How to improve the Summit League?

[Jacks15]

I was reading a thread over on Bisonville on this very topic. There has been some good discussion about ways to improve the marquee sport in our conference. With basketball meaning so much to the exposure of any low or mid major conference, how does the Summit League realistically improve the conferences image?
An obvious one would be to spend more money on each program, but we have proven it doesnt just take money to win. What are others thoughts on this topic?

[filbert]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I was reading a thread over on Bisonville on this very topic. There has been some good discussion about ways to improve the marquee sport in our conference. With basketball meaning so much to the exposure of any low or mid major conference, how does the Summit League realistically improve the conferences image?
An obvious one would be to spend more money on each program, but we have proven it doesnt just take money to win. What are others thoughts on this topic?

The schools, from top to bottom, need to schedule more aggressively in the non-conference in men's basketball.

Summit League schools need to schedule, play, and beat, upper-level D-I men's basketball teams in order to for the conference as a whole to improve. If you don't schedule those schools, you can't beat them.

Simple to say, difficult to do, in part because EVERYBODY wants to schedule those upper-level programs.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I have been doing some research that I plan on releasing later on possible expansion. I'd like the Summit to get to 12 teams. I think that would create a little more urgency at the bottom of the conference so they can make the conference tournament. Plus it would help with national TV games, a network might be more open to a few games if there is more teams to chose from.

Ultimately I look at a few things though.

#1 is getting more games on TV, NBCSPORTS, CBSSPORTS, Fox whatever, FSN-North/Midwest/Detroit/etc. getting games on TV that can be viewed outside of the Summit footprint, but also to other areas of the Summit footprint. I'd also like SDSU to step up with getting games on TV and this means football as well. I don't care what the issues are but SDSU-USD/SDSU-NDSU should be on network TV, your first ever home playoff game should be on TV.

#2 I'd go to free internet access to view. I know its money to the schools, but exposure to the average fan I think is worth more then the few $'s they make, also seems as if the same issues they had 5 years ago are still occurring.

#3 Home games need to get some notable mid-majors to come to Frost, didn't Butler come to Frost during transition? They weren't the Butler of today, but I believe they were still ranked. I'm opposed to moving games to Sioux Falls, but if that means a Creighton or Creighton like school would come to South Dakota it might have to be looked at.

#4 Away TV games, when you play a New Mexico, Minnesota, Washington, Nebraska, Alabama, etc. I'd like the games to get on TV. Now I know the Alabama game was on ESPNU which everyone with a decent cable plan gets (my cable plan sucks). and it is the home teams responsibility to get those games on TV, but maybe when the contract is discussed say hey we want this on TV, get it done. The Minnesota game should be either on FSN-North or the Big-10 network every year.

#5 Its tournament success, its nothing that can really be improved so to say, but someone has to win a game or two in the conference to put the conference on the map. The tournament hasn't done any favorites the past couple of years with bad match ups. It just comes down to, just win baby, just win.

And I agree with Filbert with playing notable competition, its difficult but I think it can be done.

[FargoBison]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The Summit needs a scheduling mandate. WIU only played one team with an RPI under 150 in non-conference and they played zero games vs high-majors. I'm not saying every team has to schedule like Oakand but the conference needs to strike some kind of balance.

[NoVaJack]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The schools, from top to bottom, need to schedule more aggressively in the non-conference in men's basketball.

Summit League schools need to schedule, play, and beat, upper-level D-I men's basketball teams in order to for the conference as a whole to improve. If you don't schedule those schools, you can't beat them.

Simple to say, difficult to do, in part because EVERYBODY wants to schedule those upper-level programs.

Problem is with getting home and home games. Tough to win games on the road with opponents you are talking about. What it is going to take is a team making a Butler-like ride through the Big Dance, thus raising the profile of that program and the conference. Really thought the Jacks had a chance to do it this year.

[mr76]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

State has had great success, but if they want to become closer to Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, etc. they need to keep their best players at home. This year's team with Colton Iverson, Cedric Lang, and Cody Larson would have been even better. Add Zach Hanson to the list next year as well. That is how the Summit League (SDSU) will have success. It will not be easy, but we have the players here to get it done, but they all need to stay in state.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

In some ways, scheduling should get easier now that Nate is gone. Teams do not want to come to Frost though.

It was pretty easy to schedule games with Butler, Nevada, etc when we were winning 10 every season. Heck, even UNI did a home/home with us because they saw it as two easy DI wins (no MVC would do this now).

