Frost gets upgrade

[filbert]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

It's more than that though. My main problem with the upgrade is all 4 sides of the court don't have seats on the floor. A basketball court is meant to have the fans seemingly on top of the court. Not having some huge press area on the sideline and moving the seats even further back. I think that's why I love NBA games, heck even the upper deck looks like they are right on top of the floor.

As far as the student section goes, not having them on the floor is actually really funny just because that just doesn't look right. Heck even when I was at USD game and their godawful arena where their basketball court is a basketball court set in the middle of a warehouse had students and other fans right on the court. I do applaud them for using risers though. That is my main issue and why I am not impressed with the upgrade, because basketball games were meant to have the fans be right on top of the players like Cameron indoor, or the gophers stadium. Final thoughts, if SDSU wants to move the seats off the floor they might as well go all the way and copy Memorial Gymnasium at Vandy University.

It looks to me like what they're trying to do with Frost is turn it into a mini-Allen Fieldhouse at Kansas. There, the students are in bleachers at the ends which are elevated very similarly to what's in Frost. Personally, I'm not a big fan of moving all of the students to the ends, but revenue is king, and the revenue from paying season ticket holders is a lot bigger than the students' activity fee. I do hope they draw the line at keeping students--some of them, anyway, in the lower bowl area.

When you're dealing with a 40 year old building, your options do get limited a bit. I would like to see an overall grand master plan for seating in Frost Arena, if such a thing exists.

And, at both Minnesota and Vanderbilt-- if I'm not mistaken -- the floor is elevated so that instead of the fans being on top of the players, it's rather the reverse.

[slosho]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Personally, I'm not a big fan of moving all of the students to the ends, but revenue is king, and the revenue from paying season ticket holders is a lot bigger than the students' activity fee.

Please provide proof of this... as I feel you are likely very incorrect. When I was on Students Association the percent of the athletic budget was (from my recollection witch may be completely incorrect) roughly 25% of all income. and I would believe Basketball Season Tix are are only a fraction of total ticket revenue.

I'm actually very interested in these #'s maybe I'll look into it.

Edit: FY2011: South Dakota State: $11,853,538 expenses; $981,423 gate. the huge discrepancy here would lean toward the point that Student fees are a MAJOR component of the overall budget and that they subsidize our entertainment. More to come. I think that elPresidente and I had a discussion about this early in the thread. I'll have to check back later,,, time for bed.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Please provide proof of this... as I feel you are likely very incorrect. When I was on Students Association the percent of the athletic budget was (from my recollection witch may be completely incorrect) roughly 25% of all income. and I would believe Basketball Season Tix are are only a fraction of total ticket revenue.

I'm actually very interested in these #'s maybe I'll look into it.

Well the amount money that comes from the students isn't going to change no matter where you seat them. You can add revenue by moving the students and selling more season tickets.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Gotta agree with witness and others. Its takes away from the atmosphere when its further away. Most people don't like tracks around football fields. Its the same way to me here. Putting more room and press bewtween the fans and the court is the wrong way we should be going. Plus when the seats are so elevated it creates horrible sight lines for the top sections. The D2 days with the old wood bleachers that went to the floor with the hanging baskets was and will be the best set up frost has had. When 8000 people could pack in there and were from floor to ceiling that was something special.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Well the amount money that comes from the students isn't going to change no matter where you seat them. You can add revenue by moving the students and selling more season tickets.

Wrong. If the school grows say 1000 students in the next 5 years. They are adding more revenue still. And it only helps if it actually increases ticket sales or adds more seating. So I guess most fans don't care if students show up anyway. And least the athletic budget gets their money regardless if they are at the games.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Please provide proof of this... as I feel you are likely very incorrect. When I was on Students Association the percent of the athletic budget was (from my recollection witch may be completely incorrect) roughly 25% of all income. and I would believe Basketball Season Tix are are only a fraction of total ticket revenue.

I'm actually very interested in these #'s maybe I'll look into it.

Edit: FY2011: South Dakota State: $11,853,538 expenses; $981,423 gate. the huge discrepancy here would lean toward the point that Student fees are a MAJOR component of the overall budget and that they subsidize our entertainment. More to come. I think that elPresidente and I had a discussion about this early in the thread. I'll have to check back later,,, time for bed.

