Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

[FargoBison]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Looking at the mens rosters for SDSU,USD and UND there are 8 Minnesota players with only 3 of them from the Twin Cities area. The Twin Cities media during this time period is already covering state high school tournaments (4 classes each in boys and girls basketball,2 classes each of boys and girls hockey and 3 classes of wrestling ),The WCHA Final Five,the mens and womens Gopher teams in the Big 10 tournament,the Timberwolves and Wild,plus the Twins in the heart of spring training. It doesn't look to me like there is much potential for a lot of coverage for a handful of Twin Cities players that play for colleges located hundreds of miles away.

The Final Five doesn't start until the beginning of the NCAA tournament, the Big 10 tournament doesn't start until the after the Summit is done. I believe high school hockey is later as well. The Summit seems to fall into an area where it is just before everything gets going.

Add NDSU in and you have what, 16 Minnesota players and 6 from the metro. That is a decent amount, I think they'll get coverage since it would be a unique event. Media likes new and interesting stories, especially when there is a local angle.

[bigticket1]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

There are 50,000 alumni and a ton of Minnesota kids on our teams, there is a local connection in Minneapolis. I don't think you guys have the right perspective on this, I've been two NDSU football games and of course the NCAA tournament in Minneapolis and it was amazing how many NDSU fans were there. Add in fans of the other three dakota schools and the town could be taken over. The media will cover local athletes and since the city doesn't get conference tournaments it would be unique.

I think it should be given a try. If it fails it is a two year deal and would never be tried again. What is the harm in that?

Looking at the mens rosters for SDSU,USD and UND there are 8 Minnesota players with only 3 of them from the Twin Cities area. The Twin Cities media during this time period is already covering state high school tournaments (4 classes each in boys and girls basketball,2 classes each of boys and girls hockey and 3 classes of wrestling ),The WCHA Final Five,the mens and womens Gopher teams in the Big 10 tournament,the Timberwolves and Wild,plus the Twins in the heart of spring training. It doesn't look to me like there is much potential for a lot of coverage for a handful of Twin Cities players that play for colleges located hundreds of miles away.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

I think whether it's in Sioux Falls or Fargo having it in a community that is near the university and the core of it's most avid supporters allows them to drive in for tournament games each day when their respective team plays and sleep in their own bed at night. Let's face it there will be a lot of fans who can't afford the time off or the money to spend four days in the Twin Cities. I'm also not convinced you will galvonize those alumni bases in the Twin Cities to show up.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

I don't understand why some seem so anxious to move the tourney out of our own backyard.

It might be more fun to spend a few days in Minneapolis than in Sioux Falls, but the idea is to win the tournament. I like our chances a whole lot better with a major home-court advantage. We have that in SF. It won't be matched anywhere else except in Brookings, and we know it can't be there.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Personally, I think MSP wouldn't work because I agree with those who think it needs to be in a city where the tourney is a big deal, but keeping it in SF forever just because it was a success in its first year is just as short-sighted as the decisions of the UxD leadership when the xDSUs went DI. A single year of data is not enough to make long-term plans. Let's give it to SF for 2010-11 and see how the next two years pan out. Then, we'll see if Fargo, MSP, Tulsa, Quad Cities, or Indy can put together competitive bids for 2012-13 and let the chips fall where they may. Just because SF did a fantastic job this year doesn't mean another city can't do even better.
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And quite frankly, if nobody else pushes Sioux Falls, it is likely to stagnate in the future. I don't want that to happen, but if in the fifth or sixth year, the newness will have worn out but it hasn't been around long enough to really have established itself as a "Sioux Falls Tradition." Not saying that I want it to go anywhere else, but I do admit that this may have been a unique year in which to evaluate how it works in Sioux Falls. The SDSU women were in an unbelievable position from a national perspective, and NDSU's men were one of the favorites in their first year of eligibility. SF never gets the newness again, and who knows how the various teams story lines will play out.

Last year was magic for me. I know that the magic was created by a lot of hard work by a lot of people, however there was a little bit of luck thrown in also. I sure hope it happens again next year.

[FargoBison]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Warning: off-the-wall, rampant personal speculation ahead. Your mileage may vary.

I think part of the relative difference in reaction to the tournament in MSP lays in the fact that, in my perception at least, there is a much, much stronger cultural connection between North Dakota and Minnesota/Minneapolis-St. Paul than exists between the city and state and South Dakota.

For most North Dakotans, Minneapolis/St. Paul is the only major city that really matters. While it's THE major city for a lot of South Dakotans as well, Denver, KC, and even Omaha and Chicago all have pieces of the "big-city" cultural influence in SD as well. So South Dakotans may not look quite as automatically towards MSP as the major urban center as ND folks may tend to do. Not saying that Denver and Winnepeg don't also have that big-city pull for ND, just that SD has a bit different relationship to MSP that ND does in the aggregate.

Of course, there's also the fact that SD has already hosted the tournament and, perhaps, there's a feeling that in some way it's "theirs" and SD folks don't want to share it with MSP.

Just a diversion into pop sociology, and of course IMHO.

That is probably right on, eastern ND is very connected with MSP and it goes way back. I don't think there is any other major metro that eastern ND identifies with other than MSP.