I believe the league put restrictions on DII games, then relaxed them. There should be 1 DII game on the schedule for Summit schools at most (zero ideally). I wonder how things would have played out with Denver in, UMKC out, and eliminate a DII for everybody in the league... Maybe league and individual RPI are high enough where somebody besides tourney champ gets in.

SFSA could put together something during the regular season. SDSU/USD playing 2 well regarded schools (major conference ideally) in a double header. Should be able to generate enough of a payday to entice somebody into the Dakotas, might even generate TV exposure depending on competition and the day the game is played. Throw in a return trip from us the next year. I know people hate Sioux Falls games, but it can be used as leverage to bring in some good teams that won't set foot in Brookings County.

Lastly, somebody needs to figure out something to replace bracketbusters. The Summit will miss that badly from scheduling and rpi standpoints.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

State has had great success, but if they want to become closer to Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, etc. they need to keep their best players at home. This year's team with Colton Iverson, Cedric Lang, and Cody Larson would have been even better. Add Zach Hanson to the list next year as well. That is how the Summit League (SDSU) will have success. It will not be easy, but we have the players here to get it done, but they all need to stay in state.

I think we're getting closer. We won't ever get everybody though. A player like Miller/Iverson/Reiner will choose Florida/Minnesota/Iowa over SDSU 95 times out of 100. JYou still recruit them hoping its one of the 5 times they will stay, but realistically Mike Miller would have done himself a disservice by going to SDSU. (hides under desk)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The Summit needs a scheduling mandate. WIU only played one team with an RPI under 150 in non-conference and they played zero games vs high-majors. I'm not saying every team has to schedule like Oakand but the conference needs to strike some kind of balance.

I don't think you can chase RPI though.

While WIU probably tried to schedule on the soft side, you can't pinpoint how good a team will be next year. To some degree, maybe they just happened to schedule the bottom of other mid-major conferences when they were aiming for the middle. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

I have no idea how you would have a scheduling mandate for a conference to eliminate low RPI DI teams. How would this even work? "Schedule only teams with under 200 RPI" At what point in the season? I don't understand these things enough to know if this is even possible. I'm of the opinion that BCS schools are going to start limiting their mid-major scheduling... the SEC (Pac 12 last year) is not happy with the way their post season is turning out, others won't want it to happen to them.

The DII's kill everybody's RPI. At least I think they do, which is worse for RPI a DI loss or a DII win?

[NoVaJack]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

State has had great success, but if they want to become closer to Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, etc. they need to keep their best players at home. This year's team with Colton Iverson, Cedric Lang, and Cody Larson would have been even better. Add Zach Hanson to the list next year as well. That is how the Summit League (SDSU) will have success. It will not be easy, but we have the players here to get it done, but they all need to stay in state.

Nine of Gonzaga's 13 players are from out of state, and they have players from Poland, German, France and Canada on their roster.

Nine of the 14 on the VCU roster are from out of state, inclulding England, the Bronx, N.Y., and California.

Half of Butler's 14 are out-of-staters, including Florida, Oklahoma and Australia.

It's always good to keep the homestate kids home, but not sure how that in and of itself will make a difference in trying to establish like the other notable mid-majors.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

State has had great success, but if they want to become closer to Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, etc. they need to keep their best players at home. This year's team with Colton Iverson, Cedric Lang, and Cody Larson would have been even better. Add Zach Hanson to the list next year as well. That is how the Summit League (SDSU) will have success. It will not be easy, but we have the players here to get it done, but they all need to stay in state.

We've had that argument a 1000X on here before. The thread is not how does SDSU become Gonzaga its how does The Summit League improve. Guys go elsewhere for numerous reasons, more guys are staying at SDSU or seriously considering it then they did 5 years ago that is a start. Would it be nice to get 1 or 2 of them? no doubt, but I'm sick and tired of having the argument that is the only reason to get great. Its not. And the names you mentioned haven't done a ton in their careers. Larson has played slightly more minutes then I have the past 3 seasons. Iverson stuggled at Minnesota, seems to have really improved at Colorado St. but remember that SDSU was blocked on that transfer so its hard to compare. And Cedric Lang was a 5 point 5 rebound guy on a very average UTEP team this year.

