How to improve the Summit League?

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

You can't have it both ways - schedule better and schedule cheaper. If you want a good schedule you are going to have to go on the road some.

I like the idea of a larger conference from a scheduling standpoint, but schools will need to be a little selective about who they are scheduling out of conference then too. SDSU for example couldn't schedule 2 against UND and CSUB every year.

It is unrealistic to expect majors to come to Frost Arena. They never have, and likely never will (unless you count Butler, although they weren't major at the time). I wonder if Alabama would have considered a home/Sioux Falls deal, and if they would have how many people would complain about it.

I agree, and scheduling needs to improve, but the resources need to improve as well. It cost money to bring a decent mid-major to Frost, and playing a ton of road games doesn't make anyone happy. When you have those D-II/NAIA options available for cheap they become really attractive, especially when allowed. Conference needs to limit them to 1 a year. But again I do understand why they occur.

My ideal scheduling would include something on the lines of 3 big name schools (New Mexico, Iowa State, Iowa, Minnesota, Alabama, Washington, etc.) 1 low major/high mid-major (Creighton, Wichita St. Wyoming, Colorado St., Northern Iowa, etc.) I would like a California or West Coast road trip. Something where we go out there at play 2-3 road games. Ideally one of the high major's and then 1 or 2 lower mid-major. I'd like this first for recruiting purposes, both for basketball and other sports. As well as something for alumni and people with South Dakota ties.

Home games, I'd like to get 1 recognizable non-conference opponent a year. It might cost money, but I think its needed. NDSU has gotten Kansas St and Colorado St. to come to the BSA, SDSU could try to get a Northern Iowa to return, Creighton, Wichita St. etc. It would cost and would be hard but needs to be looked at.

Ultimately scheduling is an issue for all Summit League teams, but for SDSU it shouldn't be as big of deal, they draw well, they should be able to afford to buy a decent home game a year.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The bottom of the Summit League has to improve. Period. Right now that's IUPUI, Omaha, IPFW, and South Dakota.

League took a big step in that respect by replacing hapless UMKC with Denver (or, put another way, UMKC did the Summit League's RPI a favor by leaving).

The target RPI for the bottom team in the Summit League should be #250.

The top of the league is **almost** there, IMHO. What might push the Summit into some discussions of having an outside chance at being a two-bid league, are:
1) some marginal improvement in NDSU, SDSU, and Oakland (I think you can fairly say those are currently the top 3 men's basketball programs in the league),
2) WIU staying in that top group (if they stay up in the top half next year after the departure of Clark and Parks, I'll be a believer), and
3) A couple, at least, of the current bottom-half of the league making strides too to improve their consistent competitiveness in and out of the conference.

This will of course require SDSU to replace Wolters and Fiegen, and I suppose an objective observer would therefore have the same reservations about SDSU that I have about Western. But what can I say? I'm not totally objective.

I think facilities wise the conference should take a large step in the next 5 years. If Omaha and USD get their arena's constructed, and with Denver replacing UMKC that changes 2 pathetic facilities (USD and UMKC) with 2 really nice facilities and Omaha will go from being in a suburb to being on campus.

[TK22867]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The bottom of the Summit League has to improve. Period. Right now that's IUPUI, Omaha, IPFW, and South Dakota.

Are you willing to sacrifice potential trips to the NCAA Tournament for SDSU in favor of a stronger conference? Or are you making the assumption that by creating a stronger conference we will have a better chance at an at-large bid?

I see it as a double-edged sword.

[NWHSUandSDSU]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

[QUOTE=SF_Rabbit_Fan. I believe the league put restrictions on DII games, then relaxed them. There should be 1 DII game on the schedule for Summit schools at most (zero ideally)."



I was listening to Van Pelt today and learned that playing division II teams does not adversely affect RPI but playing Division I opponent with bad RPI does.

[mr76]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The Summit League gets better by getting better players and if you don't think any of those three players would have made us better than you don't know very much about the game. You can post all you want, but your knowledge base is limited. Larson, Iverson, and Lang make us better and we have a better chance of winning. I believe that is what we are trying to do.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I think it is very important to have like-minded schools whether it be public vs. private, or football vs. non-football. If you look at the MVC, they are at a crossroads because half of the schools will be frustrated with who they get as a replacement. Once all the schools are on the same page you can determine what your mission is athletically. As much as I disliked ORU you need a school like them to raise the bar for all the rest. They made all of us recruit harder to keep up. If we lose Oakland that will be a problem, because right now they are that school. RPI's have to go up. Not sure how to make that happen, but that needs to be a mission of all schools to put together a schedule that makes not only your team stronger but helps the conference also. I think our commissioner needs to be aggressive enough to reach out to multiple conferences to create a conference challenge or mini-bracket buster. No we won't get an A-10 or MVC to play us but maybe an OVC, Horizon or Southland could help our top school with their RPI.

