NDSU v. IUPUI

[HoboJack]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

After looking at some of the explanations & excuses for what happened on BV, one thing really stands out to me. At least one of those involved has made references to how they do the same thing often, and other coaches & teams laugh along with them. They have labeled Oakland coach Kampe as 'Classy' for the way he interacts with them. This pretty much sums up what they think is acceptable behavior in a public forum, by the very definition of 'class'. I can think of many words to describe what I think of coach Kampe's behavior on the court, and 'Classy' wouldn't be one of them.

[UNDfan]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

I think the administration at NDSU needs to do something. The behavior of NDSU fans at Frost and at the Summit league tourney is an indication that there is a problem. Those were not just isolated incidences.

A while ago, happened to read this forum on Siouxsports. Some things don't change.



http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.p...0Roebuck&st=80

[jacks1]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

It is in the Oakland GDT thread...post 105
http://www.sdsufans.com/board/showth...t=9506&page=11

Thanks for finding the post, but in your original post you threw Kai Williams under the bus and also made mention of drinking inside of Frost, which obviously didn't happen....typical Bizun way of embellishing what really happened.

What happened at NDSU probably isn't as bad as it is being portrayed...but one thing is for sure. A handful of you dudes need to clean up your act.

[HandoEX]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Thanks for finding the post, but in your original post you threw Kai Williams under the bus and also made mention of drinking inside of Frost, which obviously didn't happen....typical Bizun way of embellishing what really happened.

What happened at NDSU probably isn't as bad as it is being portrayed...but one thing is for sure. A handful of you dudes need to clean up your act.

I mis-typed and didn't intentionally post the wrong name. My point was it would be pretty easy to speculate about something one person posted (said) without knowing the facts.
Also, you shouldn't be lumping all fans together. Specifically, don't reference me as one of "you dudes". Lol

[filbert]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

I think people need to be careful about drawing general conclusions from the behavior of a few.

My interactions with NDSU fans (and USD fans, for that matter) have generally been very cordial. Occasionally you come across somebody who either takes it way, way, way too seriously and loses perspective, or is just a jerk to begin with, but both are just parts of the human condition, and thankfully not really very common.

I'd also suggest that people also need to realize that what really happened in any incident is almost always somewhat different than what gets reported. Always. Sometimes reports get it almost right, sometimes not.

NDSU fans said something to set off the IUPUI players and their coach. Most of us don't know for sure what was said, and therefore we don't know whether or not the IUPUI guys are overreacting or not, or if NDSU's response was inadequate or not.

My POV is that IUPUI is the college that tried to fire one of their janitors for reading a book about Hitler as a part of his part-time studies there, so that tinges a bit my perception of the overall environment on that campus, and what they might or might not find offensive. On the other hand, NDSU (like all schools) has a huge number of really good fans, and a small handful of jerks. Neither is sufficient to pass judgment.

There will come at time when SDSU fans (on the one hand) or SDSU teams (on the other hand) are involved in some similar incident. So I'd suggest that people tune their overall response to this with that knowledge. IMHO the NDSU AD fumbled by calling this a "non-issue" but then again, I haven't seen his full statement, either. That they're putting extra security in place shows that they are treating it as something more than a non-issue. And as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

[Nidaros]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

My POV is that IUPUI is the college that tried to fire one of their janitors for reading a book about Hitler as a part of his part-time studies there, so that tinges a bit my perception of the overall environment on that campus, and what they might or might not find offensive.

How can you possibly connect these two incidents? Do you mean the folks at IUPUI are too sensative and politically correct? Or maybe too liberal? Some of the NDSU fans who where very close and involved said one of the players looked like Johny Ringer and I have no idea who this pop culture person is so dont know if its complementry or not, but name calling and taunting are not helpful. IUPUI was the better team on the floor and for the fans to try and make a difference with racial over tones or what ever was said is wrong. We all got upset with Old Titan and his too white comments on the ORU board. That was not helpful to ORU or anyone. Can we just repect the athletes for their abilities on the court be it the home team or the visiting team?


