Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

[bigticket1]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Clearly you aren't the AD. If you were, you'd be thinking of ways to involve more fans and endearing them towards your program. USD's strategy was to do just that. Make an effort to get more people interested in Coyote athletics. I do t know how you measure success, and whether our game with them was successful in terms of creating interest and expanding fan base.

For or my money, I wished none of those types of games ever existed. If you are doing it as favor that is owed to the fan base, then I guess ok. But if you are doing it to try and create interest for future ticket sales I think it's ridiculous. A case in point was the absolute albatross football game we played against NDSU in Sioux Falls. We aren't ready to play that game, then to play a "home game" where the opponents had nearly as many as we did was stupid. I have appealed to our administration over the years to stop experimenting with the Sioux Falls fan base. If they aren't coming, they aren't coming. The only way to cure that is by winning and creating fan interest in being part of something special. Thus far we haven't been able to do that.

I congratulate your athletic department for sticking to their guns on this topic. You're teams represent your university well, and they have been good enough to create some excitement. What happens when you have a down year or two is an unknown, but for now I applaud how you've done it. It is hard to get big caliber teams into either Brookings or Vermillion, but you've done a good job of that as well. We need forward thinking administrators and coaches to start scheduling more quality opponents at home, that also creates fan interest. Our men's BB team playing Peru State a week ago is ridiculous. Pissed me off we would even do that.

Lastly, you said you'd prefer to go to Stanford for a beat down rather than give up a home and home. First of all, most teams you have played at that caliber you have played hard, won some, and represented the Jacks very well. The product you have on the floor has been very good the past 2-3 years. So I wouldn't assume it would be a beat down. I would assume you would play them to the end.

In closing, I will say this. I think the Joe Glenn hire was good, the question is how long he can take that grind at his age. Secondly, if we can get a coach that can recruit basketball players on a more national scene, and get players that aren't quite Big 12 or Big 10, yet can play well in the Summit, and have enough of them that collectively they can play the big boys for the most part on a night to big basis, then I do think USD fan interest will expand. But not in Sioux Falls, but rather the Sioux City and Yankton markets. I see interest out there, you just have to cultivate it some how. Again, SDSU has done a very good job in doing this. Now is the time to build your stadium with all the interest growing.

I would love to see a doubleheader around Christmas time featuring SDSU and USD against two "name" teams in the new event center when it is completed. You would probably need a Sanford type sponsor (Sanford Holiday Classic ?) to make it happen. I think you could draw 10,000 plus if the field is strong enough.

[Nidaros]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Clearly you aren't the AD. If you were, you'd be thinking of ways to involve more fans and endearing them towards your program. USD's strategy was to do just that. Make an effort to get more people interested in Coyote athletics. I do t know how you measure success, and whether our game with them was successful in terms of creating interest and expanding fan base.

For or my money, I wished none of those types of games ever existed. If you are doing it as favor that is owed to the fan base, then I guess ok. But if you are doing it to try and create interest for future ticket sales I think it's ridiculous. A case in point was the absolute albatross football game we played against NDSU in Sioux Falls. We aren't ready to play that game, then to play a "home game" where the opponents had nearly as many as we did was stupid. I have appealed to our administration over the years to stop experimenting with the Sioux Falls fan base. If they aren't coming, they aren't coming. The only way to cure that is by winning and creating fan interest in being part of something special. Thus far we haven't been able to do that.

I congratulate your athletic department for sticking to their guns on this topic. You're teams represent your university well, and they have been good enough to create some excitement. What happens when you have a down year or two is an unknown, but for now I applaud how you've done it. It is hard to get big caliber teams into either Brookings or Vermillion, but you've done a good job of that as well. We need forward thinking administrators and coaches to start scheduling more quality opponents at home, that also creates fan interest. Our men's BB team playing Peru State a week ago is ridiculous. Pissed me off we would even do that.

Lastly, you said you'd prefer to go to Stanford for a beat down rather than give up a home and home. First of all, most teams you have played at that caliber you have played hard, won some, and represented the Jacks very well. The product you have on the floor has been very good the past 2-3 years. So I wouldn't assume it would be a beat down. I would assume you would play them to the end.

In closing, I will say this. I think the Joe Glenn hire was good, the question is how long he can take that grind at his age. Secondly, if we can get a coach that can recruit basketball players on a more national scene, and get players that aren't quite Big 12 or Big 10, yet can play well in the Summit, and have enough of them that collectively they can play the big boys for the most part on a night to big basis, then I do think USD fan interest will expand. But not in Sioux Falls, but rather the Sioux City and Yankton markets. I see interest out there, you just have to cultivate it some how. Again, SDSU has done a very good job in doing this. Now is the time to build your stadium with all the interest growing.

