The Frost Arena game environment

[zooropa]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I wish we would do this. Move the band to the other end, reserve about 2 rows behind the visitors bench.

I kind of agree with that, but I mostly see that as being 'low rent' behavior on the part of Oakland.

Gee. You stuck a tuba in the coach's ear. Wow. Way to be creative.

I feel kind of the same way about band cheers/taunts.

I'm a bit jealous of schools that have organized band taunts (e.g. 'airball', etc.)

But at the same time, it's neither classy nor spontaneous.

I'd like to see Frost become even more intimidating (it is already -extremely- intimidating for women's teams) without resorting to school sponsored short-cuts.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I kind of agree with that, but I mostly see that as being 'low rent' behavior on the part of Oakland.

Gee. You stuck a tuba in the coach's ear. Wow. Way to be creative.

I feel kind of the same way about band cheers/taunts.

I'm a bit jealous of schools that have organized band taunts (e.g. 'airball', etc.)

But at the same time, it's neither classy nor spontaneous.

I'd like to see Frost become even more intimidating (it is already -extremely- intimidating for women's teams) without resorting to school sponsored short-cuts.

While a big part of me agrees with your sentiments, another big part says the administration needs to give our teams the best chance to win. If that means sticking a Tuba in the other coaches ear, as long as its within the rules, I don't see the problem. This is DI basketball, not The Masters.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

Pretty sure part of the reason the don't extend to the floor has to do with regulations regarding distance of seats from the end of the court so I don't think that is an option.

Yep, the last bleacher has to be a certain distance back from the support for the basket. When they used the hanging baskets, this wasn't an issue. Not using those anymore because of sight lines and other issues.

[zooropa]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

While a big part of me agrees with your sentiments, another big part says the administration needs to give our teams the best chance to win. If that means sticking a Tuba in the other coaches ear, as long as its within the rules, I don't see the problem. This is DI basketball, not The Masters.

I can see that, but you could stretch that argument to include recruiting questionable athletes...

Every athletic department needs to determine where to draw the line between self-imposed 'good conduct' and the maximum that the NCAA permits.

I prefer things as they are, doesn't mean it's perfect, but I do prefer the status quo. It's kind of like Nagy & AJ wearing ties and dress shoes: it's not required, but they look better than "Got a dime?" Kampe.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

For a fact (i've done the resurch)this ruling is imposed by the athletic dept. they (the athletic dept.) took our fun away for the WNIT and never gave it back!!!! you now rarely see me at frost because of this.

I don't know what kind of resurch (sp) you did slosho, but it wasn't accurate as Filbert correctly pointed out. When we joined the Summit (Mid-Continent at that point), the league indicated they had a no noisemaker rule. I've rung a lot of cowbells in my day (as some of you know) and I hate the rule...but it is there. Fred Oien hated it too, and said on numerous occasions that he didn't understand it since noisemakers just add to the excitement. I've reluctantly put my cherished cowbell on my downstairs dresser...darn it!!

[slosho]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I don't know what kind of resurch (sp) you did slosho, but it wasn't accurate as Filbert correctly pointed out. When we joined the Summit (Mid-Continent at that point), the league indicated they had a no noisemaker rule. I've rung a lot of cowbells in my day (as some of you know) and I hate the rule...but it is there. Fred Oien hated it too, and said on numerous occasions that he didn't understand it since noisemakers just add to the excitement. I've reluctantly put my cherished cowbell on my downstairs dresser...darn it!!

When I researched this I looked only at the NCAA rules. That is for sure.
At that time the only post season we were a part of was the WNIT

As far as the Summit's rules I know they must exist but I have never been able to find them on their website. (you would think this organization would have these readily available, or a Goggle search would find them)

As far as what Dr. Oien told you, He told me something entirely different.
I suspect that as you were an alumnus at that time you got a different answer than I, (MORE PC... it is far easier to play the good guy) in fact I challenged him to produce in print these rules for me to see.. that never happened.

Here is the SDSU Collegian article that was printed at that time. The Athletic department made these claims, but they were unsubstantiated.

Here are a portion of the NCAA rules as they read today:

Art. 9 Team followers, as in Rule 4-27, commit an unsportsmanlike act,
including, but not limited to, the following:
a. Using musical instruments, amplified music or artificial noisemakers
while the game is in progress, except timeouts and intermission.

This rule was no different then then it is today. There are no "Tournament rules" (or rather none that I have found publicly available)
When I e-mailed the WNIT officials about the rules their response was simply "the standard NCAA rules are followed".

I HAVE perused this Ad nauseam, as I still believe having fun things besides just the game (cowbells, chant's, Jumping, Ect.) is integral to the "game-day envroment"

I also believe cowbells should return to frost! (see NCAA rule above as to why it's permissible)

Feel free to post a link to any contradictory printed policy that states we cannot have cowbells in a basketball arena. (Outside of the SDSU policy)

I know we were told at that time that the league indicated they had this policy against noisemakers. (we also were not in the Mid-Con at this time and the Athletic Dept. was very much trying to court them (sell-out fans and traditions if necessary))

This policy has yet to meet my eyes. when it does, I'll be glad to finally be done with my crusade and relegate to someone who reminisces about "the old days".
I simply will not believe it until I see it.

Thanks Jacks#1Fan for taking the time to read and comment on my post, I appreciate that. (BTW I Loved, and still love Keith Jensen as an awesome fan )

To the gentleman who questioned my fan-hood:

If you and your friends don't come to Frost anymore because they took your toy away than you were never much of a fan anyway.

I'm sure glad you are the person who get's to make decisions on who should come to frost, and why.
If it wasn't for people like that we could all have enjoyable experiences for our own reasons. I'm also glad you get to choose for me, about my choice of taking a stand against bull-____ policies. I still come to frost when I can (I now live 3 hours away) but it's simply less fun (arguably for most everyone...).

