GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

And a couple of stats from the games the Jacks played man vs zone. Jacks were 1-6 in the games they played man - Daum averaged 32.6 minutes and scored 18.4 ppg. They are 6-3 in the games they played zone with Mike playing 31.7 minutes and scoring 24.3 ppg.

Now, let's not let actual stats get in the way of a good flame-throwing thread! Seriously? Facts? C'mon man!

SUPERBUNNY

[OldHare]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

And a couple of stats from the games the Jacks played man vs zone. Jacks were 1-6 in the games they played man - Daum averaged 32.6 minutes and scored 18.4 ppg. They are 6-3 in the games they played zone with Mike playing 31.7 minutes and scoring 24.3 ppg.

I would not be in favor of sitting Mike Daum more than necessary. I am also flabbergasted that the bison laid 58 points on the scoreboard in the second half. The switch to the zone cannot be the final adjustment for the year. I am hoping for a response from the coaches & team that shackles the yotes on Saturday. That will cool the burn some. The 3 losses of UNI, WSU, and bison could be expected much like the 6 wins that included much easier opponents. Coach Otz may need to stomp those feet loud on Saturday.

[mango4]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

I think that is not correct -- and I recall this point has been discussed in another thread or perhaps early in this thread. I believe the Bison were the last team to beat the Jacks in Frost before the long streak which ended last night, was started. The prior long home-win streak was broken by Montana. So, the Bison put the bookends on the win streak.

Big question is will the next win streak start Saturday against USD? What a dilemma: if the streak was to end -- and I think many thought it was certain to end this season -- what is or would have been more palatable: NDSU ending it or we beat NDSU but lose to USD?

On the Waconia High School girls coach: when we were searching for Nagy's replacement, that coach posted on this message board in an obvious lobbying effort for Ryan Miller. There were a couple of threads in March and April of 2016 in which Ryan Miller's name was brought up as a candidate.

CasualJacksFan. I figured as soon as I saw the tweet from the Waconia coach it had to be him. He posted after the UNI loss as well.

[thumper_76]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

And that's why we love you guys. But hey, you are a women's basketball college. Nothing wrong with that...might as well own it.



*I'm sorry to the moderating staff if that comes off as too smacky in a non-smack thread...but the set up was there and gosh darn it the punch line had to be delivered.

See, this is why I don't use that. Im too sly to fall into your trap. Besides, the Bison women are the definition of a dumpster fire.


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[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

And a couple of stats from the games the Jacks played man vs zone. Jacks were 1-6 in the games they played man - Daum averaged 32.6 minutes and scored 18.4 ppg. They are 6-3 in the games they played zone with Mike playing 31.7 minutes and scoring 24.3 ppg.

Do you really think the zone defense is the reason we have a better record in the last 9 vs. the first 7? I challenge you to look at our defensive numbers from those games and compare and contrast.


Do you think, maybe...just maybe the reason we are winning is our offense is light years better than it was at the beginning of the season? The defense may have a small impact on that but it's more that our guys/coaches have figured out what works on that end of the court.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Now, let's not let actual stats get in the way of a good flame-throwing thread! Seriously? Facts? C'mon man!

SUPERBUNNY

You want to talk facts. Look at our defensive numbers when we were in man vs. when we were in zone. We were sh@tty in man but you'll find we are "almost" equally sh@tty playing zone.

[bigticket1]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Maybe our offense is better because we play our best three offensive players big minutes, and they aren't expending as much energy chasing their man around when in the zone. And are we happier when we allow fewer points and lose ?

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Those Mitchell folks hang together and they are the best

No, not all Mitchell folks hang together.

[thumper_76]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Maybe our offense is better because we play our best three offensive players big minutes, and they aren't expending as much energy chasing their man around when in the zone. And are we happier when we allow fewer points and lose ?

Good gravy it sure seems like some people would be.


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[OldHare]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Maybe our offense is better because we play our best three offensive players big minutes, and they aren't expending as much energy chasing their man around when in the zone. And are we happier when we allow fewer points and lose ?

