Will UND be in the Summit?

[NoVaJack]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

I like a 12 team league, split up. So after UND and USD ride our coattails in can we bounce SUU and find a replacement?

Little presumptuous to be "bouncing" teams out of a league we just joined. How about having Denver join with USD and UND and have a split conference, with the four Dakota schools, Denver, ORU and SUU in the West, and the two Indiana acronyms, WIU, Centenary, Oakland, Northern Iowa and UMKC in the East.

You could have 19 league games. Home and home with your six West or East compatriots, and one game apiece with the other seven.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

Little presumptuous to be "bouncing" teams out of a league we just joined. How about having Denver join with USD and UND and have a split conference, with the four Dakota schools, Denver, ORU and SUU in the West, and the two Indiana acronyms, WIU, Centenary, Oakland, Northern Iowa and UMKC in the East.

You could have 19 league games. Home and home with your six West or East compatriots, and one game apiece with the other seven.

I don't think Northern Iowa is going to want to leave the Missouri Valley for the Summit League.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

[quote]While it's nice for the xDSUs because we'll get a couple good crowds and some short(read: cheap) trips, it doesn't benefit the conference as a whole. For other members, it's another long trip that they'd don't need to make. [quote]

Did you use the same argument when SDSU and NDSU were trying to get into the Summit?

Adding USD and UND would benefit 5 of the 12 Summit schools as far as travel, especially if you were to go to a split league with a north and south division. Suddenly those 5 schools (Dakota schools and UMKC) can take bus trips to 4 of their conference destinations. If you did a split league then those teams could take a bus to 8 of the 18 conference games on the schedule. You would have 5 teams (almost half your conference) within 9 hours of each other.

Up here in the Dakotas it is far, far more difficult for us to schedule non-conference games where we don't have to fly that it is the heartland teams, the southern teams or even SUU. So we balance that out with the closer conference games, meaning it does make it fair for everyone in the league.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

[quote]Little presumptuous to be "bouncing" teams out of a league we just joined. {quote]
As stated earlier, I was joking. Moreso making a point that, even in this league, SUU doesn't fit geographically.

And there is no way in the wide, wide world of sports that UNI would leave the Valley. And if they did, say goodbye to anyone else recieving an autimatic bid.

[jackmd]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

The focus needs to be on maintaining the current core membership and DI post-season eligibility. The programs that provide that will have the largest say in who is added and who is not added.

My point is not that USD should not be added but that the discussion should be more centered around the benefits for USD/UND. All this talk about adding teams takes away from the progress that the current teams in the Summit have made.

I think there should be a little less focus on the U's during our conference tourney or in the week preceding our first appearance in the NCAA DI basketball tourney. It is an interesting discussion to have but the opinions are really limited to SU and U supporters on these forums. I wonder what the other programs fans are thinking?

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

[quote]Additionally, adding the UxDs doesn't help the conference where we need it most: men's basketball. We have to face the facts: the Summit is a low-major conference. We have three teams at the moment that are mid-majors: NDSU, ORU & Oakland. The rest are low-majors. In order to be considered a mid-major conference, over half the men's basketball programs will have to be mid-majors. If we add the UxDs, we'd be adding two more low-major programs while increasing the number of mid-majors we'd need to bump up the conference. [quote]

So then we add nobody because there is no way we are going to add a mid-major team to a low-major conference. I think USD has an oppurtunity to have a respectable D1 program. I don't think UND will ever get there, at least not consistently.


Again, the UxDs don't bring anything new to the Summit that the xDSUs didn't already bring. Both states are small media markets, and the Dakota State that moved up has already brought most of its state's attention. In North Dakota, we have three types of sports fans: the neutral fan, the NDSU partisan, and the UND partisan. NDSU has already brought the Summit the attention of the first two groups and a small share of the third. Adding UND would get the rest of the North Dakota sports fans, but that remaining share isn't really that big. I'm sure the same is true for South Dakota.

