Onward and upward

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Onward and upward

I just read that article from the Collegian posted in the Transition Article thread. I had forgotten that we started the season 5-6. I guess that frustrates me more than anything. After beating UNI and playing well against some really good programs, we should have had some momentum going into the conference schedule. That momentum resulted in a 3-15 run. 3-15? And a lot of those games were embarrassments. I've never coached basketball beyond a 6th grade level so I'm not going to make any declarations about coaching changes. However, turning 5-6 into 8-21 in one of the weakest D1 basketball conferences has to have anyone concerned. A 3-15 finish to the season is not a positive indication no matter how SDSU-centric you are. And, I'm about as SDSUcentric as it gets.

By the way, all of our coaching staffs are undermanned compared to the majority of their competition. I have a hard time believing the addition of one more assistant coach is the end-all answer. The football team watches films in trailors circa 1950 and get dressed in a locker-room only a prisoner could appreciate. The baseball team practices in the barn most of the time due to weather. Our facilities and coaching staffs are never going to be top notch. All teams have to make due not being the rich kids on the block.

Let's all be honest and say this was the worst stretch of SDSU mens basketball in school history and 10 times worse than most of us ever imagined when we made the transition. It's not wrong to start asking questions like "what went wrong." I would be concerned if those questions weren't asked. Unfortunately, most of those questions are going to be placed on the coaches shoulders. That's the nature of the job. It's his job to right the ship or he'll lose the ship. There's no coach hating or anti-Nagy in any of those statements. As the doc likes to say, those are the facts.

[22jack]

Re: Onward and upward

I think one thing that went wrong this year is that we lost two back to back heart breaking games in OT in California. The team did not seem the same after that. I am not sure that the young players ever recovered.

[BTownJack]

Re: Onward and upward

Losing the following game by 1 point against Oakland on a questionable goaltending call also added to the misery. That was when this team started to become good at how to lose games.

[bballfan54]

Re: Onward and upward

We lost a few games by just a few points so next year we must make sure we win those games, WE HAVE THE PLAYERS.

[jack power]

Re: Onward and upward

I think one thing that went wrong this year is that we lost two back to back heart breaking games in OT in California. The team did not seem the same after that. I am not sure that the young players ever recovered.

I agree with that. Those two loses,followed by the Oakland one, seemed to kick the life out of them

[BTownJack]

Re: Onward and upward

It looks as though Terry would agree with us. From his latest blog post:

Some thoughts to wrap up the men's basketball season:
SDSU (8-21) lost 10 games by six points or less. Southern Utah (seven) was the only other team in the Summit League that lost more than five by such a narrow margin. The Jacks also earned four wins by the same spread, meaning about half of their games were decided by two possessions - up from eight such instances in the 2006-07 season. What's more, SDSU had a turnover margin of minus-4.17, worst in the league by more than 3.

The Jacks also finished last in the conference in scoring, defensive 3-point field goal percentage, steals and assist/turnover margin and ninth in 3-pointers, 3-point percentage and assists.

The turning point of the season: SDSU arrived in California for a pair of games sporting a 5-6 record and riding consecutive victories. But the Jacks blew a five-point lead in the final two minutes of an overtime loss at Cal State-Bakersfield, blew a 17-point lead in the second half of an overtime loss at San Jose State and then dropped a one-point decision to Oakland at Frost Arena due to a questionable goaltending call. Instead of being 8-6, the Jacks were 5-9. Think that might have damaged the psyche of a team that started two freshmen and two sophomores?

.....

There was an agitated determination following a season-ending loss to Centenary. Dale Moss muttered something about ensuring this never happens again while walking into the locker room, and Williams said that he plans on winning 20 games next year. The problem is that you can't simulate winning close contests in the offseason. Will the Jacks benefit from another year of experience? Yes. Could they use a couple more dynamic players? Sure. But this group, all things considered, at least proved to be competitive - for 38 minutes. The success of the 2008-09 season will boil down to getting it done when the clock winds down.

[Read the rest of his post...it is a great summary of the season and an outlook for next year.]
(read more)

[propar80]

Re: Onward and upward

That's got to be one of TV's best blog entries yet! I got goosebumps reading the last part and am already looking forward to next year...and I'm a football fan!!

Would any of us thought they could even have had a CHANCE to be 8-6 at one point during this year, before the year started?? I know I would've bet against it, but it was that close to to happening. That same situation next year, SDSU wins those three games and I suspect a few more.

