2012 2-Deep Chart

[mitchell]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

So you are blaming Castle and Purcell? Lol, just kidding. Good point about the snaps, I don't know. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say, which I doubt, that half of the sacks, 16 were due to bad snaps. The sacks still increased from 6 to 16 or 17 then in one year.

Remember the O coordinator and Head Coach wanted TOB to play ahead of Sumner. And who knows if they luck out and Moss sees the field as much last year?

Mitchell, I respect your views and opinions a lot. You are the man when it comes to recruits among much other knowledge. Why don't the Rabbits recruit bigger D tackles? I know they are hard to find. The last large one I remember was Schroeder, but I could be forgetting someone. Keep up the posts Mitchell. You make this forum worth reading. Others too, but you are up there.

One other reason for the sack increase might be because in previous years TOB would toss an INT when getting pressured and now Sumner takes more sacks to protect the ball. Not sure if that's accurate but it makes sense. That and the increase in passes thrown and botched snaps.

As far as D-Tackles go, I remember SDSU coaches saying that finding big DT's that are athletic enough to play D1 is hard to do. Most of them get snatched up by FBS schools and what's left are high school kids that are overweight and too slow.

It also feels that SDSU puts a higher emphasis on speed at the DT position more than unmovable force. A player that can quickly get into the backfield.

It's too bad that Dijon Starr didn't work out because he looked like he would have had both speed and size. I wonder if he has any shot at rejoining the team, I think he's still on campus.

[goon]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

One other reason for the sack increase might be because in previous years TOB would toss an INT when getting pressured and now Sumner takes more sacks to protect the ball. Not sure if that's accurate but it makes sense. That and the increase in passes thrown and botched snaps.

As far as D-Tackles go, I remember SDSU coaches saying that finding big DT's that are athletic enough to play D1 is hard to do. Most of them get snatched up by FBS schools and what's left are high school kids that are overweight and too slow.

It also feels that SDSU puts a higher emphasis on speed at the DT position more than unmovable force. A player that can quickly get into the backfield.

It's too bad that Dijon Starr didn't work out because he looked like he would have had both speed and size. I wonder if he has any shot at rejoining the team, I think he's still on campus.

I was going to ask if there were any players from a year or 2 ago who might be in good enough standing to get a chance to get back on the team, that is if they wanted to or didnt transfer.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Mitchell, I respect your views and opinions a lot. You are the man when it comes to recruits among much other knowledge. Why don't the Rabbits recruit bigger D tackles? I know they are hard to find. The last large one I remember was Schroeder, but I could be forgetting someone. Keep up the posts Mitchell. You make this forum worth reading. Others too, but you are up there.

Schroeder came to SDSU as a 235 lb freshman. He worked his butt of to get that big, but he definitely had the body type for it. SDSU isn't going to get 280lb freshman who can run and play defensive tackle. These kids will have to be developed because they are all being picked up by FBS schools.

[shot_5533]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Dijon Starr is still is on campus. I saw him at the Jacks games this fall. The issue with Dijon is that his scholarship is gone and the only way he gets back on the team, I think - I could be wrong, is he walks on. I think he'd have to remain a walk on. Dijon had pass rush moves, but I don't see him as a space eating run stuffer. It would be a good question for the reporters assigned to cover the team.

Finding a large 4-3 D tackle would be tough because of the speed needed. That is why a lot of teams play 3-4. Less D lineman needed and they don't have to be as fast. The outside LB's provide the speed. The D lineman eat up blockers.

As to why more sacks were given up by the O-lineman - isn't it obvious? You can't rotate O-lineman that much, too many guys playing who shouldn't have been on the field that much. Talent and production trump technique.

[Kemo]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Schroeder came to SDSU as a 235 lb freshman. He worked his butt of to get that big, but he definitely had the body type for it. SDSU isn't going to get 280lb freshman who can run and play defensive tackle. These kids will have to be developed because they are all being picked up by FBS schools.

^^^^ This

[ghomestead1]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

One other reason for the sack increase might be because in previous years TOB would toss an INT when getting pressured and now Sumner takes more sacks to protect the ball. Not sure if that's accurate but it makes sense. That and the increase in passes thrown and botched snaps.

As far as D-Tackles go, I remember SDSU coaches saying that finding big DT's that are athletic enough to play D1 is hard to do. Most of them get snatched up by FBS schools and what's left are high school kids that are overweight and too slow.

It also feels that SDSU puts a higher emphasis on speed at the DT position more than unmovable force. A player that can quickly get into the backfield.

It's too bad that Dijon Starr didn't work out because he looked like he would have had both speed and size. I wonder if he has any shot at rejoining the team, I think he's still on campus.

Mitchell is correct, it is easy to figure out why there were more sacks. First TOB was so scared of being hit he would throw the ball way over the benches, you guys didn't see any of those throws from Sumner. 2nd we threw the ball a lot more, and 3rd Sumner holds the ball longer for receivers to open up deeper down field. He didn't throw 20 out routes and swing routes again like the previous Q.

[blue/yellow glasses]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Bailey was not on staff the year that SDSU went to the playoffs. Bailey left in July of that year. Meadows was the o-coordinator and o-line coach and called the plays that year. Moore was on staff along with a GA, Josh Davis and Tripplett.

Bailey was on staff Berry's last year, he was the qb coach and I believe pass game coordinator. He did not call plays that year, Meadows did.

I agree that the sack numbers might be skewed because of the different type of qb's that were playing each of those years.

[joeboo22]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Mitchell is correct, it is easy to figure out why there were more sacks. First TOB was so scared of being hit he would throw the ball way over the benches, you guys didn't see any of those throws from Sumner. 2nd we threw the ball a lot more, and 3rd Sumner holds the ball longer for receivers to open up deeper down field. He didn't throw 20 out routes and swing routes again like the previous Q.