[filbert]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

Are you willing to sacrifice potential trips to the NCAA Tournament for SDSU in favor of a stronger conference? Or are you making the assumption that by creating a stronger conference we will have a better chance at an at-large bid?

I see it as a double-edged sword.

Please refer to the thread title.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I agree, and scheduling needs to improve, but the resources need to improve as well. It cost money to bring a decent mid-major to Frost, and playing a ton of road games doesn't make anyone happy. When you have those D-II/NAIA options available for cheap they become really attractive, especially when allowed. Conference needs to limit them to 1 a year. But again I do understand why they occur.

My ideal scheduling would include something on the lines of 3 big name schools (New Mexico, Iowa State, Iowa, Minnesota, Alabama, Washington, etc.) 1 low major/high mid-major (Creighton, Wichita St. Wyoming, Colorado St., Northern Iowa, etc.) I would like a California or West Coast road trip. Something where we go out there at play 2-3 road games. Ideally one of the high major's and then 1 or 2 lower mid-major. I'd like this first for recruiting purposes, both for basketball and other sports. As well as something for alumni and people with South Dakota ties.

Home games, I'd like to get 1 recognizable non-conference opponent a year. It might cost money, but I think its needed. NDSU has gotten Kansas St and Colorado St. to come to the BSA, SDSU could try to get a Northern Iowa to return, Creighton, Wichita St. etc. It would cost and would be hard but needs to be looked at.

Ultimately scheduling is an issue for all Summit League teams, but for SDSU it shouldn't be as big of deal, they draw well, they should be able to afford to buy a decent home game a year.

How would it cost money to bring a decent mid-major to Frost on a home/home deal? Aren't those travel costs only? I don't know how these things work.

I really like the idea of the sports authority putting together a USD/SDSU double header with some recognizable schools. I think there is serious potential there, especially once the new events center is built. Has to be somebody recognizable though, CSUB and Manhattan aren't going to cut it. Bring in a team like UNLV/VCU/St Marys/St. Louis/Akron/Albany so casual fans are buying tickets too. Heck, you might even pull in a Memphis/Gonzaga/Cincinnati once in awhile. I could see BIG crowds for that kind of action. SDSU doesn't sacrifice a home game because high mid-majors and majors aren't coming to Brookings anyway.

[Southeast]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

I think facilities wise the conference should take a large step in the next 5 years. If Omaha and USD get their arena's constructed, and with Denver replacing UMKC that changes 2 pathetic facilities (USD and UMKC) with 2 really nice facilities and Omaha will go from being in a suburb to being on campus.

Add a MUCH better tournament venue in Sioux Falls to your list, as well as an upgraded Frost Arena and Bison Sports Arena. All of those should happen in the next five years and will have a positive impact.

Trading Denver for KC is a big upgrade. Hopefully Denver can do a little better job of taking advantage of their metro location than KC did.

It's a chicken-or-egg situation, but engaging and growing the fan base of many Summit teams is important in terms of revenue and publicity. SDSU leading the league in attendence at just over 3,500 fans per game is not going to cut it if you want this conference to move up much. Denver seems like a great addition in this regard (they averaged 5,460 in 2012). Teams like USD and NDSU need to get moving on this. I'm not sure if it is possible with IPFW and IUPUI. Better local fans would lead to the conference tournament possibly becoming a much bigger event (similar to "Arch Maddness"), and raising league profile.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

A win over a D-II doesn't help you on selection Sunday nor does it help you when you match up against Michigan on day one. It only helps you when you try to argue with your friend at a bar that your team is better than theirs.

[filbert]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

One quick way to increase your basketball budget is to schedule more guarantee games at the "big boys." This also has the beneficial results of boosting your RPI just by showing up, and actually giving you a chance to beat one of the "big boys."

Downside is that, especially for schools like SDSU with a recent history of consistently, about once a year or so, going into a major conference school's home arena and winning the game, these games get much harder to find than if you're one of the bottom conference teams. (2012-13: New Mexico; 2011-12: Washington; 2010-11: Iowa; 2008-09: Iowa State)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

Get UND and Northern Colorado. The Summit now has 6 football schools.

