2005 Recruits

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2005 Recruits

This is really disturbing. I had said this before that I thought Sioux Falls and specifically Roosevelt had some DI talent. Their is not enough of these kind of big time players around the region and we need to own them. What is it? Facilties,Majors offered,kids simply wanting to get a little distance away from home or most troubling are we getting outhustled by NDSU. I realize NDSU has many more scholarships they are offering and maybe this is part of it, but they seem to be all over every legitimate recruit in the midwest.

[NDSU_grad]

Re: 2005 Recruits

If you don't mind an NDSU fan chiming in, I think scolarships have to play a big role. I think right now we can offer alot of these kids full rides. If I'm not mistaken you guys are at 38 right now and will be at 42 next year; probably not a lot of full rides for incoming freshmen.
I think facilities probably plays a minor role, but of course I don't know for sure.

[SDsportsFan]

Re: 2005 Recruits

I think geopgraphy does play a role.  When Arlin Likness (Yankton's head coach) was at Hamlin, many of his players went on to play at SDSU.  Mark Tetzlaff, Jeff Thue, Dave Lieseth, Mark Stevenson, just to name a few.  Don't see why that would change except for the proximity to Vermillion.  Too bad Likness doesn't have a contact at state.  As for USD, not a factor, unless a kid wants to underachieve.

You might have made that last comment as a joke to get in a shot at USD, in which case disregard what I have to say here. I don't think by a kid choosing a DII school when he has D-I talent necessarily means he wants to underachieve. A lot of those decisions are made based on a kids major or wanting to play close to home. We've gotten a lot of players over the years that had D-I talent and I don't view them as underachievers for choosing a D-I school. Chances are you were just making a joke, in which case I can respect that and I'm sorry for even replying to it.
I used to hate losing recruits to USD, however it won't bother me near as much anymore as it used to. If a kid wants to play close to home and compete for a national championship (albeit at the DII level) I will be able to understand that. Whats really going to bother me is losing in state recruits to NDSU. That should not happen.

[89rabbit]

Re: 2005 Recruits

If a kid wants to play close to home and compete for a national championship (albeit at the DII level) I will be able to understand that.

National Championship  ???  If that is what he wants USD is the wrong place to look for it.  They have only won 2 in their entire history (Men's Basketball 1958, Men's Cross Country 1997).  Looks like they win one about every 40 years give or take.  They won't be due for another until 2037 or so.  

Besides that any kid that signs with us now will have a chance at the I-AA championships.  We will be playoff eligible in 2008, his Sr. year (his Jr. and Sr. year if he red shirts).

Go State!  ;D

P.S. SDSU has 8, last one was in 2003 (6 Men's and 2 Women's).

[SDsportsFan]

Re: 2005 Recruits

National Championship  ???  If that is what he wants USD is the wrong place to look for it.  They have only won 2 in their entire history (Men's Basketball 1958, Men's Cross Country 1997).  Looks like they win one about every 40 years give or take.  They won't be due for another until 2037 or so.  

Besides that any kid that signs with us now will have a chance at the I-AA championships.  We will be playoff eligible in 2008, his Sr. year (his Jr. and Sr. year if he red shirts).

Go State!  ;D

Thats true, USD hasn't been in the national championship for football since 1985. I just think that some high school kids might think they'll have a better chance of possibly winning a national championship at USD than they will have at SDSU. I'm not saying they would have a better chance, I just think that some kids might think they would. For a while it might be difficult to convince them otherwise since it's been quite a while since we've been in the title hunt at DII. They might think if thats the case then it will be a long time before they are in the hunt in D-IAA. Hopefully I'm wrong in thinking that. Maybe kids don't care about that at all.

[89rabbit]

Re: 2005 Recruits

Maybe some potential D-I athletes feel that way.  If they would rather play below their abilites just to possibly win a championship then I don't want them here anyway.  I want kids that want to be all they can be.  I want lifelong champions.  My guess is most potential D-I athletes do not feel that way.  Here is a story the Minneapolis StarTrib ran:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5106835.html

Standing still would have been the comfortable option. The athletic departments, after all, were far from broken at North Dakota State and South Dakota State.