[quote]I think the way the Sioux Falls media has reported the USD invite as a done deal is inappropriate. It shows an arrogance that is unbecoming. It says USD is so much better than the Summit that the conference will be lucky if the school stoops to accept the offer. [quote]
I guess I don't see it that way. I view it as 1.) they understand the rivalries already established w/ two of the Summit schools. 2.) The geographic advantages and quality of UND and USD are too much too ignore and 3.) the Summit is very pleased with SDSU and NDSU.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

UxDs reduce conference RPI, yes, but more importantly provide history, stability, fan support, and media coverage.

Thank you for saying everything I mean to say. RPI doesn't matter in a conference where 19 out of 20 years you will only get one bid, the automatic bid.

RPI - doesn't matter.

Stability - you would be adding two more schools (enrollment at or above 10k) who are very solid and very commited.

Fan support - up for the conference as a whole and the interest in the Dakota's, who would soon become the backbone of the conference, would be outstanding.

Media coverage - Nationally it doesn't matter. Unless you get a team in or darn near the top 25, noone will pay attention nationally anyway. Regionally it will improve, especially in the Dakota's.

[zooropa]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

I think UND has potential.

Once they get unchained from that nickname/Engelstad boulder.

---

Re: Denver

The conference rep for the Summit on TV's live blog said that Denver wasn't in the Summit's 'geographic footprint.'

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

[quote]As for restarting the rivalries, why do they have to be in the same conference to do that? Wouldn't be better for the rest of the conference for the xDSUs to play the UxDs as regular non-conference games? [quote]

I think the fact that both are in the same conference is even better for the rivalry, plus it adds interest and familiarity statewide and means we'll see each other in conference tournies. Could you imagine how much better the Summit tourney "at the Falls" if two more regional schools were there?




[quote]My best case scenario for this June will be if the Summit presidents do not vote on expansion but give USD encouragement that they will eventually be invited if they field competitive programs by the end of their transition. [quote]

I think jackmd thinks this way and I agree 100%



[quote]Zooropa, you are getting pretty close in your attitude to one of the most infamous posters in the tri-state region: MplsBison. When someone disagrees with you on this topic, you automatically assume it's because of bad feelings. [quote]

I have to admit that I feel this way too when I see people so against adding USD and UND. I know there have been hard feelings and believe me, I've had/have them too. But we can't let that get in the way of rational thinking (not suggesting you are doing this). UND and USD hurt themselves and made themselves look ignorant and shortsided by not going D1 5 years ago. Now the xDSU's have a head start and the other two might pay for that for a long time. Good enough for me.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

RPI - doesn't matter.

Tell that to the SDSU Women's team this year. Their seeding may suffer because of the low RPI they have gotten from playing some teams in the Conference.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

Unless someone has read the complete Summit Plan or can see it, we don't know who, what, when, or how expansion fits in the schedule of the "Plan". Well, we kind of know who some of the "whos" are, but the when is kind of up in the air. They could announce USD this summer, but when does it take affect. Two years from now, three, five?

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

Tell that to the SDSU Women's team this year. Their seeding may suffer because of the low RPI they have gotten from playing some teams in the Conference.

True. But it's still very small in the master plan of what we're talking about. The women might slide 1-3 spots b/c of the RPI. Not that big of a deal.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

True. But it's still very small in the master plan of what we're talking about. The women might slide 1-3 spots b/c of the RPI. Not that big of a deal.

Maybe not a big deal... but going from maybe a 5 seed to sliding to a 8 seed you have to play a #1 seed in the second round vs. a #1 seed in the sweet sixteen.

[Rabbit74]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

My personal preference would be for the UXD's to not be admitted to the conference. But I have conceded the fact that it is going to happen and recognize that it probably is the best decision. The real issue at this point is when will it be announced and when will it be effective. My guess is that it will be announced this June for USD for UND as soon as they solve thier logo issue. My guess for the revenue sports is that it will be effective with the 2011-2012 season. They of course would not be eligible for the post season tourney until 2012-2013. If Sioux Falls gets the bid for the tournament for two more years after the current contract expires as looks very possible, USD would not be eligible to participate in any of the four tournaments. Hopefully, the tournament will be here much longer than that.

[Lakesbison]

Re: Will UND be in the Summit?

no u n d !!! No !!!