Overview and Random Thoughts

[RochJack69]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Defense is everything in every sport. Coach, you should know that. You have to adjust. You can't choose a player just on scoring skills. If that's the case, Dennis Rodman wouldn't have gotten any floor time.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Defense is everything in every sport. Coach, you should know that. You have to adjust. You can't choose a player just on scoring skills. If that's the case, Dennis Rodman wouldn't have gotten any floor time.

Dexter Werner is another example although he can score some too. But he sure aint out-athleting many guys. But he out works nearly everyone.

[jakejc795]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Defense is everything in every sport. Coach, you should know that. You have to adjust. You can't choose a player just on scoring skills. If that's the case, Dennis Rodman wouldn't have gotten any floor time.

If King's on the bench for the bulk of the remainder of the season, I'll definitely be disappointed. If he transfers, that's a whole other level of disappointment. I enjoy watching him play because he strikes me as a scrapper, and I think he's underrated, but I'm not a hoops expert; probably can't even be considered a novice. I just enjoy watching the Jacks.

I guess I understood Otz's response to indicate staff felt another player might be better suited for Omaha.

[jakejc795]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Dexter Werner is another example although he can score some too. But he sure aint out-athleting many guys. But he out works nearly everyone.

Man, first the Jacks lose and now Dexter merits a mention. Hopefully Zenner can spur a Lions comeback to lessen the pain (and I'm not even a Lions fan) .

Seriously though, I'll admit one of the reasons Werner irks me are the qualities you noted.

[OldHare]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

I could almost bought the Nagy left the cupboard bare if those players were the primary players on the floor. Defense may need to be coached more than offense. 101 points scored against 93 and we are looking for offense? When you explain it to me talk real slow so that I can enjoy your optimism.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Yeah I caught that too....we want guys who if they're on the floor can score the basketball?? I'm still convinced in midmajor basketball you win by defense. My theory seems right with ndsu and Nagy sdsu controlling the summit league. It should be ... we want guys on the floor that can make stops and play defense.

I don't think I could agree more. At this level your arent going to be able to recruit a bunch of guys that can out score everyone. Its not gonna happen. Gotta be tougher than the other team. TJ is in for rude awakening if he thinks thats what he gonna go.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Man, first the Jacks lose and now Dexter merits a mention. Hopefully Zenner can spur a Lions comeback to lessen the pain (and I'm not even a Lions fan) .

Seriously though, I'll admit one of the reasons Werner irks me are the qualities you noted.

I don't like him either. One of those guys you LOVE to have on your team and hate to play against him.

[OldHare]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

If you were watching the game, it appeared that Daum was trying to foul a couple of times late just before the run. The one foul seemed to be a frustration foul as the Jackrabbits were getting their tail kicked. TJ might be in the stubborn zone to make any further adjustments. How can players go from playing defense that would take them to the SLT championship game and a game in the round of 64 to a bunch of guys who cannot play defense at all? Please talk real slow so I can understand. Remember that more than half the minutes were played by transfers tonight. It seems that with a couple of exceptions that the returning roster may have more potential for retention problems.

[JackJD]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Dexter Werner is another example although he can score some too. But he sure aint out-athleting many guys. But he out works nearly everyone.

Very true. The guy has no quit in him.

A couple of posts speculate on losing players to transfer (Gentry isn't speculation -- the coach said he's transferring out). If you're going to talk about transfers, keep in mind the board's rule about attribution and some outside proof that a transfer is going to happen.

[TK22867]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

If you're going to talk about transfers, keep in mind the board's rule about attribution and some outside proof that a transfer is going to happen.

Be careful what you ask for. Perhaps we should discuss the nitty gritty details of why one certain WBK transferred out for a season and then came back again? Or no????

[BTownJack]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Be careful what you ask for. Perhaps we should discuss the nitty gritty details of why one certain WBK transferred out for a season and then came back again? Or no????

Agreed!

[jacksstudent]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Here's what concerning to me: TJ is 100% about offense. I don't know what the exact #s are but I'd be shocked if in the last 5-7 years of the summit league championship game if either of the two teams playing weren't top 4 in conference in overall defense.
how I know he's all about offense?
1.) at Iowa state and Washington neither of those teams were quote on quote defensive teams. So who he's learned from.
2.) it's no secret around campus and us students who know the players the first thing tj told them..."he likes to play uptempo, shoot a lot of 3's, and literally said we will worry about defense later" yes the players immediately loved him but when I heard this it was quite alarming. Expectations with the players defense is not important.
3.) outside of Syracuse and I'm not even 100% you can include them in this, have you ever seen a team strictly resort to one style of defense without giving other looks, because zone gives us the best opportunity on the "offensive end"-have heard that multiple times in press conference.
4.) Every press conference seems to be the same thing...questions energy and effort and then talks about offense.
last night when tj said king wasn't in rotation because they need guys on the floor who can score....might be the most alarming of everything. How about " I want guys who can get stops on the floor"

Im not advocating for this but fans don't be stupid he will not be fired before his contract is up. No way will they fire the first multi year contract coach. So I'm not saying he should be fired because it will never happen.
But i also think it doesn't do any good to make every excuse for him as well. No players, first year coach, guys aren't giving effort, new players, new scheme. We have one of the best homecourt advantages in midmajor basketball with arguably the best midmajor player in college basketball and NBA prospect. We should be better than what we are and since no one else will say it I will "maybe otz isn't putting them in the best position to win??" Idk

