SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

[bisonbacker]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

BisonBacker: We cannot measure how strong was the inquiry about subsidizing travel. It may have been a side-part, afterthought to some more important question. It could have been one of the Presidents simply thinking aloud -- and then himself rejecting the very idea.

I agree with you that the notion of travel subsidies is offensive. All I'm saying is: there may not have been a serious question about it. There may not have been anything for NDSU and SDSU to respond to. And, if it was a serious question, then it's one that may best be left unanswered for a day or two and then a polite "no" be given.

I've been involved in way too many pressure-cooker negotiations sessions to let this type of point be very upsetting. Let's all calm down and wait and see.

And, BisonBacker, I'll join you in loud protest if that is a condition placed on admission. But you know, in the end, the administrations of both NDSU and SDSU have been pretty-darned smart about the whole D-1 move and they've certainly earned my trust and confidence. If they make some sort of business decision to throw a little change on the table to quiet down some of the dissenters, well...let's let them play that hand.

Just check out the link I provided, It was asked about and discussed. I won't harp on it anymore, I don't disagree with you about our respective administrations have handled the move to DI so far. I will disagree however to throwing out extra incentives to get in. But that is just my opinion. Have a great night guys, will check back tomorrow to see what everyone else thinks. So far most have been in the same camp as me though it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[SD-STATE]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

Sounds like we already had to buy into the Mid-Con. I don't know if that was a well known fact. Sounds as if we have already set precedent here. Maybe Gene and Fred think that paying some subsidies will equal out to the 2-3 trips a year to the west coast in the possibly new GWFC alingment.

[JackJD]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

Football is king at most universities and the revenue's generated by it pay the bills.

I have wondered if in past years, men's basketball was the big money-maker at SDSU -- don't know it for a fact but I've always wondered if the men's bb team netted more than football.  I suspect at NDSU in the past, football did exactly what you've described Bisonbacker.  In the transition years, the receipts for men's basketball at SDSU have certainly dropped while receipts have to be significantly better for football.  

I've also wondered if a winning football team has an added benefit of gaining more press attention which ripples out through the ranks of alumni who may not attend games but are reminded of their alma maters and open their checkbooks.

[BearsCountry]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

[quote author=Bisonbacker link=1161728686/165#176 date=1171948105]Football is king at most universities and the revenue's generated by it pay the bills.

I have wondered if in past years, men's basketball was the big money-maker at SDSU -- don't know it for a fact but I've always wondered if the men's bb team netted more than football.  I suspect at NDSU in the past, football did exactly what you've described Bisonbacker.  In the transition years, the receipts for men's basketball at SDSU have certainly dropped while receipts have to be significantly better for football.  

I've also wondered if a winning football team has an added benefit of gaining more press attention which ripples out through the ranks of alumni who may not attend games but are reminded of their alma maters and open their checkbooks.[/quote]

Football isnt the king with at least 4 to 5 of the Gateway schools, UNI might be the lone expection but basketball is king at MSU, SIU, Illinois St, and Indiana St. I know at MSU, we lost 500k on fb but made over a million in bb and that is without our new arena coming which means alot more $.

And to play the devil's advocate, and to comment on JackJD's last point, if you are a losing Gateway school and you have a chance to schedule two patsies from the OVC and a bus ride away or the 2 XDSU's, what do you do? Play the stronger competion or get the 2 sure wins?

[Haldersham]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

In reguards to the travel subsidy, I think it would be a good idea the next time you get chance at a game, and Dr Oien is availabe, ask him if we did not provide some sort of subsidy in the NCC for Northern Colorado. Fred was on staff when UNC joined the NCC.  I can recall vague discussing this detail with him. Also in the Argus article today, he is quoted as saying that paying subsidies are sort of standard. I dont think the entrance fee for which this subsidy comes will be an ongoing thing into the 22nd century. Its allows existing members to adjust their current budgets, but at some point down the road, every member is on their own in terms travel costs. This cant be a negative in my mind, and if an entrance fee was in the budget, this is not a surprise for either SDSU or NDSU. I am kind of surprised that the existing members who have been D1 for a number of years are not out of our reach in terms of finances. In fact some seem to be behind both NDSU and SDSU. Some have seating capacites for football of 12,000. Travel wise, the Gateway would be my perference over the GWFC, but either way I can live with the end results. I think we are finding out that of the 350 D1 members, there are some who are having financial challenges.

[bisonbacker]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

[quote author=JackJD link=1161728686/180#182 date=1171949037][quote author=Bisonbacker link=1161728686/165#176 date=1171948105]Football is king at most universities and the revenue's generated by it pay the bills.