BTW how do we not know the janitor was not getting his work done, and just happened to be reading a book about Hitler when they caught him goofing off? If he was reading an Economics book by the Late John Kennth Galbraith, a hated liberal economist, it would be equally wrong, and grounds for dismissal.

[filbert]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

How can you possibly connect these two incidents? Do you mean the folks at IUPUI are too sensative and politically correct? Or maybe too liberal? Some of the NDSU fans who where very close and involved said one of the players looked like Johny Ringer and I have no idea who this pop culture person is so dont know if its complementry or not, but name calling and taunting are not helpful. IUPUI was the better team on the floor and for the fans to try and make a difference with racial over tones or what ever was said is wrong. We all got upset with Old Titan and his too white comments on the ORU board. That was not helpful to ORU or anyone. Can we just repect the athletes for their abilities on the court be it the home team or the visiting team?


BTW how do we not know the janitor was not getting his work done, and just happened to be reading a book about Hitler when they caught him goofing off? If he was reading an Economics book by the Late John Kennth Galbraith, a hated liberal economist, it would be equally wrong, and grounds for dismissal.

Educate yourself:

Administrators at Indiana University – Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI) have revoked their finding that a student-employee was guilty of racial harassment merely for publicly reading the book Notre Dame vs. the Klan: How the Fighting Irish Defeated the Ku Klux Klan. Following pressure from the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), IUPUI has declared that Keith John Sampson's record is clearand said it will reexamine its affirmative action procedures relating to internal complaints.

I apologize for mis-remembering it as a book about Hitler. It was a book about the Klan.

The incident demonstrates that IUPUI has not been immune from a certain institutional over-sensitivity regarding racial matters. This is relevant because coach Hunter and, apparently his team, interpreted things the NDSU fans were saying as being racial in nature. This certainly doesn't mean that they're in any way bad people, but it does mean that they live and work in an environment where the sensitivity towards such matters is much more heightened than it is in Fargo, North Dakota.

That's the point. We up here in the frozen north don't always realize how sensitive certain things may be--things which we don't think are at all controversial.

Of such things are misunderstandings made.

[Kemo]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

What Hunter said was that certain words were used that weren't acceptable in all contexts.

I'm going to guess what went on was more along the lines of gang and drug references, probably mixed in with some prostitution and prison references.

That is, a bunch of kids with no first hand knowledge of the subject spouting off in a manner that was far more offensive than they would've thought. Figuring, perhaps, that it wasn't a problem since they weren't saying anything that they haven't heard in rap music. (purely wild speculation on my part, of course)

^^^^This!

Very few know the specifics of the incident (including some even involved), but this seems very likely the case based on what has been reported in the media. If I recall correctly, I never heard Coach Hunter use the term "racial slurs" but rather "racial overtones", and there is a difference.

A racial slur is a negative word(s) used to insult those of a specific race or ethnicity. I don't think it is necessary to give examples, as anyone who isn't socially inept knows what I'm talking about.

The definition of overtone according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary is "a secondary effect, quality, or meaning", and this is a lot more subjective. I know Coach Hunter mentioned a heckler said something about a player's mother, and something as simple as this could be taken as a "racial overtone":[Note: This is an example and not an account nor a suggestion of what actually occurred]

It is common place amongst taunting in sport to say something about someone's mother (whether this is acceptable is a whole other argument), and it is a common stereotype toward urban, African-Americans that they grow up in single parent households, usually raised by their mothers. Combine the two and a comment regarding one's mother could be perceived as having "racial overtones" regardless of whether that was the intent or not. Now regardless if you are in the crowd that says people need to be more sensitive towards others or that others should have thicker skin and not take words out of context, one would have trouble arguing that a mix up in communication could potentially occur.

It is very possible that this entire situation could be one big misunderstanding, and could have been prevent by either party if one wasn't heckling or the other didn't react to the hecklers. All programs have there overly loud and overly sensitive people, and sometimes these opposing sides mix and these situations happen.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

I'm going to guess what went on was more along the lines of gang and drug references, probably mixed in with some prostitution and prison references.