And BTW, the 2186 attendance is ACTUAL attendance(if not low)...I'm pretty sure there are other teams in our league that can't say that with a straight face.

Go Jacks!!

[Jacks-D1]

Re: Onward and upward

The bottom line for me is that the last 2 years we have gone 6-24 and 8-21; and the 2 years before that weren't very good either. You can give all the reasons, stats, etc you want for this, but it still happened. It can't keep happening or a coaching change has to be made. The question is should the coaching change happen now or should it be given another year. Right now I'm leaning toward one more year, but its close. If things don't turn around next year, then I think a change has to be made.

[rabbitstail]

Re: Onward and upward

Many people have critisized my suggestion that SDSU plays one maybe two home games in the Sioux Falls Arena. They should do this for 2 reasons: 1. Marketing people, it is the largest populated area in South Dakota, we need these people to get on board with SDSU athletics. We need these people driving 40 miles to come see a game. We need to fill the stands, and that will get it done. Plus no big time bcs school is going to play at Frost. Why do you think everyone of Gonzagas non-conference big time opponents are played at Key West Arena in Seattle. No body is coming to the Kennel to play them there. 2. Raise Money: Most of the big time money in SD is in Sioux Falls, we need to be able to raise funds for our programs in Sioux Falls, how do you do that. Get a bcs school to come in and play. Place will be packed, many people will leave excited about SDSU hoops. For god sakes, why do you think UCONN plays most of its games in Hartford, CN. I am not talking a whole season I am talking about 1 or 2 games to raise the profile of our program.

I have also been blasted about thinking about the program being competitive nationally. Now do I think we can win National Championships, probably not going to happen, do I think we can be competitive on the National scene. Heck ya! why not. Gonzaga has done it in the WCC in Spokane, Wash. Has anyone here been to Spokane? Butler is doing it now. It can be done, but the mentallity has to change 1st. 1st you have to think you can succed, to think we can not compete because we are in Brookings,SD is crazy. To make this happen, like I stated in an earlier post, you have to recruit outside the box. Can you recruit all local kids and have a chance, no. You have to take in a big time transfer ( once to go somewhere where he can be the man), international players (usually don't no the difference between Duke and SDSU), jcs (a lot of the big schools won't touch), and sprinkle in some good hard working local talent and you can compete. Plus if you show you can compete all of a sudden home grown studs like Colton Iverson and Cody Larson might stay home.

Than I get blasted by comparing the Summit League to the NCC. But the best teams in the NCC would be very competitive in the Summit league. the best SDSU teams would not finish dead last. Maybe middle of the pack to top half of the league but not last. Ask Tim Miles, his NDSU teams went into places where they thought they had no chance, (Marquette and Wisconsin) and won. He would tell you that these teams were not even his best teams. It can be done, but 1st the adminstration has to believe and invest in the program, than the players and coaches have to believe, and than the fans have to believe. We can compete at this level, just ask Tim Miles!

[joeboo22]

Re: Onward and upward

The reason nobody comes to the Kennel is because they have proven they can win at home.... In the future when Sioux Falls builds a nice basketball facility I would be 100% for playing a game there, and maybe play 1 game in Rapid a year if it worked out.... But I also think until we prove that we can win at home we should play all of the home games at Frost..... Right now if SDSU plays in Sioux Falls you are going to get about the same amount that are attending the games in Brookings right now..... So rather then take away a home game from a young team I would rather keep the games in frost for now.... If 2,3-5 years down the line the mens program has developed and is a 20 win team then I would consider playing a game or 2 in Sioux Falls.... But right now there is no advantage to playing in the arena, it seats about the same (maybe even less) its not a nice facility by any means and unless its packed its a pretty poor atmosphere to play a basketball game.... So short term I think SDSU should care about developing on the court so get as many home games as possible and then long term yeah get a game or 2 in Sioux Falls.....

[RabbitinTea]

Re: Onward and upward

First off, I'm against playing a game in Rapid. I think it would be nice for those fans out there, but it's just not going to happen. It's a big enough deal to move a home game to SF, there's no way a game is going out to Rapid. That is, unless it's a Wyoming type of matchup where there's a draw.