Sweet dreams.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Wrong. If the school grows say 1000 students in the next 5 years. They are adding more revenue still. And it only helps if it actually increases ticket sales or adds more seating. So I guess most fans don't care if students show up anyway. And least the athletic budget gets their money regardless if they are at the games.

Wrong? Where did I say that adding new students wouldn't add anything to the revenue? Read what I wrote again.

[slosho]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Well the amount money that comes from the students isn't going to change no matter where you seat them. You can add revenue by moving the students and selling more season tickets.

EXACTLY, I think the SA should resolve to Withhold all funding until the students are treated like the large donors that they are.

I say why not live free of the money that students are required to spend and have no voice over. and charge those who really want to ATTEND to do so. I'm guessing that the Athletic Dept. would not exist in the current form.
This bothered me when I was @ sdsu and Always will. the best part for the ath. Dept is in 4 years no students will know how it "was". They will simply just accept how it is as the only option.

I feel that is analogous to the taxation situation that lead to the founding of this country. Like it or not... they take your money, and control what you get in return with little to no recourse. How much less would your student loans be? How much less would mine be?

That being said, I'm a big fan of the sports programs, and I donate what I can to try and help the situation.

[joeboo22]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Great we are back into the students vs. alums. I've been many basketball games, both as a student, alum, and general fan. And I'm the type of guy that as long as the student section doesn't directly effect a large portion of the general body, I love a vibrant, loud, supportive student body and expect most people would like as well. I remember numerous people on here complaining that no students were showing up. I don't think putting them in a terrible spot is the answer. If in 5 years there is a need for more season tickets will they move the students to the upper deck? Eliminate 1 side? I understand where the school is coming from, I understand their need for as much season tickets and therefore donors as possible, but I don't know if alienating future donors is the best option.

[goon]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Great we are back into the students vs. alums. I've been many basketball games, both as a student, alum, and general fan. And I'm the type of guy that as long as the student section doesn't directly effect a large portion of the general body, I love a vibrant, loud, supportive student body and expect most people would like as well. I remember numerous people on here complaining that no students were showing up. I don't think putting them in a terrible spot is the answer. If in 5 years there is a need for more season tickets will they move the students to the upper deck? Eliminate 1 side? I understand where the school is coming from, I understand their need for as much season tickets and therefore donors as possible, but I don't know if alienating future donors is the best option.

Well said. Giving students good seats now is a nessicary evil. The laws of unintended consequence. If students don't fully enjoy or feel like they have good options to go to sporting events might turn them off from being future fans. I think creating a culture of getting students to games should be a huge prioriety due to the future revenue it could help create. But that's just me.

[LakeJack]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I blame the Board of Regents for bad policy back in 2001-2003. They wanted to punish SDSU for going Division I and they put all of the locks in place on student fees for athletics to try and stop/limit SDSU at the Division I level. Those policies have since been repealed but with the exception of a legally needed Title IX fee the amount of GAF to athletics hasn't changed. Look at it this way, students are paying the same amount of money to watch Nate Wolters and and NCAA tournament team as they used to pay to watch SDSU play Northern and Morningside and Augie.

The SDSU Athletic Department has increased ticket sales, increased corporate sponsorships, increased donations and increased the quality of the product people are paying to watch. Students have benefited by getting all of this improvement for the same price. A few years ago we had Butler in Frost Arena which I would argue is an upgrade from Augie. Do you want to keep the courtside seats? Then increase the GAF Fee by $1 and generate $275,000. Think of it as an increase in the ticket price for those seats.

SDSU has the second lowest GAF Fee in the state at $26.60 (the $1.00 for the Union Expansion is in that number and starts fall of 2012). USD has a GAF of $36.60. If SDSU was allowed by the Regents to charge the same GAF fee as USD they could do $30+ million worth of projects and make payments on $30 million in bond payments. Do you know of any students that go to SDSU over USD because of the extra $10 a credit fee? GAF fees are on page 10 here: http://www.sdbor.edu/theboard/agenda...cuments/31.pdf

SDSU also gets the short end on the amount of base funding levels per full time student. (See the thread here: http://sdsufans.com/board/showthread...Regents-System). They give USD $1,300 more per student in base state tax dollars than they give SDSU and they let USD Charge $10 more in GAF than SDSU (think $30 million in lost potential projects). That is a total of $1600 more per student to help USD keep up with SDSU. Anyone want to know the sum total? $1600 times 12,725 SDSU students is $20 million a year in cash. How many budget cuts, lost professors, and cut programs does that cover?

