affect their athletic scholarship, team membership, or academic enrollment; and, student-athletes are not retaliated against if they are injured, ill, or otherwise incapacitated.  .  .  .

Under NCAA regulations, a student-athlete is not permitted to engage in more than four seasons of intercollegiate competition in any one sport. A student-athlete must complete his/her seasons of participation within five calendar years from the beginning of the term in which the student-athlete first registered for a minimum full-time program of studies in a collegiate institution. NCAA regulations provide that female student-athletes who become pregnant during their collegiate career may be granted six calendar years in which to engage in four seasons of intercollegiate competition. Any competition, regardless of time, during a season in an intercollegiate sport counts as a season of competition in that sport.

It is the right of every student to maintain the confidentiality of their protected medical information, which includes information regarding student-athlete injuries and illnesses.   .  .  .

"Red Shirting"

Q. The term "red shirt" is not used in the NCAA compliance manual. Where did this term originate and why is it used?

A. The term "red shirt" actually originated on the football field. In the past, at the beginning of each season, coaches would decide which student-athletes would be permitted to compete during the season, using a year of eligibility, and which ones would only be permitted to practice. The ones who did not compete during the season preserved a year of eligibility. These student-athletes wore red jerseys at practice so the coaches could easily identify which student-athletes were not going to compete that year.

Student-athletes who have become incapacitated during a season of athletic competition in which they have competed have the option of pursuing an NCAA Hardship Waiver in order to preserve that season of eligibility. When a Hardship Waiver is granted, the student-athlete is given an additional year of competition eligibility. Receiving a Hardship Waiver is commonly known as a "medical red-shirt year", or "red shirting". However, a "red-shirt" season can also refer to a season where the student-athlete does not compete in any intercollegiate competition because of incapacity occurring outside of a season of competition, or does not compete for reasons unrelated to incapacity.  .  .  .

Part I

[89rabbit]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Part II

In Season Incapacity:
Hardship Waivers

Q. What is the definition of a hardship waiver? What are the conditions that must occur in order to request a hardship waiver?

A. "Hardship" is defined by NCAA regulations as "an incapacity resulting from an injury or illness," provided that certain criteria set forth by NCAA regulations are met. Such incapacity may include a female athlete's pregnancy. A student-athlete will not be charged with the loss of that season of competition eligibility by the conference or the Academics / Eligibility / Compliance Cabinet if all the following criteria are met:
1. The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any two-year or four-year collegiate institution or occurs subsequent to the first day of classes in the student-athlete's senior year of high school;
2. The injury or illness occurs prior to the completion of the first half of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship in that sport and results in incapacity to compete for the remainder of that playing season; and
3. The injury/illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than two contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport), or 20% (whichever number is greater) of the institution's scheduled contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only scheduled competition (excluding exhibition contests and scrimmages) against outside participants during the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season in that sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), is countable in calculating the number of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. . . .

So as you can see if Steve's condition is serious enough he would be eligible. However, we don't have any idea what his condition is and I ask that we respect Steve and let him tell us through proper channels if he so chooses. Remember Steve is more then a Jackrabbit, he is also a person. Hopeful Steve condition is minor and he is back on the court shortly and all this is nothing more then a quick lesson about the NCAA and Hardship Waivers.

Go State! ;D

[SoDak]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Dellas has been in the buisness a long time and really does do a good job.

I had the opportunity to work with Dellas in radio for many years and he is a consummate professional. Disappointing game though, nonetheless.

[89rabbit]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

From the Fullerton site:

http://fullertontitans.collegesports...112905aaa.html

Titans Improve to 3-0 with Road Win in South Dakota

Alternate Officials, Icy Conditions Don't Slow Fullerton


Nov. 28, 2005

Brookings, SD - Jamaal Brown scored 15 points and grabbed 9 rebounds and Bobby Brown had 17 points and 5 assists Monday night as Cal State Fullerton remained unbeaten with an 82-70 win at South Dakota State. The Titans haven't been 3-0 since 1989-90 when Coach John Sneed's team with senior Cedric Ceballos opened up 5-0.  .  .  .

The game was delayed 30 minutes so that three local officials could be utilized when the scheduled crew was stranded due to icy road conditions to the south.  .  .  .

South Dakota State rallied behind Cadwell in the second half despite losing leading scorer Steve Holdren to a knee injury late in the first half. Holdren was averaging 16.5 points and had 6 when he went down after making a driving layup.  

The Jackrabbits cut a 58-36 deficit to 61-44 and then used a 10-0 run midway through the half to pull within 61-54 with 10:23 to play. They never got closer but Fullerton couldn't relax until Jamaal Brown tore a rebound away from an SDSU defender and made a layup for a 77-64 lead with 2:24 remaining.

"I thought South Dakota State made a great effort," said Fullerton Coach Bob Burton. "If Holdren doesn't get hurt, they probably win the game. But this is a difficult place to play beyond the obvious factors tonight so we're very happy with a win on the road."  .  .  .

Fullerton will host South Dakota State in the regular season finale on March 5. Wednesday night the Titans are scheduled to play at Kansas State but weather conditions may prevent them from leaving Brookings as scheduled on Tuesday morning.


Go State!  ;D

[JackTwice]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I can end the medical discussion pretty quickly. When we made the leap from DII there were several football players that lost a year of eligibility due to the difference in rules from DII to DI. If you look back Andy Kardoes and Taylor Murray both had their classes change by two years from one year to the next. As a matter of fact I think there was a whole discussion on the football thread about this at that time.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

JackTwice:

You might be right on that point. I think its about finishing your years of eligibilty within a certain time frame. (12 to 15 semesters). D2 probably has more options in that sense.