Secondly, I was at the game versus Manhatten in the Arena and I don't believe attendance was much to get excited about. I think it was a weekday, but I don't think we drew any more than we would have in Frost on a weekday against a team like Manhatten. I think someday we could pack in more people in the Arena, but not until we're winning more. The only reason I'd be in support of a game at the Arena is to get the guys used to playing there...make it more of a home game like someone said earlier. All thoughts that we'd exceed attendence in SF is a pipe dream...see UC Davis for football and Manhatten in basketball.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Onward and upward

First off, I'm against playing a game in Rapid. I think it would be nice for those fans out there, but it's just not going to happen. It's a big enough deal to move a home game to SF, there's no way a game is going out to Rapid. That is, unless it's a Wyoming type of matchup where there's a draw.

Secondly, I was at the game versus Manhatten in the Arena and I don't believe attendance was much to get excited about. I think it was a weekday, but I don't think we drew any more than we would have in Frost on a weekday against a team like Manhatten. I think someday we could pack in more people in the Arena, but not until we're winning more. The only reason I'd be in support of a game at the Arena is to get the guys used to playing there...make it more of a home game like someone said earlier. All thoughts that we'd exceed attendence in SF is a pipe dream...see UC Davis for football and Manhatten in basketball.

I think it was a different thread where I said playing in Rapid may be a good idea, my comment was in regards to the Wyoming game possibility and not any other game. I think it would be a really good draw in Rapid and would give alumni out there a chance to see SDSU that they wouldn't get otherwise. There are alot of west river SDSU alumns, I think playing a game out there every couple seasons would be good for interest.

There could be some benefit playing a game or two in SF over the next couple seasons just to get familiarity with the arena considering that is where the conference tourney will be the next two seasons. However, as Joeboo stated, the facility isn't nearly as nice as Frost, doesn't have any better seating capacity, and takes home court advantage away from a team that greatly benefits from it. Also, until we have a good product (.500 or better team) to show the people of Sioux Falls, I don't know that a game here would draw all that well, and a big-time BCS school would be no more likely to accept a game in Sioux Falls than in Brookings.

As for rabbittails assertion that the NCC is an equivalent conference to the Summit League, I'm sorry but you've gotta quit smoking whatever it is you've been smoking. The players are simply bigger, faster, stronger, and more talented than D2 players. Guards are 6-3 instead of 5-10, forwards are 6-8 instead of 6-5, and players are more athletic than in the NCC. The NCC is a great DII conference, and we had some great teams when we played there, but its still not DI basketball. Yes there were some players from SDSU and other NCC schools that could have probably succeeded playing for a DI school, but the whole rosters couldn't. Its a different level, whether you care to admit it or not.

[joeboo22]

Re: Onward and upward

When I say Rapid it would only be if it was a way to get schools like Wyoming, Colorado, or Montana on a neutral court..... I agree that I wouldn't move an actual home game out there....

[Jackbit]

Re: Onward and upward

Terry's last paragraph is probably going to be the key to next year: The development of our current players and their off-season. For our players and coaches, the first conference season gives us a gauge to judge a number of factors. For the first time our players can be motivated during the off-season by conference performances. You cannot underestimate the power of the "bitter taste" that is in our current players and coaches. It gives them fire power for off-season lifting and workouts. "Do you remember what (insert teams and players here) did to you last year?" "What are you doing everyday to ensure that doesn't happen again?" During the transition, there just wasn't any consistency in our schedule to make a fair evaluation of what it was going to be like for our men's basketball team. The downfalls over the past years are well-documented, but for the first time our players and coaches can be motivated on post-season rewards. Whether we think it is realistic or not, does not matter. The fact that Kai, Garrett, and the rest of them can go to the weight room and have hope does matter. That hope will go a long way toward improvement.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Onward and upward

As for rabbittails assertion that the NCC is an equivalent conference to the Summit League, I'm sorry but you've gotta quit smoking whatever it is you've been smoking. The players are simply bigger, faster, stronger, and more talented than D2 players. Guards are 6-3 instead of 5-10, forwards are 6-8 instead of 6-5, and players are more athletic than in the NCC. The NCC is a great DII conference, and we had some great teams when we played there, but its still not DI basketball. Yes there were some players from SDSU and other NCC schools that could have probably succeeded playing for a DI school, but the whole rosters couldn't. Its a different level, whether you care to admit it or not.

Ben Beran would have average 20 a game in the NCC - especially the current version of the NCC. The NCC's likely player of the year was a non-factor at Iowa St. This year's SDSU men's team would have won the NCC handily - that's the opinion of many of my friends who played for non-SDSU NCC basketball teams within the past 5-10 years. Guys who have no bias or reason to make those statements.