I have wondered if in past years, men's basketball was the big money-maker at SDSU -- don't know it for a fact but I've always wondered if the men's bb team netted more than football. I suspect at NDSU in the past, football did exactly what you've described Bisonbacker. In the transition years, the receipts for men's basketball at SDSU have certainly dropped while receipts have to be significantly better for football.

I've also wondered if a winning football team has an added benefit of gaining more press attention which ripples out through the ranks of alumni who may not attend games but are reminded of their alma maters and open their checkbooks.[/quote]

Football isnt the king with at least 4 to 5 of the Gateway schools, UNI might be the lone expection but basketball is king at MSU, SIU, Illinois St, and Indiana St. I know at MSU, we lost 500k on fb but made over a million in bb and that is without our new arena coming which means alot more $.

And to play the devil's advocate, and to comment on JackJD's last point, if you are a losing Gateway school and you have a chance to schedule two patsies from the OVC and a bus ride away or the 2 XDSU's, what do you do? Play the stronger competion or get the 2 sure wins? [/quote]
Hey bears country I won't argue which sport makes more ching as it is different at every school but as a rule I have to believe football as a rule brings in more but hey I could be wrong it wouldn't be the first time. But if what your saying is true representation of how the Gateway members feel then so much for the toughest conference in FCS argument. You can't lay claim to the top by playing the bottom.

[bisonbacker]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

In reguards to the travel subsidy, I think it would be a good idea the next time you get chance at a game, and Dr Oien is availabe, ask him if we did not provide some sort of subsidy in the NCC for Northern Colorado. Fred was on staff when UNC joined the NCC. I can recall vague discussing this detail with him. Also in the Argus article today, he is quoted as saying that paying subsidies are sort of standard. I dont think the entrance fee for which this subsidy comes will be an ongoing thing into the 22nd century. Its allows existing members to adjust their current budgets, but at some point down the road, every member is on their own in terms travel costs. This cant be a negative in my mind, and if an entrance fee was in the budget, this is not a surprise for either SDSU or NDSU. I am kind of surprised that the existing members who have been D1 for a number of years are not out of our reach in terms of finances. In fact some seem to be behind both NDSU and SDSU. Some have seating capacites for football of 12,000. Travel wise, the Gateway would be my perference over the GWFC, but either way I can live with the end results. I think we are finding out that of the 350 D1 members, there are some who are having financial challenges.

Good points Haldersham but one has to truely question why some of these alleged DI universities are having problems. I say that because look at Montana, they are having $$ issues and you guys are the first ones to know about it and I don't agree with their method of getting out of them. But to basically hold other fellow institutions hostage so to speak isn't right. This really just brings to light the disparity in the different levels. Hell I thought we left the Augustana's and Mankato's of the world behind only to find out they are rearing their heads here in DI only under a different name.
Oh and your point about UNC is well taken, not meant to slam them but look how they are doing in DI. Enough said.

[SD-STATE]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

As I thought about it last night and read the Argus article this morning. I am beginning to feel better about a temporary subsidy to help off-set travel costs for a year or two. Some schools may need more than a few months to come up with a 20-40,000 trip, but most of them would have to anyway. I guess I'm still not sure where I stand on it. They have done it once before, why not pony up again. Sometimes you spend a little extra to take out that special girl you've always had your eye on.

[BTownJack]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

Here is a link to an article in the Fargo Forum:

http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/157185

There is a good quote in there by Dr. Oien

“I think it went very good, very good,” said SDSU athletic director Fred Oien. “The conversation was more that the conference seeks to become stronger and continues tradition of multiple teams getting into the playoffs. That was good news for us. They understand that quality enhances the opportunity for postseason.”

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

I'm into this thread late, judging on all the posts, but I'm really bothered by all the speculation, and thus a lot of negative comments that I don't think should be showing up at this time of the game. I don't think any poster really knows exactly what the facts are from the meeting, especially the details. Here are a few items to consider:
1) Admission fees to conferences are nothing new. It's part of the process.
2) Travel subsidies on a short-term basis for existing conference members when schools are added from a distance, is a standard consideration. And it would come from the conference funds, although the joining schools might basically fund it through the admission fees.

We don't know what was agreed upon or not agreed upon...and I would join all the posters that have noted that our respective AD's and presidents are fully capable of making decisions as to what is right for our two universities.

Finally, I believe the Gateway is the best answer for a large number of reasons...established, automatic qualifier, time zone, comminality of schools, etc. Saying you prefer GWFC now when everything is speculation and nothing is fact, seems premature to me. Let's cool it a bit and let our administrations proceed without rumors, counter rumors, and wild speculation.