This experimenting with the SF fan base was highly recommended in the Carr Report. The report and study whose purpose was the feasibility of moving up to DI. Some times experts even get it wrong, and in this case they should have made more detailed studies the Sioux Falls area. They would have found that the support for USD and SDSU, beyond alums is not there. Some of the most disinterest people happen to be alums. If I recall correctly, I believe USD used a different firm to do their studies, but in this case both were wrong.

Back in 2002, I had an employee meeting in Orlando Florida, and I drove down taking annual leave. I drove through Troy, Alabama, as I had noticed the population was less than Brookings, but yet they found ways to move up from D2 and are currently a FBS football program. Some of their facilities were up to snuff, some were not such as their basketball facility. A beautiful baseball and football facilities. Troy is about the same distance from Montgomery as Brooking is from SF. I suspect they were told by their experts to go after the Montgomery fan base similar to SDSU and USD going after the SF fan base. It might have worked down there because the fans love a great football game and would travel 60 to 70 miles to do so. The Dakotas are unique. I do agree with YE, in having those events in SF did not pan out and did not create an automatic following. Creating a following takes time and effort.

Winning is a big key.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Clearly you aren't the AD. If you were, you'd be thinking of ways to involve more fans and endearing them towards your program. USD's strategy was to do just that. Make an effort to get more people interested in Coyote athletics. I do t know how you measure success, and whether our game with them was successful in terms of creating interest and expanding fan base.

For or my money, I wished none of those types of games ever existed. If you are doing it as favor that is owed to the fan base, then I guess ok. But if you are doing it to try and create interest for future ticket sales I think it's ridiculous. A case in point was the absolute albatross football game we played against NDSU in Sioux Falls. We aren't ready to play that game, then to play a "home game" where the opponents had nearly as many as we did was stupid. I have appealed to our administration over the years to stop experimenting with the Sioux Falls fan base. If they aren't coming, they aren't coming. The only way to cure that is by winning and creating fan interest in being part of something special. Thus far we haven't been able to do that.

I congratulate your athletic department for sticking to their guns on this topic. You're teams represent your university well, and they have been good enough to create some excitement. What happens when you have a down year or two is an unknown, but for now I applaud how you've done it. It is hard to get big caliber teams into either Brookings or Vermillion, but you've done a good job of that as well. We need forward thinking administrators and coaches to start scheduling more quality opponents at home, that also creates fan interest. Our men's BB team playing Peru State a week ago is ridiculous. Pissed me off we would even do that.

Lastly, you said you'd prefer to go to Stanford for a beat down rather than give up a home and home. First of all, most teams you have played at that caliber you have played hard, won some, and represented the Jacks very well. The product you have on the floor has been very good the past 2-3 years. So I wouldn't assume it would be a beat down. I would assume you would play them to the end.

In closing, I will say this. I think the Joe Glenn hire was good, the question is how long he can take that grind at his age. Secondly, if we can get a coach that can recruit basketball players on a more national scene, and get players that aren't quite Big 12 or Big 10, yet can play well in the Summit, and have enough of them that collectively they can play the big boys for the most part on a night to big basis, then I do think USD fan interest will expand. But not in Sioux Falls, but rather the Sioux City and Yankton markets. I see interest out there, you just have to cultivate it some how. Again, SDSU has done a very good job in doing this. Now is the time to build your stadium with all the interest growing.

Good post, I wanted to comment on the bold.

While I agree, it is a little like saying SDSU/USD need to sign a solid 7 footer. There are a finite number of prospects out there, and the good ones have the pick of where they go. Similar situation to trying to schedule for men's basketball.

Every team in the nation would like to schedule more and better games (especially at home). The trick is actually doing it. You might have a perfect storm once in awhile and get somebody like Nevada to come to Brookings. But your odds are a little better if you try to get Nevada to come to Sioux Falls. That's just reality.

Losing the bracketbuster games was huge. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks it was a joint effort by the power 6 and ESPN to get more power 6 conferences into the dance.

Somebody earlier mentioned a scheduling alliance between conferences to get more games. That would be awesome. It would be really cool for the sports authority to setup their own annual classic in Sioux Falls. Instead of playing classics on the road all the time to fill out our schedule we could play in one closer to home. It is also key to get the league back to 10 members so there are 2 less games schools have to schedule. Maybe a 10th league member bumps DSU off our schedule and Peru State off USD's.

