What's wrong with the men's team?

[SDSUFAN]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

I think we need to let people speak their minds and try not to drive them away. I have heard from a few people in town that they're not comfortable contributing to this board because they've seen people get run off or shut down by the long-time contributors. More than once, I have had people roll their eyes when I mention something I read about here. I try to remember that when somebody new comes along.

I would hope that we wouldn't start being suspicious of every new poster. If I don't agree with somebody, I confront what they say with my own take on things. That's fair. But if we're going to discount what people say based on the number of posts they have made or based on the date they registered, this becomes a pretty small conversation group.

Thanks I think I got better things to do. Anyone else care to pile on?

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Thanks I think I got better things to do. Anyone else care to pile on?

If I had more posts I would

[89rabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

SDSUFAN, like I said, "I don’t post often because everyone here seems to cover topics well.  I did want to post something because I think it would contribute to the question asked by filbert."  As for patience, up until now I have kept my mouth shut.

Even though I don't post regularly, I do read the board almost every day.  

As for "next year we will have better players," we have had 3 years to recruit DI talent.  How many players have left in the last 3 years who were supposed to be DI talent?  Andy Moeller, Matt Jones, Joe Green, and Jake Wenig.  Everyone of these guys was a legit player who could have helped the last couple of years, but I am sure I will hear a bunch of excuses about why they left.  Bottom line-some of our best players the last 3 years are no longer with the team.  Maybe they got tired of getting yelled at.  Most mid-major programs count on keeping their kids for at least 4 if not 5 years.  

On another note, has anyone else noticed that it seems we are trying to use media timeouts in place of substitutions?  In the final stretch of games, players are on the floor for 6-10 minutes without a break.  This in turn leads to key turnovers and missed defensive assignments.  It seems like we ran out of gas against Kentucky, SEMO, and Fullerton.  

Andy Moeller - Great D-II player with D-I talent. Transferred to Minnesota State because he wanted one more chance at a D-II National Championship.

Matt Jones - Illness unable to continue his basketball carreer

Joe Green - D-I talent, but very inconsistent. Had off the court issues as well (I don't believe he is currently playing NCAA basketball anywhere else, but I could be wrong).

Jake Wenig - Good shooter (although streaky) but was suspect on the defensive side of things. I am not sure you can place him talent wise with the others. I am also, not sure he had the speed to play the D-I game. Foot injury lead to Jake being red shirted his 2nd season with the program left the University after the 1st semester of his second year (I don't believe he is currently playing NCAA basketball anywhere else, but I could be wrong).


Go State! ;D

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Thanks I think I got better things to do. Anyone else care to pile on?

I purposely didn't quote your original post in my response because I think many of us (myself included) have done exactly the same kind of thing and have made some of our new members feel less than welcome at times.

We should all keep in mind the fact that computer-mediated communication is difficult and the message we intend to send isn't always decoded and received the way we intended it to be. (Now that is a sentence only an academic could love.)

[89rabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

*From the Moderator

It is ok to be negative and express ones feelings about the program on this site. However, be prepared to have those assertions challenged by those who do not share your point of view. I don't think anyone should question someone’s loyalties based solely on the fact that they are new and have issue with the way things are going.

We have had people in the past register on this board under names designed to mislead the community. New posters who are critical of the program probably suffer because of the misdeeds of others from the past. Is this suspicion fair, probably not? Is it understandable probably so? However, we should all try to give any new poster the benefit of the doubt.

Two quotes come to mind when dealing with new posters whose opinions we might differ with.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
-- Hanlon's Razor.

"Trust, but verify."
-- Ronald Reagan -- President of the United States

Remember it is ok to not be a fan of SDSU and post negative things about the program on this board. It is not ok to pretend to be a fan of SDSU and post things in an effort to mislead the other members of the board. Bottom line is, be honest in your postings and there is no problem.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

I am too angry to reply any more on this board.

You guys all have your fun. ;D ;D

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Sorry, did not mean to make people so mad. I just wanted to air some of my frustrations.

[89rabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

*From the Moderator

I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone about Trolls (in this case folks who have registered and posted as SDSU fans,  when in fact they are not).

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm#WIAT


.  .  .  .Why Does it Matter?

Some people — particularly those who have been online for years — are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.  .  .  .  

I do not offer this as an excuse, merely as an explantion.  Again, we as a community must fight the impulse to think that anyone that does not agree with us, must be a troll.

Conversely, those who express unpopular views should expect their views to be met with an impassioned  rebuttal and should not be a shrinking violet.  They have a duty to have the conviction of their beliefs and to not be frightened away at the first sign of feedback that conflicts with their own view.

Just as a newcomer should not be silenced simply because they are new, an old timer is under no special duty to mute their own opinions simple based on the fact of their long standing with the board.  