So, in summary and to get back on topic of the thread- if SDSU was treated equally by the state and regents the students could keep their seats. Unfortunately, it is going to take a lot of angry parents asking their local legislators why their students don't receive as much in state support as other school to make that happen.

Here you go

[witness]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Well said. Giving students good seats now is a nessicary evil. The laws of unintended consequence. If students don't fully enjoy or feel like they have good options to go to sporting events might turn them off from being future fans. I think creating a culture of getting students to games should be a huge prioriety due to the future revenue it could help create. But that's just me.

Every student on average pays 810 dollars a year just for athletics alone. Also I remember when Alumni were complaining about not standing. Kind of ironic now. Also, athletic success can make an 18 decide between 2 colleges that they both like. So, you are correct creating a great student environment is key. Also, students that don't even go to sports nor care even have to pay no matter what whereas fans don't have to pay if they don't want to go to the games.

My dad always told me about the games in the mid 70s at the barn and how crazy they were. Having fans on top of the players is what makes basketball great live. Not having seats even further back.

[Nidaros]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Every student on average pays 810 dollars a year just for athletics alone. Also I remember when Alumni were complaining about not standing. Kind of ironic now. Also, athletic success can make an 18 decide between 2 colleges that they both like. So, you are correct creating a great student environment is key. Also, students that don't even go to sports nor care even have to pay no matter what whereas fans don't have to pay if they don't want to go to the games.

My dad always told me about the games in the mid 70s at the barn and how crazy they were. Having fans on top of the players is what makes basketball great live. Not having seats even further back.

I doubt very much that 810 bucks is paid by each student for athletics. A season ticket for the old folks like me cost much less, such as football and basket ball is 500 bucks. One hundred fifteen for football and a bb ticket is 400 bucks. The rest of the activies fees go to such things as plays and lectures etc, so your statement is incorrect. There all sorts of groups that get a slice of activities fees such as the Rodeo club. I had to pay about 15 bucks to see the rodeo. You as student got in free pass with your ID. There are a ton of plays that I paid admission for back when I was a student and never took the time to see. I think that is my fault.

[witness]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

I doubt very much that 810 bucks is paid by each student for athletics. A season ticket for the old folks like me cost much less, such as football and basket ball is 500 bucks. One hundred fifteen for football and a bb ticket is 400 bucks. The rest of the activies fees go to such things as plays and lectures etc, so your statement is incorrect. There all sorts of groups that get a slice of activities fees such as the Rodeo club. I had to pay about 15 bucks to see the rodeo. You as student got in free pass with your ID. There are a ton of plays that I paid admission for back when I was a student and never took the time to see. I think that is my fault.

Combine football and basketball season tickets and they are less than activity fee. That was my main point. Students are paying for sports that we don't even go to or follow. So no my statement is not incorrect. The activity fee is what keeps the sports running. This student vs alumni debate is like comparing apples and oranges and saying that the students need to pay more for the athletics fee is funny to me. Why not raise the season ticket prices or single game prices. I just laughed that I remembered when alumni were complaining about students not going to games or not standing and now it's just becoming ironic and funny. Make me pay for just season tickets for football and basketball and I'll gladly say okay I agree but we aren't.

[Nidaros]

Re: Frost gets upgrade

Combine football and basketball season tickets and they are less than activity fee. That was my main point. Students are paying for sports that we don't even go to or follow. So no my statement is not incorrect. The activity fee is what keeps the sports running. This student vs alumni debate is like comparing apples and oranges and saying that the students need to pay more for the athletics fee is funny to me. Why not raise the season ticket prices or single game prices. I just laughed that I remembered when alumni were complaining about students not going to games or not standing and now it's just becoming ironic and funny. Make me pay for just season tickets for football and basketball and I'll gladly say okay I agree but we aren't.

Are plays and lectures classified as sports?