If the Missouri Valley football scholls don't lobby for conference mergers, we take our playoff football teams and leave the MVFC PRAYING Youngstown doesn't move.

The new Summit League (they keep our name since Missouri Valley doesn't make sense anymore) has 19 basketball schools and sends 4-6 teams to the NCAA every year. At least 4 teams get into the FCS playoffs every year.

Problem solved.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

The Summit League gets better by getting better players and if you don't think any of those three players would have made us better than you don't know very much about the game. You can post all you want, but your knowledge base is limited. Larson, Iverson, and Lang make us better and we have a better chance of winning. I believe that is what we are trying to do.

Every school can go back and say how did we let that guy go? Why didn't we get him? Why did Notre Dame let Tyler Zeller go to North Carolina after they had his brother? Why did UNC let Cody go to Indiana after they had his brother? Why didn't Indiana get Luke and Tyler when they grew up in the state and their Uncle played for them? Why didn't Roy Williams recruit Doug McDermit when they were recruiting teammate Harrison Barnes? Why did Duke let Jason Capel go to North Carolina after his brother Jeff played for them? Why did North Carolina's women's program let Jon Henson's sister go to Duke? You act as if SDSU is the only school to let a few go, let a few slip away.

I can go on and on and on and on. How did Minnesota let Nate Wolters go? not even recruit him, not even offer him a walk-on. How did they let that kid go to Harvard? How does Iowa and Iowa St. allow Roy Williams to come into the state every other year and get their top recruit? How does Illinois schools allow Coach K to own the Chicago metro-area? At least for SDSU in most situations they are going to far superior programs.

I think too many people also think its just the kids choice, and that Nagy and staff isn't convincing the kid. Many times its coaches (both hs and club), parents, friends and family. If you had a son who had an offer from SDSU and Florida and everything was the same, tell me you are going to tell him to go to SDSU? Tell me his friends are going to tell him to go to SDSU? tell me his coaches are going to tell him to go to SDSU? Now there may be times where you just feel its a better fit and there is more to the story. but 9 out of 10 times its going to be go to Florida. I think a big place to look at is the summer club coaches, now its my understanding that SDSU has a good reputation and relationship with the area coaches, but the reason the Schoolers become the Schoolers is because they get guys to Florida, Minnesota, Iowa, etc. I guess my point is its easy for a fan to say you should have went to SDSU, but I think if you had any skin in the matter it would be different. Florida has had how many lottery picks in the past 10 years? SDSU has had how many draft picks?

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

How would it cost money to bring a decent mid-major to Frost on a home/home deal? Aren't those travel costs only? I don't know how these things work.

I really like the idea of the sports authority putting together a USD/SDSU double header with some recognizable schools. I think there is serious potential there, especially once the new events center is built. Has to be somebody recognizable though, CSUB and Manhattan aren't going to cut it. Bring in a team like UNLV/VCU/St Marys/St. Louis/Akron/Albany so casual fans are buying tickets too. Heck, you might even pull in a Memphis/Gonzaga/Cincinnati once in awhile. I could see BIG crowds for that kind of action. SDSU doesn't sacrifice a home game because high mid-majors and majors aren't coming to Brookings anyway.

I think home and homes are harder to get, more teams would rather spend a little money and just get a home game. It is also my understanding that for some schools it can take as many as 4-5-6 years to repay that home game. Because its not easy to get matching days. I think the reason the D-II and NAIA schools are being scheduled is because the alternatives aren't great, its not a home and home against Albany, its an away game on a Wednesday night, or forking over big money to get Albany to come to Frost.

Does anyone know if Montana or Belmont are scheduled to return to Frost?

The one funny thing is, I swear we had an argument 3-4 years ago on here about why we weren't scheduling are full allotment of non D-I games.

[joeboo22]

Re: How to improve the Summit League?

Get UND and Northern Colorado. The Summit now has 6 football schools.

If the Missouri Valley football scholls don't lobby for conference mergers, we take our playoff football teams and leave the MVFC PRAYING Youngstown doesn't move.

The new Summit League (they keep our name since Missouri Valley doesn't make sense anymore) has 19 basketball schools and sends 4-6 teams to the NCAA every year. At least 4 teams get into the FCS playoffs every year.

Problem solved.

The leagues won't merge basketball leagues.

I'm more just telling the MVFC to let UND and UNC join.