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

If we fans are this frustrated, imagine how the coaches and players feel. I had a long post all ready with my frustrations by what I saw on Saturday while being embarassed for the first time in my life to have a SDSU shirt on. Our team was an embarrassment on Saturday. There's no way to sugar coat it. I was getting looks from Marquette fans that was more pity than anything else. No one even gave me a hard time. What was the point? They didn't need to pile on.

Our mens team needs to find a way to right the ship. Sooner would be better than later, but there is no guarantee that can happen. We're used to winning and want to return to that form. Unfortunately, we're not there, yet. I guarantee the coaches and players are not giving up on the season and are even more frustrated than we are. See, we have our own jobs and lives to take away from our time to dwell on SDSU athletics. The coaches and players don't. They spend all day working on getting the team better.

We just argue with each other on this site as to who can say what and who's challenging whom in their posts. For those of us who have an opportunity to watch most of the games in person, save that energy for the games. Pump up the team tomorrow night and give UWM all they can handle.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Sorry, did not mean to make people so mad.  I just wanted to air some of my frustrations.

Don't lose sleep over it! Some people can dish it out but can't take it when it comes back to them. I think its sad when the moderator included assumes any criticism from a new poster is an imposter looking to tear down SDSU. I agree we have had our fair share of those drive by posters, but let people be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I think we are missing out on great discussion and dialogue from registered posters and guests who choose not to post for fear they will get taken to the woodshed for saying something negative about the program. I don't think you have to totaly consume the Jack's coolaide in order to participate. I remember when we first started this board there was a lot of discussion around whether we should go DI or not. I did not agree with the people who were advocating staying DII, but certainly would not want to silence them because we were on opposite sides of the debate. I'm certainly not trying to pile on SDSUfan as obviously he has a passion for SDSU like most of us on this board or we wouldn't invest the time we do, however we need to be careful about not conveying the message that you can't voice your opinion positive or negative if you don't contribute a certain amount of dollars or have been on this board for a certain period of time. I love to see new posters with different perspectives because heck most people know by now where I stand on most issues.  

[West_River_Jack]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

We all want instant gratification. That is human nature. There is a reason that the transition from D2 to D1 is more than a few weeks. We lost some players who started college basketball with the intent of playing D2. We lost some players for other reasons. That is all part of the transition process.

We have to wait for the team to grow. Right now they are young and, in comparison to the opponents, small. Size does matter at all levels of basketball. I remember when my son started playing 4th grade basketball. There was fear of the "big" man and the team that was lucky enough to have him. The same is true in all other levels as the players mature through different levels of the game. The Minnesota Timberwolves could be almost unstoppable if they had a true post player who could dominate the inside . . . Garnett is a forward!

With a dominant big man on offense the entire defense has to collapse in to help out and this allows the outside offensive game to move a step or two closer to the basket. A dominant big man in the middle of the defense allows the rest of the defense to force the opponents outside game a step or two farther from the basket. We don't have that player this year. We have two fine 6'10" players working their butts off to be able to be that player at the D1 level over the next four years. We have to be patient and allow that to happen. We are in transition. We have to let the transition happen. It won't happen in 1 or even 2 seasons.

[89rabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Hey JackguyII,

In this thread I feel that you have called me an extremist. Perhaps there is some truth to that statement as I am VERY passionate about SDSU. However, I must protest your assetrtion that I assume that SF_Rabbit_Fan is an imposter in either my personal posts or my posts when performing my duties as this boards Moderator.

I disagree with SF_Rabbit_Fan's take and have expressed my differences, but not once did I state that I thought the he was anything other then what he claims to be and that is a Rabbit fan. In my role as Moderator I expressly called upon everyone to give new posters the benifit of the doubt and to take them at their word.

Perhaps you feel my words are hollow, perhaps you feel that you know my heart better then I, but let me tell you that you don't. I trust but verifiy and I do not have enough postings from SF_Rabbit_Fan to suggest anything. I take him at his word even if I don't agree with his message.

Please re-read my posts from this thread. You may find that you may want to rethink your accusation. >

Go State! ;D

[89rabbit]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

89rabbit:

My only response is that Coach Scott Nagy is the best coach SDSU has ever had and I have total faith in him.

Go State!  ;D

Andy Moeller - Great D-II player with D-I talent.  Transferred to Minnesota State because he wanted one more chance at a D-II National Championship.

Matt Jones - Illness unable to continue his basketball carreer

Joe Green - D-I talent, but very inconsistent.  Had off the court issues as well (I don't believe he is currently playing NCAA basketball anywhere else, but I could be wrong).

Jake Wenig - Good shooter (although streaky) but was suspect on the defensive side of things.  I am not sure you can place him talent wise with the others.  I am also, not sure he had the speed to play the D-I game.  Foot injury lead to Jake being red shirted his 2nd season with the program left the University after the 1st semester of his second year (I don't believe he is currently playing NCAA basketball anywhere else, but I could be wrong).