The schools had been part of the North Central Conference since its inception in 1922. Both were regulars in the NCAA Division II playoffs and won multiple national titles. NDSU led Division II in football attendance in 2003, while SDSU did the same in men's basketball in 2003-04.

That, however, is in the past.

This fall, the schools left the NCC and Division II to become independents, taking their first steps toward full Division I status, the NCAA's highest level of competition. They were the final two land grant institutions in the contiguous 48 states to go Division I.  .  .  .

The benefits

If you watched carefully on Saturdays this fall, you might have seen an NDSU or SDSU football score scroll across the bottom of your television screen, an event reserved only for playoff games in Division II. The same will be the case with basketball scores this winter. At the national level, a very clear differentiation exists between the divisions. The D-I label attracts more attention from alumni, the media and potential recruits.

"We tried to carry the flag for Division II," said North Dakota State women's basketball coach Amy Ruley, who led the Bison to five national titles in the 1990s. "But you could win a national title in D-II and hardly anyone knew. Philosophically, we fit better in D-I."

That belief is shared by NDSU President Joseph Chapman, who since his arrival five years ago has tried to eliminate the idea that NDSU is just a nice little school. Chapman has challenged every department on campus to look for ways to improve, and to him the Division I move is philosophically similar to the addition of 22 doctoral programs and the opening of the Research and Technology Park adjacent to campus.

"We're a totally different university than we were five years ago," Chapman said. "The athletic department is a window on the institution nationally."

South Dakota State athletic director Fred Oien said: "Whether you like it or not, there's a perceived difference between Division II and Division I. There's something in the event that changes something in the donor's or ticket buyer's mind."

South Dakota State President Dr. Peggy Miller would have preferred that the NCC schools move as a group to Division I, making the transition easier for everyone. When that didn't happen, SDSU joined NDSU and Northern Colorado as former NCC schools moving up a class.

"I like the idea of growth and doing it in a thoughtful way," said Miller, who came to SDSU from Division I Akron.

Even coaches who figure to take their lumps short term favor the move. SDSU men's basketball coach Scott Nagy built his program into a Division II power, averaging 23.3 victories in nine seasons. This year's schedule, including games at Butler, Marquette, Illinois-Chicago and Colorado, is much more arduous than previous seasons.

But Nagy is excited about the future, saying his school already is recruiting players it had no chance of landing in Division II. The best example: Nagy recruited one Minnesotan in his first nine seasons at SDSU, but he has two who are freshmen this season and has already signed two for next season.

"We're already getting kids we never got before," Nagy said. "Obviously, there's going to be some tough things we have to go through. But I think it's a good move for the university."

Go State!  ;D

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2005 Recruits

I know deciding on where to go to school is a personal decision whether you are a student or student athlete. Do any of the former players who are on this board have any personal insight on why we might be losing recruites to NDSU and yet the reverse rarely happens. I know there are some obvious reasons but is this current coaching staff connecting with potential players.

[SDsportsFan]

Re: 2005 Recruits

Maybe some potential D-I athletes feel that way.  If they would rather play below their abilites just to possibly win a championship then I don't want them here anyway.  I want kids that want to be all they can be.  I want lifelong champions.  My guess is most potential D-I athletes do not feel that way.  D

I don't know about this Rabbit. Do you think because guys like Matt Jones who had D-I talent chose to play for us a DII school at the time that they were choosing to play below their abilities and won't be lifelong champions. We've had numerous athletes that have come to our school that have had D-I talent and I didn't view any of them as underachievers for doing so.

[89rabbit]

Re: 2005 Recruits

If the only reason that Matt chose to play D-II ball, assuming he had D-I talent, was to potentially win a Championship then yes I think he cheated himself and played below his ability.  Please re-read my post.

It is like an A League softball team signing up as a B team just to win a trophy.  What did they really achieve?

Go State!  ;D

[SDsportsFan]

Re: 2005 Recruits

If the only reason that Matt chose to play D-II ball, assuming he had D-I tallent, was to potentially win a Championship then yes I think he cheated himself and played below his ability.  Please re-read my post.