Go go look at before the season at our 2016 recruiting thread....yes we lost a lot but we also talked about how loaded we are, how Marquette would be drooling over Howell, how great our transfers look etc. how is anyone going to stop daum and company....now we talk about- well it's not his fault he has no players or he's never been a head coach.


sorry for the rant - I'm trying to stay optimistic -But i just would like some defense played.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

Here's what concerning to me: TJ is 100% about offense. I don't know what the exact #s are but I'd be shocked if in the last 5-7 years of the summit league championship game if either of the two teams playing weren't top 4 in conference in overall defense.
how I know he's all about offense?
1.) at Iowa state and Washington neither of those teams were quote on quote defensive teams. So who he's learned from.
2.) it's no secret around campus and us students who know the players the first thing tj told them..."he likes to play uptempo, shoot a lot of 3's, and literally said we will worry about defense later" yes the players immediately loved him but when I heard this it was quite alarming. Expectations with the players defense is not important.
3.) outside of Syracuse and I'm not even 100% you can include them in this, have you ever seen a team strictly resort to one style of defense without giving other looks, because zone gives us the best opportunity on the "offensive end"-have heard that multiple times in press conference.
4.) Every press conference seems to be the same thing...questions energy and effort and then talks about offense.
last night when tj said king wasn't in rotation because they need guys on the floor who can score....might be the most alarming of everything. How about " I want guys who can get stops on the floor"

Im not advocating for this but fans don't be stupid he will not be fired before his contract is up. No way will they fire the first multi year contract coach. So I'm not saying he should be fired because it will never happen.
But i also think it doesn't do any good to make every excuse for him as well. No players, first year coach, guys aren't giving effort, new players, new scheme. We have one of the best homecourt advantages in midmajor basketball with arguably the best midmajor player in college basketball and NBA prospect. We should be better than what we are and since no one else will say it I will "maybe otz isn't putting them in the best position to win??" Idk

Go go look at before the season at our 2016 recruiting thread....yes we lost a lot but we also talked about how loaded we are, how Marquette would be drooling over Howell, how great our transfers look etc. how is anyone going to stop daum and company....now we talk about- well it's not his fault he has no players or he's never been a head coach.


sorry for the rant - I'm trying to stay optimistic -But i just would like some defense played.

+1

Good post

[joeboo22]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

I watched most of the game yesterday and here are the concerns.

1. the offense- with the personal and the lack of defense I'd slow it down run issos to Daum, put Tellinghusin in the corner play a bunch of 2 man basketball and ball movement to get shots. I'd essentially ugly the crap out of the game on offense. This sounds counter productive, but the problem is when you give up the high 3 % and high shooting percentage uglying the game up might be your best option. There is more to Offense-Defensive relationship, my junior high team this year really struggles in a set offense, so I press and trap to try to get fast break opportunities. When I've had poor defensive teams I'd run gimick defenses, point zone, & 1's, and traps..... I'd also try to always have 1 defensive player on the floor at all times.

2. Defense- a team like UNO doesn't beat you off the dribble, they are good at shooting and ball movement, the 2 zone killers, so sitting in a zone especially a 2-3 zone most of the first half didn't make sense to me.

3. personal- You do have to understand this is his team, and he has his guys, and that makes sense. I'm a coach and when I've taken over a program I take little with what happened before me. At the same time though, if your ability to hit a 3 is what is getting you on the floor I have problems with it. I thought the PG play was terrible, I thought the defense was terrible. And if players are in the doghouse, or whatever I understand, every coach has a doghouse, but when your defense is that bad and your doghouse is the ones who play defense, I do start to question it.

4. looking forward- I think you do have to look at positives, and understand that the recruits he was able to bring in to fit his system were jucos and grad transfers so let him get a recruiting class or two before you say failure or success, but if I'm playing a team like UNO, a team who I feel I should beat, and I'm giving up 50+ in the first half I need to look in the mirror.

Many coaches try to run their opponents out of the arena, but very few make it work.

When it comes to coaches and defense there are your different types, there are the Nagy's of the world who believe in man-to-man and think yelling at players until they figure it out is the way to go. There our coaches who essentially don't care about defense and feel there is nothing to coach about it, and then there are those who are built around a defense.

[CappinHard]

Re: Overview and Random Thoughts

I agree with everyone else in saying that it was painful watching the defense against Omaha. Here's an article from Zimmer on the zone defense.

http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/south-dakota-state-university/2017/01/10/sdsu-men-committed-zone-defense/96380856/

After reading Zim's article, I can agree that when the energy is there, the zone can work. In the start of the 2nd half against Omaha, they came out with some fire and really disrupted Omaha's offense. The problem is, they're still not comfortable with it and make a lot of mistakes that lead to open shots. You can tell watching them when there's a break down they will talk to each other about it and figure out who was supposed to be covering. I also agree that zone may give this team the best chance, but it won't be effective until they can play it without thinking and can do it at 100% speed. I just don't think this team is deep enough to be able to run an effective all out zone defense all game. Which brings me to the point that I think we have to at least give man defense another shot. No, it didn't work out of conference and against some really good teams... it's probably going to work better against Summit League teams. The zone got us some wins right when we introduced it because teams probably weren't ready for it and hadn't game planned for it. Now that they know it's coming, it's so easy to scheme against. It's going to be a long, painful season.