Isn't this the same thing as posting rumors about someone? You have no idea what was said.

[zooropa]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Much like some of your idiot fans making our Volleyball girls Cry with their taunting in Brookings????? or did you forget about that already

http://sdsufans.com/board/showpost.p...7&postcount=32

Reading opens up a world of opportunities..... Including the opportunity to avoid sticking your foot in your mouth.

[zooropa]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Isn't this the same thing as posting rumors about someone? You have no idea what was said.

I used weasel words. West Side Rabbit did not. It's my private pet theory, patently identified as such.

There is a big difference between saying, "maybe this happened" and saying, "here's what happened."

[NoVaJack]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Forum article.
http://bit.ly/aloRxy
Key points: Other Bison fans apologized. Two of three in question were NOT students.

Broader question (and not Bison specific): When did rudness become synonymous with fandom?

[Nidaros]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Forum article.
http://bit.ly/aloRxy
Key points: Other Bison fans apologized. Two of three in question were NOT students.

Broader question (and not Bison specific): When did rudness become synonymous with fandom?

BINGO, THATS MY POINT TOO. I thank Filbert for his explanation on IUPUI, as I thought that maybe that was where he was coming from. Also I believe in the 1920's and even into the 1930's the Klan membership in Indiana was unbelieveable high. Also more active than what was going on in the Deep South, so as a whole Indiana is not lily white in their past history and hardly oversensative racially, but then I digress.

I still think SDSU has a vested interest in this incident, as it behoves them to take all the precautions necessary to NOT have a similar incident at Frost. Also do we want our guys roughed up on the road, by some fans doing rude acts? I would hope everyone would say no to that question.

[Nidaros]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Educate yourself:
I apologize for mis-remembering it as a book about Hitler. It was a book about the Klan.

The incident demonstrates that IUPUI has not been immune from a certain institutional over-sensitivity regarding racial matters. This is relevant because coach Hunter and, apparently his team, interpreted things the NDSU fans were saying as being racial in nature. This certainly doesn't mean that they're in any way bad people, but it does mean that they live and work in an environment where the sensitivity towards such matters is much more heightened than it is in Fargo, North Dakota.

That's the point. We up here in the frozen north don't always realize how sensitive certain things may be--things which we don't think are at all controversial.

Of such things are misunderstandings made.

As I said in the other post the Klan has a big big history in Indiana and Roman Catholics were often the target as well as Blacks and Jews. I read in a Cornhusker History book that Knute Rockne, legendary ND coach refused to bring his team back to Lincoln as the treatment that his team received from the Husker fans many being Klan members, was totally out of line. Also the Klan was active in the Dakotas, too, often Roman Catholics were the target. This is why atleast to me, it is an incident that the Summit should play close attention and take measures that bar any repeat of what happen in Fargo. Sensitivty, depends on whose feeling are being attacked.

I do think the two individuals who filed the EEO complaint against the janitor were out of line, but does that represent IUPUI as a whole? Not any more than the three jerks in Fargo were representing NDSU with their rude behaviour.

[JackJD]

Re: NDSU v. IUPUI

Forum article.
http://bit.ly/aloRxy
Key points: Other Bison fans apologized. Two of three in question were NOT students.

Broader question (and not Bison specific): When did rudness become synonymous with fandom?

The broader question is one that must be examined at EVERY school. Fans can be an important component in a team's success. I appears to me, however, that some fans think they have a license to do whatever they can up to the point of being thrown out of a game, to upset the other team (the popular phrase is "get in their heads"). In my opinion, that's a "right" not granted by the mere purchase of a ticket for entrance to an athletic contest. For most fans, the shouting etc. is reasonable. For some, it can be out of control.

I think NoVaJack has in the past accurately referred to some fans as being part of the "look at me" crowd. Those people are over the line. Period. Kick their butts out of the game when they get that way. The problems they will cause if allowed to continue will include stringent rules that will crimp a show of strong fan support from reasonable people.

Should reasonable fans sit back and tolerate rudeness when it comes from a person who appears to be supporting our team? No. Not any more than we should tolerate rudeness from the opponent's fans.