I also think the fact that SD has hosted the tournament and it went well is also playing into this, that said you guys are probably going to have to share it eventually. Fargo will probably put a strong bid in next time but our AD is worried about the weather, he said if Fargo was hosting it this past year the conference wouldn't forget about the blizzard that hit us. That was a bad blizzard by ND standards, I shudder to think what people not from here would have thought about it.

Luckily we have never had a weather issue for any of our conference games.

[FargoBison]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Although NDSU fans do travel well, how many NDSU fans do you think would show up in Minneapolis if NDSU wasn't in the tournament? Or lost in the first round? I do not ask this as smack--in the future, with 1/3 of the conference schools missing the tourney, it is a very real possibility. Ours will likely be a 12 team league in the near future, and under the current format that means 4 teams staying home.

The perspective that many on this board do have is that no matter who is in the tournament, it will always be a big deal in the eyes of the Sioux Falls Media. Which will give it more exposure than it could ever hope to get in Minneapolis. Which, in theory will lead to more tickets sold.

Minneapolis has a higher risk/reward. Sioux Falls is the safe bet--a bet the conference made at a time when SDSU was not very good at men's basketball. Why take a risky bet on an inexperienced Bison team?

Of course all of this is moot until someone from Minneapolis actually bids for the tournament.

UND is probably just as connected with MSP as NDSU is. I don't know what would happen if NDSU didn't make it or lost. I suppose there would still be the womens team to follow and I think NDSU fans would be a bit more likely to take a four day vacation to MSP then SF and I'm sure fans of other schools would say the same thing. I guess there is no way of knowing until it happened. It is a gamble, I'll admit that.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Could one explanation be that the tournament set attendance marks in sioux falls?
Why mess with a proven thing?

DII and the NCC were proven things; I guess we shouldn't have messed with them. The Mid-Con tourney set new attendance records when it moved to Tulsa, I guess it should have stayed there.

Personally, I think MSP wouldn't work because I agree with those who think it needs to be in a city where the tourney is a big deal, but keeping it in SF forever just because it was a success in its first year is just as short-sighted as the decisions of the UxD leadership when the xDSUs went DI. A single year of data is not enough to make long-term plans. Let's give it to SF for 2011-12 and see how the next two years pan out. Then, we'll see if Fargo, MSP, Tulsa, Quad Cities, or Indy can put together competitive bids for 2013-14 and let the chips fall where they may. Just because SF did a fantastic job this year doesn't mean another city can't do even better.


Also, how about we wait and see how Jack fans travel to the Gopher football game? One of the reasons a lot of Bison fans like the MSP idea is because of the great time they had during the two Bison-Gopher FB games. You guys haven't had that experience yet, but will in a few months. Tickets will be harder to come by because of the new stadium, but it still may change the outlook of some of you.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

There are 50,000 alumni and a ton of Minnesota kids on our teams, there is a local connection in Minneapolis. I don't think you guys have the right perspective on this, I've been two NDSU football games and of course the NCAA tournament in Minneapolis and it was amazing how many NDSU fans were there. Add in fans of the other three dakota schools and the town could be taken over. The media will cover local athletes and since the city doesn't get conference tournaments it would be unique.

I think it should be given a try. If it fails it is a two year deal and would never be tried again. What is the harm in that?

Although NDSU fans do travel well, how many NDSU fans do you think would show up in Minneapolis if NDSU wasn't in the tournament? Or lost in the first round? I do not ask this as smack--in the future, with 1/3 of the conference schools missing the tourney, it is a very real possibility. Ours will likely be a 12 team league in the near future, and under the current format that means 4 teams staying home.

The perspective that many on this board do have is that no matter who is in the tournament, it will always be a big deal in the eyes of the Sioux Falls Media. Which will give it more exposure than it could ever hope to get in Minneapolis. Which, in theory will lead to more tickets sold.

Minneapolis has a higher risk/reward. Sioux Falls is the safe bet--a bet the conference made at a time when SDSU was not very good at men's basketball. Why take a risky bet on an inexperienced Bison team?

Of course all of this is moot until someone from Minneapolis actually bids for the tournament.

[FargoBison]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

I personally think the Summit League Tournament has the potential to be a real success in Minneapolis if held at the right time and promoted right, but I think Sioux Falls is less of a gamble as of now. When USD and presumably UND are full members I think the gamble becomes less risky, but the problem still lies in who is going to take the gamble in Minneapolis? There a lot more corporate sponsorship opportunities in the Twin Cities area; so which company or group of companies are willing to put together a big enough bid to land the tournament that has more risk involved than other sponsorship opportunities in the area? There is also the issue with finding a facility available for 4 straight days that could host these games, as the Target Center could be already booked with either T-Wolves games or the Minnesota State Basketball Tournament.

I think many of us understand where you are coming from FargoBison, but there is a lot of red tape that needs to be cut down in order to be able to even try this experiment. If this is to ever happen, I think it will be at the pushing of xDSU/UxD alumni that live in the Twin City area and has a lot of money/pull within the community.