It is like an A League softball team signing up as a B team just to win a trophy.  What did they really achieve?

Go State!  ;D

Well my original quote was I could see a student wanting to play close to home, choose a school based on his major, and wanting a chance to play for a championship. Matt Jones certainly has D-I talent and I'm sure his decision to come here had something to do with the things I mentioned and I certainly don't think he cheated himself because of it. It's not as if he was just playing against little boys in DII. I remember being pissed about losing recruits to lower level D-I schools and couldn't see why. I certainly didn't feel that the one's choosing us were cheating themselves no matter what the reason was for choosing us. We've had some teams the last decade or so that would beat a lot of D-I schools in mens and womens basketball. I don't think we had a lot of underachievers because they could have been playing at those schools. Megan Vogel came here because of the success our women's program has had and knowing how much more success it could have, I don't view her as an underachiever for choosing us over a small D-I school.
Go Jacks!

[89rabbit]

Re: 2005 Recruits

Well my original quote was I could see a student wanting to play close to home, choose a school based on his major, and wanting a chance to play for a championship.

True, but in a later post you went on to say:

SDsportfan wrote: "I just think that some high school kids might think they'll have a better chance of possibly winning a national championship at USD than they will have at SDSU"

and those are the kids I was talking about. As you and I can agree Matt Jones does not fit this criteria.  

If a kid has more reasons that just wanting to play for a championship that is fine.  I have no beef with them.  Most decisions in life are based on a large number of factors.  I think you and I are in violent agreement on this one.  

Go State!  ;D

[gojacksgo]

Re: 2005 Recruits

I'm not so sure Jones was really being recruited by d1 schools. I think, although he was a really good player, he wasn't really thought to be as good as he actually is. I don't remember hearing much about him through his high school career. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but that is what i have always thought. Don't get me wrong, I think he would be a d1 calibur now, but was it thought that when he graduated high school too?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2005 Recruits

I also don't think DI schools were knocking down the doors of Matt Jones. He had a wonderful career at Wessington/Alpena and people I talked to that saw him play in high school never dreamt he would come in and take the NCC by storm like he did. I like to have dissenting opinion on this board but I'm starting to wonder if Sports_buff and SDsportsFan are who they pretend to be? They both joined on 11-30 within 4 minutes of each other?

[SDsportsFan]

Re: 2005 Recruits

True, but in a later post you went on to say:

SDsportfan wrote: "I just think that some high school kids might think they'll have a better chance of possibly winning a national championship at USD than they will have at SDSU"

and those are the kids I was talking about.  As you and I can agree Matt Jones does not fit this criteria.  

If a kid has more reasons that just wanting to play for a championship that is fine.  I have no beef with them.  Most decisions in life are based on a large number of factors.  I think you and I are in violent agreement on this one.  

Go State!  ;D

89rabbit,
I don't want you to think I'm trying to be argumentative here but I do have a question. Lets say 5 years ago we signed a player that could have played at Tenn. St, Denver, etc. but chose to come to SDSU because he they have had a successful program and he thought he could win a DII national title. Would you view that kid as an underachiever? Obviously there is no right or wrong answer there is only opinions, what would yours be in this hypothetical situation?

[jackmd]

Re: 2005 Recruits

I also don't think DI schools were knocking down the doors of Matt Jones. He had a wonderful career at Wessington/Alpena and people I talked to that saw him play in high school never dreamt he would come in and take the NCC by storm like he did. I like to have dissenting opinion on this board but I'm starting to wonder if Sports_buff and SDsportsFan are who they pretend to be? They both joined on 11-30 within 4 minutes of each other?

sportsFan's posts seem to have a bit of a "reporter's" tone to them. Plus, on another post, Mike_H expressed his support of Fan's opinions. Might they know each other? Don't answer that, just having a little fun with speculation.

I am not aware the Matt Jones received any scholarship offers from a single DI team. It came down to UND and SDSU and Matt chose us, barely, from what I understand. There was even talk that he would leave for UND at the time of the move, similar to Andy bolting for Mankato.