[JimmyJack]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

I'm into this thread late, judging on all the posts, but I'm really bothered by all the speculation, and thus a lot of negative comments that I don't think should be showing up at this time of the game. I don't think any poster really knows exactly what the facts are from the meeting, especially the details. Here are a few items to consider:
1) Admission fees to conferences are nothing new. It's part of the process.
2) Travel subsidies on a short-term basis for existing conference members when schools are added from a distance, is a standard consideration. And it would come from the conference funds, although the joining schools might basically fund it through the admission fees.

We don't know what was agreed upon or not agreed upon...and I would join all the posters that have noted that our respective AD's and presidents are fully capable of making decisions as to what is right for our two universities.

Finally, I believe the Gateway is the best answer for a large number of reasons...established, automatic qualifier, time zone, comminality of schools, etc. Saying you prefer GWFC now when everything is speculation and nothing is fact, seems premature to me. Let's cool it a bit and let our administrations proceed without rumors, counter rumors, and wild speculation.

Amen.

[bisonbacker]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

I'm into this thread late, judging on all the posts, but I'm really bothered by all the speculation, and thus a lot of negative comments that I don't think should be showing up at this time of the game. I don't think any poster really knows exactly what the facts are from the meeting, especially the details. Here are a few items to consider:
1) Admission fees to conferences are nothing new. It's part of the process.
2) Travel subsidies on a short-term basis for existing conference members when schools are added from a distance, is a standard consideration. And it would come from the conference funds, although the joining schools might basically fund it through the admission fees.

We don't know what was agreed upon or not agreed upon...and I would join all the posters that have noted that our respective AD's and presidents are fully capable of making decisions as to what is right for our two universities.

Finally, I believe the Gateway is the best answer for a large number of reasons...established, automatic qualifier, time zone, comminality of schools, etc. Saying you prefer GWFC now when everything is speculation and nothing is fact, seems premature to me. Let's cool it a bit and let our administrations proceed without rumors, counter rumors, and wild speculation.

I'm pretty confident that neither president or AD comes to any message board to determine how they are going to proceed. Isn't the function of these boards to allow for folks to talk about what's on their minds? Plus much of what has been posted isn't speculation but just repeating what has been reported on by the media as well as comments from the presidents and AD's themselves.

[filbert]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

GWFC is good, Gateway would be better. The over-the-top angst displayed by some here and elsewhere (cough cough some bisonville posters cough cough) is, to me, mainly a source of some degree of amusement. How dare they think we're serious about the "WAC ATTACK!" How dare they want the conference to help pay for travel! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! I didn't get a Harumph out of that man! (Give the Governor a Harumph!)

People should relax a bit . . . spring is on the way, it'll be 60 degrees in KC tomorrow . . .

[bisonbacker]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

GWFC is good, Gateway would be better. The over-the-top angst displayed by some here and elsewhere (cough cough some bisonville posters cough cough) is, to me, mainly a source of some degree of amusement. How dare they think we're serious about the "WAC ATTACK!" How dare they want the conference to help pay for travel! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! I didn't get a Harumph out of that man! (Give the Governor a Harumph!)

People should relax a bit . . . spring is on the way, it'll be 60 degrees in KC tomorrow . . .

filbert,
First let me say that regarding the amount of money here people forget one thing. All this money that we are spending has to come from somewhere. I attended NDSU, my daughter will be attending NDSU next fall. I have a hard time seeing so much money being spent and when it's spent for travel of other teams to come and play us yes I get a little disgusted. If that's over the top angst or Harumph to you then so be it but I think people are all to quick to just say yeah it's ok go ahead and spend it.

[filbert]

Re: SDSU/NDSU to Gateway???

[quote author=filbert link=1161728686/180#192 date=1171999989]GWFC is good, Gateway would be better. The over-the-top angst displayed by some here and elsewhere (cough cough some bisonville posters cough cough) is, to me, mainly a source of some degree of amusement. How dare they think we're serious about the "WAC ATTACK!" How dare they want the conference to help pay for travel! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! I didn't get a Harumph out of that man! (Give the Governor a Harumph!)

People should relax a bit . . . spring is on the way, it'll be 60 degrees in KC tomorrow . . .

filbert,
First let me say that regarding the amount of money here people forget one thing. All this money that we are spending has to come from somewhere. I attended NDSU, my daughter will be attending NDSU next fall. I have a hard time seeing so much money being spent and when it's spent for travel of other teams to come and play us yes I get a little disgusted. If that's over the top angst or Harumph to you then so be it but I think people are all to quick to just say yeah it's ok go ahead and spend it. [/quote]

Harumph noted.