That is a great take Kemo, very solid. It is definitely going to take some teamwork and working the right connections. I do agree that if all four Dakota schools are in is when it becomes the most attractive. It might take NDSU and UND working together to get the ball rolling and at least in the past that hasn't always been a great partnership but the new admin up in GF seems to have a new outlook on things.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

I actually think FargoB makes some good points. I am not sure that it would have the success it will in Sioux Falls, but I think that if it went over extremely well in MSP, it could do better for the conference than it does in meeting our current expectations in Sioux Falls. If it does horrible in the MSP, I wonder if it would be worse than it has been in past years? I don't know on that at all.

Is it a gamble, you bet? But as with all gambling situations, they only way you are assured of never knowing is by not placing your bet.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

I've brought this up on Bisonville and ORU's board, kind of funny that only SDSU fans object to it.

Could one explanation be that the tournament set attendance marks in sioux falls?
Why mess with a proven thing?

[filbert]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

You experiment because it could work, maybe even locals check it out because there is a local factor with all Minnesota athletes and it is unique. I know people in Minnesota are aware of NDSU and UND, you act like I'm pushing Chicago, over half of NDSU's student body is from Minnesota with a large chunk of that coming from the Twin Cities.

Call me crazy but I think it is better to be in a major metro area, if the Summit can find a niche in Minneapolis it could be great for the league.

Minneapolis is probably the most fair option for the rest of the league, it is neutral and far easier to get to. If it works it could be the perfect option. Better than Fargo or SF, if it fails then it never has to happen again.

I hope the tournament is never in GF, they don't support the ND state tournament. They only support hockey.

I've brought this up on Bisonville and ORU's board, kind of funny that only SDSU fans object to it.

Warning: off-the-wall, rampant personal speculation ahead. Your mileage may vary.

I think part of the relative difference in reaction to the tournament in MSP lays in the fact that, in my perception at least, there is a much, much stronger cultural connection between North Dakota and Minnesota/Minneapolis-St. Paul than exists between the city and state and South Dakota.

For most North Dakotans, Minneapolis/St. Paul is the only major city that really matters. While it's THE major city for a lot of South Dakotans as well, Denver, KC, and even Omaha and Chicago all have pieces of the "big-city" cultural influence in SD as well. So South Dakotans may not look quite as automatically towards MSP as the major urban center as ND folks may tend to do. Not saying that Denver and Winnepeg don't also have that big-city pull for ND, just that SD has a bit different relationship to MSP that ND does in the aggregate.

Of course, there's also the fact that SD has already hosted the tournament and, perhaps, there's a feeling that in some way it's "theirs" and SD folks don't want to share it with MSP.

Just a diversion into pop sociology, and of course IMHO.

[Kemo]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

There are 50,000 alumni and a ton of Minnesota kids on our teams, there is a local connection in Minneapolis. I don't think you guys have the right perspective on this, I've been two NDSU football games and of course the NCAA tournament in Minneapolis and it was amazing how many NDSU fans were there. Add in fans of the other three dakota schools and the town could be taken over. The media will cover local athletes and since the city doesn't get conference tournaments it would be unique.

I think it should be given a try. If it fails it is a two year deal and would never be tried again. What is the harm in that?

I personally think the Summit League Tournament has the potential to be a real success in Minneapolis if held at the right time and promoted right, but I think Sioux Falls is less of a gamble as of now. When USD and presumably UND are full members I think the gamble becomes less risky, but the problem still lies in who is going to take the gamble in Minneapolis? There a lot more corporate sponsorship opportunities in the Twin Cities area; so which company or group of companies are willing to put together a big enough bid to land the tournament that has more risk involved than other sponsorship opportunities in the area? There is also the issue with finding a facility available for 4 straight days that could host these games, as the Target Center could be already booked with either T-Wolves games or the Minnesota State Basketball Tournament.

I think many of us understand where you are coming from FargoBison, but there is a lot of red tape that needs to be cut down in order to be able to even try this experiment. If this is to ever happen, I think it will be at the pushing of xDSU/UxD alumni that live in the Twin City area and has a lot of money/pull within the community.

[FargoBison]

Re: Will Summit tourney stay in Sioux Falls?

Why go to Minneapolis and experiment when you don't have too. I would rather see it in Grand Forks or Bismarck where I think the locals will get behind it because it's a big deal for the community than take it to Minneapolis where it won't be percieved as a quality entertainment option as most outside of alumni in the area have ever heard of the schools.

You experiment because it could work, maybe even locals check it out because there is a local factor with all Minnesota athletes and it is unique. I know people in Minnesota are aware of NDSU and UND, you act like I'm pushing Chicago, over half of NDSU's student body is from Minnesota with a large chunk of that coming from the Twin Cities.

Call me crazy but I think it is better to be in a major metro area, if the Summit can find a niche in Minneapolis it could be great for the league.

Minneapolis is probably the most fair option for the rest of the league, it is neutral and far easier to get to. If it works it could be the perfect option. Better than Fargo or SF, if it fails then it never has to happen again.

I hope the tournament is never in GF, they don't support the ND state tournament. They only support hockey.

I've brought this up on Bisonville and ORU's board, kind of funny that only SDSU fans object to it.