IDK if either of those spell good things for the O-line. They struggled. I think the difference was Moss, Moss didn't play much at the beginning of the year, it seemed like Sumner threw a fair share 50-50 balls and Moss went up and got them. I watched Moss's highlight video and all I can say is he REALLY helped out Sumners numbers. I talked to a guy who use to play at SDSU and he watched some games when TOB was the starter and when Sumner was the starter and said 2 big differences, 1 is they sent more then 1 guy on a route with Sumner and also said Moss helped a bunch. He really likes Sumner but said the coaches didn't put TOB in a position to win games at all with their game plan, said the same goes for Sumner the first couple of weeks when he was the starter. Said the line kills them though, said its a high school offense where they send 2-3 guys out routes and hopes Sumner stays in long enough for one of them to get sorta open. Said it won't matter who the QB is unless they get a running game established. He was really critical of the line and the running game.

I talked to a player and he said Kline looked better then Sumner at Fall Camp. From what I gathered I wouldn't be surprised if he ran the wildcat formation as apparently he can run and throw pretty well.

I talked to Robbie Jelsma over Thanksgiving and said he is the starting MLB going into Spring camp

My opinion on the Jacks is they won't become a playoff team until they develop a running game and have corners who can cover guys. Until that you can have a QB who throws for 400 yards and WR's who average over 100 yards a game but it won't matter. I watched a few games on TV and the secondary was so bad at times I could have made some of the passes.

Since the football team has lost its fair share of players due to academic issues does anybody know why?

Are they not qualifying out of high school? Not far enough with their degree? Not getting good enough grades?

Jacks could probably bring Daren Wilkinson back as I'm pretty sure he won't be returning to CSU with Fairchild getting canned today.

[mitchell]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

IDK if either of those spell good things for the O-line. They struggled. I think the difference was Moss, Moss didn't play much at the beginning of the year, it seemed like Sumner threw a fair share 50-50 balls and Moss went up and got them. I watched Moss's highlight video and all I can say is he REALLY helped out Sumners numbers. I talked to a guy who use to play at SDSU and he watched some games when TOB was the starter and when Sumner was the starter and said 2 big differences, 1 is they sent more then 1 guy on a route with Sumner and also said Moss helped a bunch. He really likes Sumner but said the coaches didn't put TOB in a position to win games at all with their game plan, said the same goes for Sumner the first couple of weeks when he was the starter. Said the line kills them though, said its a high school offense where they send 2-3 guys out routes and hopes Sumner stays in long enough for one of them to get sorta open. Said it won't matter who the QB is unless they get a running game established. He was really critical of the line and the running game.

I talked to a player and he said Kline looked better then Sumner at Fall Camp. From what I gathered I wouldn't be surprised if he ran the wildcat formation as apparently he can run and throw pretty well.

I talked to Robbie Jelsma over Thanksgiving and said he is the starting MLB going into Spring camp

My opinion on the Jacks is they won't become a playoff team until they develop a running game and have corners who can cover guys. Until that you can have a QB who throws for 400 yards and WR's who average over 100 yards a game but it won't matter. I watched a few games on TV and the secondary was so bad at times I could have made some of the passes.

Since the football team has lost its fair share of players due to academic issues does anybody know why?

Are they not qualifying out of high school? Not far enough with their degree? Not getting good enough grades?

Jacks could probably bring Daren Wilkinson back as I'm pretty sure he won't be returning to CSU with Fairchild getting canned today.

I think the football team has lost a couple players due to academics in the past 3-4 years; Starr & Koehlmos are the two that come to mind. Whatever the number is, I would bet it's one of the best rates in the MVC. (SDSU has had more all-academic members to their respective conferences for the past 7 years straight)

As far as Sumner, I agree that alot of his success was due to having some of the best WRs in the conference. At the sametime, he played really well and I don't think anyone is going to have to worry about too much regression. Sumner might be a case of a QB that performs much better on game day than at practice.

[ringthebells]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

I've never read or heard anything that said Sumner didn't practice well. Where did that come from?

[witness]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

I've never read or heard anything that said Sumner didn't practice well. Where did that come from?

I think it came from people that said that TOB looked great in practice and not very good in games so they assumed Sumner didnt practice well. But I could be wrong

[timeforachange]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Joeboo22 you must be a kline lover or seriously take too heart what one single guy tell you. I was at practices and kline did not even come close to outperforming Sumner. Ya your right moss may have helped Sumner on some throws but you can't even argue that Sumner doesnthad have more skills than tob. Kline doesn't hold a candle to Sumner.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

Joeboo22 you must be a kline lover or seriously take too heart what one single guy tell you. I was at practices and kline did not even come close to outperforming Sumner. Ya your right moss may have helped Sumner on some throws but you can't even argue that Sumner doesnthad have more skills than tob. Kline doesn't hold a candle to Sumner.

Consider the source and the fact he doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story. He talked to someone who talked to someone and watched a couple of games on TV.

[mitchell]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

I've never read or heard anything that said Sumner didn't practice well. Where did that come from?

I was saying because of two things, 1) that the coaches didn't put him ahead of O'Brien to start the year and 2) because JoeBoo claimed that a player said that Kline outperformed him in practices.

[KUlawJack]

Re: 2012 2-Deep Chart

I was saying because of two things, 1) that the coaches didn't put him ahead of O'Brien to start the year and 2) because JoeBoo claimed that a player said that Kline outperformed him in practices.

On Kline, I've heard he is a good player, but outperforming Sumner, that I have not heard.

Stig seemed pretty high on Austin at the last difference makers meeting.