As for scheduling D-II or NAIA games, the reason it occurs is because of scheduling. Its much cheaper to give DSU or SMSU a few dollars then it is to either go on the road those extra games, or pay big money to get a bad D-I team to come to Frost. That is why I think gaining a few conference teams would help. Get to 20 conference games instead of 16 and its 2 less home games you have to go out and find.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I don't think you can chase RPI though.

While WIU probably tried to schedule on the soft side, you can't pinpoint how good a team will be next year. To some degree, maybe they just happened to schedule the bottom of other mid-major conferences when they were aiming for the middle. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

I have no idea how you would have a scheduling mandate for a conference to eliminate low RPI DI teams. How would this even work? "Schedule only teams with under 200 RPI" At what point in the season? I don't understand these things enough to know if this is even possible. I'm of the opinion that BCS schools are going to start limiting their mid-major scheduling... the SEC (Pac 12 last year) is not happy with the way their post season is turning out, others won't want it to happen to them.

The DII's kill everybody's RPI. At least I think they do, which is worse for RPI a DI loss or a DII win?

I don't think D-II's count, at all either way, at least that is how I understand it, it just figures D-I matchups. So yes a D-I loss would count worse. I think the D-II's are scheduled just to get a game early where you can utilize the bench, get a home game and work some things out.

I do agree with scheduling though, its hard to mandate scheduling. 1 thing would be saying you have to play 1 non-conference tournament team from the prior year. Its been discussed but I'd like some type of conference challenge. Whether it be one of the conferences in the South the Ohio Valley, Horizon or Big Sky, something where you would get a mid-major game set up by the conference. Something where the top teams play the top teams, bottom the bottom but work it out so you would play a home game one year, away game the next year.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

As for scheduling D-II or NAIA games, the reason it occurs is because of scheduling. Its much cheaper to give DSU or SMSU a few dollars then it is to either go on the road those extra games, or pay big money to get a bad D-I team to come to Frost. That is why I think gaining a few conference teams would help. Get to 20 conference games instead of 16 and its 2 less home games you have to go out and find.

You can't have it both ways - schedule better and schedule cheaper. If you want a good schedule you are going to have to go on the road some.

I like the idea of a larger conference from a scheduling standpoint, but schools will need to be a little selective about who they are scheduling out of conference then too. SDSU for example couldn't schedule 2 against UND and CSUB every year.

It is unrealistic to expect majors to come to Frost Arena. They never have, and likely never will (unless you count Butler, although they weren't major at the time). I wonder if Alabama would have considered a home/Sioux Falls deal, and if they would have how many people would complain about it.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I don't think D-II's count, at all either way, at least that is how I understand it, it just figures D-I matchups. So yes a D-I loss would count worse. I think the D-II's are scheduled just to get a game early where you can utilize the bench, get a home game and work some things out.

I do agree with scheduling though, its hard to mandate scheduling. 1 thing would be saying you have to play 1 non-conference tournament team from the prior year. Its been discussed but I'd like some type of conference challenge. Whether it be one of the conferences in the South the Ohio Valley, Horizon or Big Sky, something where you would get a mid-major game set up by the conference. Something where the top teams play the top teams, bottom the bottom but work it out so you would play a home game one year, away game the next year.

I know DII's don't count one way or the other, but which is better from an RPI standpoint? Would a loss to Indiana be better than playing Augustana? Where is the breaking point?

I happen to be of the opinion that if we are going to schedule DII's, we might as well schedule Augustana and Northern and at least sell some tickets. DSU is a joke.

Any statisticians in the house?

[filbert]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The bottom of the Summit League has to improve. Period. Right now that's IUPUI, Omaha, IPFW, and South Dakota.

League took a big step in that respect by replacing hapless UMKC with Denver (or, put another way, UMKC did the Summit League's RPI a favor by leaving).

The target RPI for the bottom team in the Summit League should be #250.

The top of the league is **almost** there, IMHO. What might push the Summit into some discussions of having an outside chance at being a two-bid league, are:
1) some marginal improvement in NDSU, SDSU, and Oakland (I think you can fairly say those are currently the top 3 men's basketball programs in the league),
2) WIU staying in that top group (if they stay up in the top half next year after the departure of Clark and Parks, I'll be a believer), and
3) A couple, at least, of the current bottom-half of the league making strides too to improve their consistent competitiveness in and out of the conference.

This will of course require SDSU to replace Wolters and Fiegen, and I suppose an objective observer would therefore have the same reservations about SDSU that I have about Western. But what can I say? I'm not totally objective.