I think in the last years of D2 , SDSU had a pile-up in depth due to medical red shirts only to find out last year that the cupboard was nearly empty in terms of experience.

I think our program needs to develope with new talent and good recruiting each year and not depend on medical red shirts to build depth. So if no redshirt is available, that may be okay too.


I am hoping Steve only had a bad sprain as Jackmd alluded to as the best case scenario and that he will be out only a couple of weeks.

I thought it was very interesting how the other Jack team members rallied without Steve. That is not say Steve is not a valuable member of the team, but maybe his absence helps the others to pick up the slack.

I am really happy that our guys came back and rallied in the second half. Its not a win, but it shows character and the ability to regroup. Its kind like a day at the office.

[89rabbit]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I can end the medical discussion pretty quickly.  When we made the leap from DII there were several football players that lost a year of eligibility due to the difference in rules from DII to DI.  If you look back Andy Kardoes and Taylor Murray both had their classes change by two years from one year to the next.  As a matter of fact I think there was a whole discussion on the football thread about this at that time.  

While it is true that there are differences between D-II eligibility and D-I eligibility, namely that at the D-II level you have 5 years to complete your eligibility (they however do not have to be consecutive) and at the D-I level you have 5 years total to complete your eligibility, I am not sure how this pertains to the topic of Hardship Waivers as it relates to our current discussion.

Go State!  ;D

[hoops_guy]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Medical or Hardship redshirts are still attainable as long as he played in 20% or less of the games during a season. If he has played in 5, then as long as there are 25 or more games played in the season, which there are, he will be eligible for a medical redshirt. Without a medical redshirt, you are allowed 10 semesters (5-years) to complete your eligibility. At DI those semesters must be concecutive and at DII they do not have to be consecutive.

[89rabbit]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Thanks for the info Hoops_Guy, I corrected my last post to reflect the 5 years.

Go State!  ;D

[silkamilkamonico]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Unfortunate what happened to Steve Holdren in this game for you guys.

Just curious to know if you guys feel it would be in his, and the programs best interest to seek a medical hardship for him?

You get him for another year, and he gets to focus on rehab, depedning on the severity of the injury.....

See Yuz.

[bub94]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I'm just gonna say I hope he isn't done for the year. This is a good bunch of guys and I think they would miss him on the floor. You can see how close this team got over the summer during midnight maddess. A team this young can't lose a player with the experience Steve has from last year. I'm going at it as if Steve isn't out for the year and will be back on the court.

[filbert]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

I just got back to KC from being snowed/iced in without power for two days at my sister's place northwest of Huron. I was going to go to the game but turned back after a miserable half-hour or so driving through Beadle County, and listened to most of the game (on and off while helping deal with the ice storm in the country).

Fullerton comments:

They're good. Really good. Maybe not quite Illinois or Kentucky good, but a loss to them, even at home, is not a "bad" loss for this team.

The second half showed some heart and spirit from the Jackrabbits (and the fans). All is not lost, there is hope.


I think Nagy and the coaching staff may need to simplify the game for these young Rabbits. Emphasize defense and eliminating turnovers, and take whatever scoring you get from this team for a while, would be my suggestion. I'm sure Coach Nagy appreciates the help. ;D

You can't give up 49 points in the first half. You just can't. You need to do something to stop the other team. Anything. Punch 'em in the doodah. Something.

Holdren's injury may have a silver lining named Matt Cadwell. Andre Gilbert seems to be taking a while to figure out where he fits into the college game, but then he's only played five games at this level. Berte won't be a star but needs to deliver solid minutes. What we really need is a point guard who can get the ball to Cadwell and Beran (and hopefully Gilbert when he gets it together). Let those three shoot, and tell Berte to go get the rebound.

Eventually, our Jackrabbits will put together two good halves in the same game. When we do, we'll beat some folks. It'll happen.

Our "job" as Jackrabbit boosters/fans is to keep the home fires burning. Don't panic, don't despair.

NCAA men's basketball isn't like I-AA football, or even women's basketball, or, frankly, any other college sport except maybe I-A football. There's too much money at stake.

Division I men's basketball is a dog-eat-dog, only-the-strong-survive, vicious, nasty, brutish war compared to I-AA football or the D-I women's game. Everyone wants to make the NCAA tournament, and that's really all that matters.

Nobody's gonna cry any tears at poor SDSU trying to make a go of it at the D-I level. It's incredibly tough to build a successful major college basketball program. For every Gonzaga there are a hundred Savannah States and Maryland-Eastern Shores. For every Northern Iowa there are ten Prairie View A&M's.

If we want respect, we need to earn it. Nobody's going to give it to us, no matter how many flashy scoreboards we have in our arena or how many D-II tournament appearances we've made. Men's basketball will be by far the hardest sport to be successful in--and the most rewarding when we turn that corner and start having success.

We will get there. We are STATE.

Go Rabbits!

[bub94]

Re: Cal State Fullerton

Watching Matt shoot last year in warm-ups, you can see he has a nice outside shot. I was talking to one of the courtside season ticket holders about Andre just needing one little kick to get his game going. The were signs in the second half he was getting into the game a little more. I'm not just talking about scoring, but he was rebounding and there was a lot of hustle for loose balls. We might need to teach a little patience for the post players when at the top of the key. Still a fun team to watch.