I'm older now (I was a student then) and would likely not be doing this in the same manor. But it's theses kind's of fan's that make me buy season tickets and then stand with the students at football games... because they (the student's) cheer and are not fun haters.

Sorry for the mis-spelling earlier, I was kinda in a rush when making the original post

GO Jacks!!
Bring back the COWBELL!!

[slosho]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I'll admit..
I only searched the rules.. not "handbooks".

From the "2009-10 Division I General Requirements Handbook":

Artificial Noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers, air horns and electronic amplifiers
shall not be permitted, and such instruments shall be removed from the playing and
spectator areas. Bands, or any component thereof, shall not play while the game is in
progress. The tournament manager shall be responsible for enforcing these provisions.

The cowbells would be OK for the regular season however (well according to the NCAA that is).

Man I miss the good old days....

[SoDakJack]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I loved the cowbells. That being said, I always liked them more at football games than the basketball games. Ever since I was 4 or 5 and coming to Jackrabbit games in the 80s I have thought the bells were better suited for football though.

That being said, I think that alot of fans got lazy when it came to cowbells. It made a couple generation of fans that never had to yell to make an impression. If you need a cowbell to be an effective fan, you need to take lessons from either a current front rower in the student section or you can pm me, and, as a front row alumni I can give you some lessons.

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

I loved the cowbells. That being said, I always liked them more at football games than the basketball games. Ever since I was 4 or 5 and coming to Jackrabbit games in the 80s I have thought the bells were better suited for football though.

That being said, I think that alot of fans got lazy when it came to cowbells. It made a couple generation of fans that never had to yell to make an impression. If you need a cowbell to be an effective fan, you need to take lessons from either a current front rower in the student section or you can pm me, and, as a front row alumni I can give you some lessons.

Come visit us in the front row any time you want!

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

After seeing the Oral Roberts crowd, I don't think we have anything to worry about. For a school that is definently a basketball school like ORU, that was sure a pathetic crowd for a Saturday doubleheader. I think we are ok, Frost gets loud when it needs to be, but we difinently have room to grow, but for the Summit league, I think we have to be one of the best if not the best crowds in the conference.

They didn't do a doubleheader. By splitting the women's game to the afternoon and waiting for the evening for the men's game they really hurt their attendance especially with the bad weather for those folks. Making one trip in bad weather is bad, but they had their fans making two.

[SoDakJack]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

Come visit us in the front row any time you want!

That would be a blast, although I am pretty sure the other half wouldn't have nearly the fun!

Along those lines, I think that it would be fun once and awhile if some of the folks that sit across from students would wander over to that section and partake in the fun. The student section is one of my favorite memories of my years at SDSU. There are many more memories, but I am afraid that some of the statue of limitations haven't expired yet.

[JackJD]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

After seeing the Oral Roberts crowd, I don't think we have anything to worry about. For a school that is definently a basketball school like ORU, that was sure a pathetic crowd for a Saturday doubleheader. I think we are ok, Frost gets loud when it needs to be, but we difinently have room to grow, but for the Summit league, I think we have to be one of the best if not the best crowds in the conference.

I'm too lazy to check the ORU average attendance but one has to take into account the nasty weather as impacting Saturday's crowd.

On the topic of cowbells...I do not recall a lot of cowbells in use during my years at SDSU (Fall of 72 through Spring 76). My freshman year was the transition year -- Barn to Frost --. I recall a few cowbells at football games but if my recollection is accurate, there were very few at basketball games. I didn't own a cowbell until a few years ago (when still permitted) just prior an NDSU game. Got a heckuva blister shaking the darned thing and the Jackrabbits won!

[zooropa]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

Frost is good, will get better.

I think the athletic department's approach to season ticket sales is very forward thinking.

ORU, NDSU, Oakland, et al. can't have basketball doubleheaders because they sell separate men's and women's season tickets. Therefore, a W/M doubleheader doesn't work because your seat for the women's game may already belong to a different season ticket holder on the men's side.

Because SDSU sells -basketball- season tickets, they can have doubleheaders. And because they have doubleheaders, IMO, they create probably the best Saturday game experience in the Summit.

Seriously. If you don't enjoy spending Saturday nights at Frost, either you're not a Jackrabbit fan, or you've been wired the wrong way.

I just wish they'd come up with some engaging activities/promotions/whatever to fill the gap between the games.

----

Tangential rant:

I like Jeff Kolpeck. But man alive do I get tired of him complaining about Monday WBB games. In fact, I get tired of NDSU affiliated people blaming their poor attendance on Monday games. I don't like that Kolpack went so far as to suggest that playing WBB on an 'inconvenient' night constituted a Title IX issue. And Kolpack (who I generally respect, don't get me wrong) is just the loudest voice.

Hate to burst your bubble, guys, but it's not the Monday games that are the problem. It's your team.

[zooropa]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

On the cowbell thing:

Speaking from memory, the issue with cowbells is that the athletic department didn't want to risk technical fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct penalties due to noise making during play, and so they banned them outright.

At least that's the 'company line' I remember being given to the Collegian and the Argus.

[goon]

Re: The Frost Arena game environment

Yep, the last bleacher has to be a certain distance back from the support for the basket. When they used the hanging baskets, this wasn't an issue. Not using those anymore because of sight lines and other issues.

the new baskets with the supports I feel block more of the sight lines. When we had the old beachers they were for the most part under the hanging baskets providing more seating at that level and better lines, and were closer to the court. why cant the media be up in the rafters again. that extra row really moved the student section back. also raising the bleachers up sure didnt help any.