Go State!   ;D

Performing the role of Moderator:

*From the Moderator

It is ok to be negative and express ones feelings about the program on this site.  However, be prepared to have those assertions challenged by those who do not share your point of view.  I don't think anyone should question someone’s loyalties based solely on the fact that they are new and have issue with the way things are going.

We have had people in the past register on this board under names designed to mislead the community.  New posters who are critical of the program probably suffer because of the misdeeds of others from the past.  Is this suspicion fair, probably not?  Is it understandable probably so?  However, we should all try to give any new poster the benefit of the doubt.  

Two quotes come to mind when dealing with new posters whose opinions we might differ with.  

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
-- Hanlon's Razor.

"Trust, but verify."
-- Ronald Reagan -- President of the United States

Remember it is ok to not be a fan of SDSU and post negative things about the program on this board.  It is not ok to pretend to be a fan of SDSU and post things in an effort to mislead the other members of the board.  Bottom line is, be honest in your postings and there is no problem.  

*From the Moderator

I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone about Trolls (in this case folks who have registered and posted as SDSU fans,  when in fact they are not).

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm#WIAT


.  .  .  .Why Does it Matter?

Some people — particularly those who have been online for years — are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.  .  .  .  

I do not offer this as an excuse, merely as an explantion.  Again, we as a community must fight the impulse to think that anyone that does not agree with us, must be a troll.

Conversely, those who express unpopular views should expect their views to be met with an impassioned  rebuttal and should not be a shrinking violet.  They have a duty to have the conviction of their beliefs and to not be frightened away at the first sign of feedback that conflicts with their own view.

Just as a newcomer should not be silenced simply because they are new, an old timer is under no special duty to mute their own opinions simple based on the fact of their long standing with the board.  

Go State!  ;D

[JACKGUYII]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

Hey JackguyII,

In this thread I feel that you have called me an extremist.  Perhaps there is some truth to that statement as I am VERY passionate about SDSU. However, I must protest your assetrtion that I assume that SF_Rabbit_Fan is an imposter in either my personal posts or my posts when performing my duties as this boards Moderator.  

I disagree with SF_Rabbit_Fan's take and have expressed my differences, but not once did I state that I thought the he was anything other then what he claims to be and that is a Rabbit fan.  In my role as Moderator I expressly called upon everyone to give new posters the benifit of the doubt and to take them at their word.

Perhaps you feel my words are hollow, perhaps you feel that you know my heart better then I, but let me tell you that you don't.  I trust but verifiy and I do not have enough postings from SF_Rabbit_Fan to suggest anything.  I take him at his word even if I don't agree with his message.

Please re-read my posts from this thread.  You may find that you may want to rethink your accusation.  >

Go State!  ;D

I did not specifically call anyone an extremist, but a few thought I was talking directly to them so if the shoe fits where it! I guess we could all be called extremists to varying degrees for our passion to SDSU. The issue I have is when we do get new posters or old posters who raise some legitimate issues (sometimes critical) lets hear them out. Someone felt compelled to start a topic about "What's wrong with the mens team" then lets discuss what we think is wrong! If people don't think anything is wrong and this is the natural evolution of a new DI program so be it. I just have issues with people who pounce on those who do want to voice their opinion.

[NorCalJack]

Re: What's wrong with the men's team?

I would give SF_Rabbit_Fan a break.  He registered on September 19, 2005.  He has been waiting a long time to post.  This is not a characteristic of a troll.  A troll registers and posts almost immediately.  

Like wise, I would be paitient with the men's BB team.  They are young (no seniors), two of the juniors are still in their first year in the program.  We lost our best player to injury.  The bench is full of Freshmen, no depth.  I think the team will be better at the end of this year than they were at the end of last year.  The record this year may be worst than last year, but since we are playing a much tougher schedule they will still be better by the end of the year.

Last year I saw UC Davis play in a holiday tourney and they looked horrible.  Last night they beat Stanford, so things can turn around.  We just need to be patient.  Everyone knew that the transition from D2 to D1 was going to be very difficult.

Men's basketball has to be the most difficult sport to move up from D2.  In football, we moved from D2 to D1-AA.  There is no D1-AA in basketball.  Imagine our football team playing Big 12 and Big 10 teams.  We would get slaughtered.  This would also happen in Men's BB, but we can be competitive after the transition period is over and we have a full compliment of D1 talent that includes Seniors, not Redshirt Freshmen.

When SDSU announced the move up to D1, everyone acknowledged the difficult times that were ahead.  Everyone agreed to have great resolve during this time.  Now we are experiencing these trials and tribulations.  We must be steadfast and be patient.  We must heed the course and stick to the game plan.  Good things will eventually happen, just not immediately.  We are still in good hands with Nagy as our coach.  I have faith in him.

P.S. - Welcome aboard SF_Rabbit_Fan