Personally, there is no excuse for scheduling 3 non counter games. 2 maybe, 1 would be even better. Schedule as many DI's (even if you have to go on the road), win some lose some, but the program and league will be much better off in the long run.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Oh, and if we have no choice but to schedule DII's, we should grow a pair and play Augie and Northern. There would be more fan interest than facing Wayne State.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

This experimenting with the SF fan base was highly recommended in the Carr Report. The report and study whose purpose was the feasibility of moving up to DI. Some times experts even get it wrong, and in this case they should have made more detailed studies the Sioux Falls area. They would have found that the support for USD and SDSU, beyond alums is not there. Some of the most disinterest people happen to be alums. If I recall correctly, I believe USD used a different firm to do their studies, but in this case both were wrong.

Back in 2002, I had an employee meeting in Orlando Florida, and I drove down taking annual leave. I drove through Troy, Alabama, as I had noticed the population was less than Brookings, but yet they found ways to move up from D2 and are currently a FBS football program. Some of their facilities were up to snuff, some were not such as their basketball facility. A beautiful baseball and football facilities. Troy is about the same distance from Montgomery as Brooking is from SF. I suspect they were told by their experts to go after the Montgomery fan base similar to SDSU and USD going after the SF fan base. It might have worked down there because the fans love a great football game and would travel 60 to 70 miles to do so. The Dakotas are unique. I do agree with YE, in having those events in SF did not pan out and did not create an automatic following. Creating a following takes time and effort.

Winning is a big key.

We disagree on the "Manhattan experiment" and that's OK. But I gotta get my $.02 in.

I would argue that Carr was actually right, tapping the Sioux Falls market has been key to SDSU's success. The evolution of Midco Sports Channel and getting the Summit League Tournament allowed SDSU to use methods that were impossible for Carr to predict. Personally, I think playing games in Sioux Falls was abandoned due to Brookings fan feedback rather than success or failure (and all fan feedback for men's basketball was fairly negative in those days). Football may be a different story, but in that case there are fewer home games and you are up against the Beef Bowl and Hobo Day. I'm not sure Cal Poly would have drawn any better in Brookings.

Attendance figures against DI schools from that year and the year after:

4131 - NDSU (06-07)
4040 - NDSU (05-06)
2530 - Texas Pan-Am (06-07)
2233 - Southeast Missouri State (05-06)
2124 - Idaho (06-07)
2121 - Wisconsin-Milwaukee (05-06)
2083 - Manhattan (05-06)
2021 - Montana State (06-07)
2011 - Texas Pan-Am (05-06)
1968 - Butler (05-06)
1942 - Utah State (06-07)
1807 - IPFW (05-06)
1805 - Denver (05-06)
1587 - Central Florida (06-07)
1560 - Cal State Fullerton (06-07)
1551 - Utah Valley State (06-07)
1546 - UMKC (06-07)
1528 - Cal State Northridge
1445 - Utah Valley State (06-07)
1434 - Middle Tennessee State (06-07)
1227 - Arkansas State (06-07)
1220 - NJIT (06-07)
1010 - IPFW (06-07)

For two seasons, the Manhattan game in Sioux Falls outdrew every home game except NDSU and 4 other games. There were some VERY recognizable teams who came to Frost to a ho-hum reception. The next season, the team was a little better, we started conference play, and home attendance improved.

The "Manhattan Experiment" was very likely one of the selling points the sports authority used for getting the Summit League tournament to come to Sioux Falls. What a colossal failure.

[TK22867]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Somebody earlier mentioned a scheduling alliance between conferences to get more games. That would be awesome. It would be really cool for the sports authority to setup their own annual classic in Sioux Falls

I like where you are going with this. Why not a Summit/Missouri Valley combo? How bout a Saturday event consisting of USD/UNI followed by SDSU/Wichita State in Sioux Falls? You could do a Friday/Saturday combo. The "Sioux Falls Sports Authority Classic" has a nice ring to it.

As for the Manhattan game, you must admit, it was an exciting game.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

I like where you are going with this. Why not a Summit/Missouri Valley combo? How bout a Saturday event consisting of USD/UNI followed by SDSU/Wichita State in Sioux Falls? You could do a Friday/Saturday combo. The "Sioux Falls Sports Authority Classic" has a nice ring to it.

As for the Manhattan game, you must admit, it was an exciting game.

I've come to peace with the fact that the MVC views the Summit as a glorified DII league. Nobody in that league will even schedule home/home with us, and we beat up half those schools in football every year.

If they were honest with themselves, they are scared to play Summit schools in basketball. It would be really hard to hold their air of superiority after going .500 against Summit schools.