That argument might or might not hold water. I recall when we saw 6 players most every night carry the load. Those guys won a few games while logging huge minutes each game. 5 starters averaged over 30 minutes per game. One fellow named Wolters had 38+ per game. 2012-13 was the year.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

That argument might or might not hold water. I recall when we saw 6 players most every night carry the load. Those guys won a few games while logging huge minutes each game. 5 starters averaged over 30 minutes per game. One fellow named Wolters had 38+ per game. 2012-13 was the year.

I don't really buy that argument either. That team also featured a 6'-7" centerman. But this year we are a undersized........according to some here.

Paul Miller played 40 minutes last night and scored 21 points all while playing man to man defense.

We can sit here and argue about this affecting that and so on, but the bottom line is until our defense improves we are going to be wildly inconsistent. I think the 6-3 record with "the zone" is a little fools gold. If you look at the numbers you'll see some concerning trends.

[91jack]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

And a couple of stats from the games the Jacks played man vs zone. Jacks were 1-6 in the games they played man - Daum averaged 32.6 minutes and scored 18.4 ppg. They are 6-3 in the games they played zone with Mike playing 31.7 minutes and scoring 24.3 ppg.

I am a stats guy but I don't really think it's this black and white. In the first few games, Hess, Orris and Wallace didn't play worth a darn. In the first game of the regular season; Hess, Wallace and Gentry and Flatten were a combined 0-14 from the floor. Dykman was 1-1. Reed and Daum jacked up about half of the teams shots. Some of these players are playing much better right now.
Hess averaged about 3 PPG during the first 4 games and only had 3 points last night. During all of the other games of the season, he is averaging 13 PPG. If he hit his average last night, SDSU would have been right there. Did Hess not score because we were playing man-to-man or because he only played 10, 8, 11 and 34 minutes? He did score 31 points one game where we played man-to-man and that is his highest scoring output by 13 points.
Orris has averaged 7 PPG over the last 4 games after only playing 13 minutes and scoring 1 point in the first 12 games combined. Does this have to do with man vs zone?
I'm not saying that it makes much difference either way but I think it is taking a while for the players and coaches to get a feel for what everybody can and should be doing. The coaches must think we don't have the correct players to play man-to-man and I have to trust their judgement. They came in late and couldn't pick their players of choice. We played man-to-man last season and Devine didn't play a ton so Theisen and Daum must have been OK at staying out of foul trouble.
The only thing I know they have figured out for sure is if Daum in the game give him the ball once or twice every trip down the floor. I don't remember if they did that from the beginning of the season or not.

[bigticket1]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

My Reply with Quote feature is not working, so sorry if I do not seem to be replying directly to posts. Theisen and Daum didn't get in foul trouble last year because they were sharing time at the 5 and were seldom on the floor at the same time. Telly played the 4 in the man defense. Also, could it be that Hess and Wallace got little or no time in the early games because they weren't good man to man defenders ? I don't think we can draw any conclusions on Orris since he didn't get any minutes regardless of what defense we were playing until the last couple of games.

[91jack]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

My Reply with Quote feature is not working, so sorry if I do not seem to be replying directly to posts. Theisen and Daum didn't get in foul trouble last year because they were sharing time at the 5 and were seldom on the floor at the same time. Telly played the 4 in the man defense. Also, could it be that Hess and Wallace got little or no time in the early games because they weren't good man to man defenders ? I don't think we can draw any conclusions on Orris since he didn't get any minutes regardless of what defense we were playing until the last couple of games.

I see what you are saying but Theisen and Daum are only playing about 48 minutes/game this season so it would be close to the same as last season. They would only be on the floor about 4 minutes together the way things are.
Wallace played about 15 minutes/game from the beginning from the season so he isn't playing much more out less now than he did then.
Hess only played less time the first 3 games and it has been around 30 minutes/game since then.
It makes sense that all of the new guards can't play man to man so they just have to change to zone.

[bigticket1]

Re: GDT: Jackrabbits vs Bison

Now that I've mentioned having problems with the Reply with Quote feature, has anyone else had problems with it on this site ? It allows me to type in letters, but the space bar does not work, so you cannot get separation between words. Everything works fine using the regular Reply feature. It started out doing this only on our desk-top, and my Chromebook worked fine. Now it does it on both devices. It seems to be a problem on this site only - I post on a couple of other message boards and everything works fine on those. Any suggestions would be appreciated - it bugs the heck out of me to not be able to reply to specific posts.