[OldHare]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

It might be that another conference further out like the OVC or Horizon would be a more workable direction for a conference challenge.. Although I see a few MVC teams playing IUPUI or UMKC or UNO. We may need to look more to Drake or Missouri St rather than Witchita St or UNI (or Creighton iin the past.) If the idea of a small tourney in Sioux Falls came to fruition, there could be more interest. The Legends Classic in Frost this year did not draw real well with Howard and Lehigh and Texas Southern playing. One thing is clear is that the department is trying to get action on the home floor for the OOC.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

It might be that another conference further out like the OVC or Horizon would be a more workable direction for a conference challenge.. Although I see a few MVC teams playing IUPUI or UMKC or UNO. We may need to look more to Drake or Missouri St rather than Witchita St or UNI (or Creighton iin the past.) If the idea of a small tourney in Sioux Falls came to fruition, there could be more interest. The Legends Classic in Frost this year did not draw real well with Howard and Lehigh and Texas Southern playing. One thing is clear is that the department is trying to get action on the home floor for the OOC.

If Lehigh still had CJ McCullum and SDSU still had Nate Wolters, that would have been one of the best mid-major games that you could ask for. To bad both of them had to move on the NBA.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

I've come to peace with the fact that the MVC views the Summit as a glorified DII league. Nobody in that league will even schedule home/home with us, and we beat up half those schools in football every year.

If they were honest with themselves, they are scared to play Summit schools in basketball. It would be really hard to hold their air of superiority after going .500 against Summit schools.

I think you could say this about just about any team when it comes to scheduling. It was brutal for the staff to get teams to come to Brookings when we had Nate. They knew how tough we were at home and how good our team was. Losing to South Dakota State isn't something that looks real impressive on the record no matter how good our team is. That is how they think. Nebraska doesn't want anything to do with us. Creighton doesn't either. I can't blame them. Think of it from a Gopher fan's perspective. If SDSU beats the Gophers their fans would be like, "Oh, great. We got beat by South Dakota, we're going to suck this year." Us Jackrabbit fans know we have a quality team but their fans don't.

All the staff can do is to continue to get as good a schedule as possible and continue to win so that we become like a Creighton, Gonzaga, or Wichita State. It can be done but it isn't easy. We have to start winning more games against the Minnesotas of the world to improve our stature.

SUPERBUNNY

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

Oh, and if we have no choice but to schedule DII's, we should grow a pair and play Augie and Northern. There would be more fan interest than facing Wayne State.

See my reply to the post about playing MVC teams. There wouldn't be a lot to gain by playing them. Just imagine if we played Mankato State and they came in and beat us. All we would hear about is Margenthaler this and Margenthaler that. Why would they do that to themselves? Sure, if we played Augie and Northern there would be fan interest from their fans but as a Jacks fan it wouldn't do anything for me. It would be the same as playing Wayne State. Now, I don't like playing lower level teams but you have to finish the schedule somehow.

SUPERBUNNY

[YanktonJack7]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

I've come to peace with the fact that the MVC views the Summit as a glorified DII league. Nobody in that league will even schedule home/home with us, and we beat up half those schools in football every year.

If they were honest with themselves, they are scared to play Summit schools in basketball. It would be really hard to hold their air of superiority after going .500 against Summit schools.

Yep. You are exactly right. I know for next year, SDSU was trying to schedule a home and home with UNI, but they will not come to Frost. SDSU may still go to UNI next year, although that might be off the table now. It's funny because if you look at the sagarin ratings this year, the SL is ranked 14th overall and the MVC is 12th and that's with a 26-0 Wichita State.

A nice idea would be a MVC/SL challenge. It would be similar to the B10/ACC and the SEC/B12 challenge. If the Summit added another team then both leagues would have 10 teams. It'd be another OOC game schools wouldn't have to worry about scheduling and it would develop fan interest, at least in some schools in the SL league. However, this would never happen due to the MVC's superiority complex.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Hypothetical Annual BBall Game

See my reply to the post about playing MVC teams. There wouldn't be a lot to gain by playing them. Just imagine if we played Mankato State and they came in and beat us. All we would hear about is Margenthaler this and Margenthaler that. Why would they do that to themselves? Sure, if we played Augie and Northern there would be fan interest from their fans but as a Jacks fan it wouldn't do anything for me. It would be the same as playing Wayne State. Now, I don't like playing lower level teams but you have to finish the schedule somehow.

SUPERBUNNY

I find it hard to believe that Augie or Northern wouldn't do more for you (or any other SDSU fan) than DSU.

Edit: I guarantee SDSU does more for a lot of Minnesota fans than Cal Poly would. If you have to play someone at a lower level, at least make the matchup interesting.