Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause")

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

I understand SF rabbit fan and agree, with much he has written, but calling Rochester Hills, Mi the worst city in America, better inform a bunch of millionaires there so they can get out.

I wasn't calling Rochester Hills, MI the worst city in America (edit - i guess i did, wasn't intended. I meant to call Detroit the worst city in America. The millionaires in Rochester Hills, MI likely did get out of the areas where these players grew up.)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

SDSU was very quiet about the circumstances surrounding Oien's departure. A responsible employer does not talk to the press about the reasons why a person was fired.

Completely agree. Was just saying there is probably a lot more to it than a religious coach who was concerned about players' weight.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

Monitor weight vs. doing what she did. Same thing, right? I'm sure AJ has his female assistants take pictures of all the girls in their underwear to chart body changes. No doubt in my mind that our program does that. Seems very normal. I stopped reading your post after the first line.

Do you think what someone's body looks like determines whether or not they are in shape? Some people are just big and can be in great shape. I'm thin and look in shape but I can barely run a 5k. But please, go on. Maybe try to mention how sensitive people are today and make a reference to the "good 'ol days."

[goon]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

Monitor weight vs. doing what she did. Same thing, right? I'm sure AJ has his female assistants take pictures of all the girls in their underwear to chart body changes. No doubt in my mind that our program does that. Seems very normal. I stopped reading your post after the first line.

Do you think what someone's body looks like determines whether or not they are in shape? Some people are just big and can be in great shape. I'm thin and look in shape but I can barely run a 5k. But please, go on. Maybe try to mention how sensitive people are today and make a reference to the "good 'ol days."

for a health screening at a fitness center in SF i had to just wear shorts when a female trainer took measurements, waist, arms etc. don't they realize the damage they did to me. why do you think people take before and after pictures, so you can see what you use to look like, ever see those late night insanity or fitness infommercials. they are guys in shorts and women in sports bras who are a lot less fit then those college basketball players but they use that image to help motivate to work harder and change themselves.

Maybe try reading the entire post to get the full story someone writes. Obviously you disagreed with what she did as a coach, frankly i think most coaches take most things they do a little to far. my best friends from college on the track team, I think at least 1 time a week was puking from practice because the coaches were pushing them so hard. he hated it and they made it miserable but he was the best shape ever and greatly improved in his skills. Hell our football coach calls the lineman the fat guys, oh no, the damage he must be doing. Our basketball coaches says prayers with the team, oh no the horror of him influencing these young men with his religous beliefs.

Was she was overly obsessive, sure, but I recall a year when mens basketball started practice and a lot of Nagys time was talking about how disapointed he was in the team for not working harder in the off season, how they were not in shape, and frankly that year it showed, they really wore down as the year went. Were there issues that got her fired, yep, but trying to get her team into better shape and doing what she thought was a good way to influence her players off the court, doesnt really make her the worst person in the world.

[Nidaros]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

Football only a few weeks away, and then we will forget all about Becky Francis and her religion. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

I think you're reading it wrong, goon. I agree with everything she did. I have no idea why Oakland fired her. Hopefully she can win a wrongful termination lawsuit and restore her name and continue with what were obviously best practices.

[zooropa]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

for a health screening at a fitness center in SF i had to just wear shorts when a female trainer took measurements, waist, arms etc. don't they realize the damage they did to me.

None of us know the 'best practices' for training in this environment.

I'm not going to say that before/progress pics are or are not out of the ordinary, because, frankly, I have no idea. I could see value in pics in a constructive sense. It wouldn't surprise or shock me if I found out that the strength & conditioning staff were doing so in a professional capacity and in a one-on-one, not a team setting.

However, I think the Freep article's training expert had it right when she expressed surprise that the basketball coaches would be involved in something like that, seeing that they didn't know what they were doing. That *does* seem out of the ordinary. The coaches and players at SDSU tend to pretty regularly credit the strength and conditioning staff, not their own expertise on the subject.

[JackJD]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

I think you're reading it wrong, goon. I agree with everything she did. I have no idea why Oakland fired her. Hopefully she can win a wrongful termination lawsuit and restore her name and continue with what were obviously best practices.

.....

[goon]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

I think you're reading it wrong, goon. I agree with everything she did. I have no idea why Oakland fired her. Hopefully she can win a wrongful termination lawsuit and restore her name and continue with what were obviously best practices.

Yeah. Sarcasm pretty cool.

[witness]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

All that blatant sarcasm. Smh. Since people are explaining stories I suppose I'll tell mine. My last year of hs wrestling I weighed 131 with 3.5% body fat and was cutting down to 114. There used to be a joke on the team that I looked like a skeleton since you could see me my cheekbones and ribs. Was it fun? No, but it made the wrestling team better so I sacrificed every week by not eating 3 days a week to make weight.

Another example is in the guards. We didnt take pictures but we weighed ourselves twice a year and if you are overweight you stripped down into your underwear and got taped. Tell me how that is different. I would rather get pictures taken in underwear than Tom Izzo continually calling me out in public like he did with Payne. If anybody wants to say that eating disorders are prevelant in females if they focus on weight, my male cousin became anorexic from losing weight in wrestling.

If people are really complaint about a few pictures than I smh. I'm sure she didn't do it at the beginning but I'm sure she figured out that setting charts with pictures prevented players from showing up out of shape than not

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

All that blatant sarcasm. Smh. Since people are explaining stories I suppose I'll tell mine. My last year of hs wrestling I weighed 131 with 3.5% body fat and was cutting down to 114. There used to be a joke on the team that I looked like a skeleton since you could see me my cheekbones and ribs. Was it fun? No, but it made the wrestling team better so I sacrificed every week by not eating 3 days a week to make weight.

Another example is in the guards. We didnt take pictures but we weighed ourselves twice a year and if you are overweight you stripped down into your underwear and got taped. Tell me how that is different. I would rather get pictures taken in underwear than Tom Izzo continually calling me out in public like he did with Payne. If anybody wants to say that eating disorders are prevelant in females if they focus on weight, my male cousin became anorexic from losing weight in wrestling.

If people are really complaint about a few pictures than I smh. I'm sure she didn't do it at the beginning but I'm sure she figured out that setting charts with pictures prevented players from showing up out of shape than not

I agree with all of this. Especially the bold. Who would complaint about a few pictures? Eating disorders? Sounds like they just need to sacrifice more for the team. Don't think anyone should complaint about that smh.

[witness]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

I agree with all of this. Especially the bold. Who would complaint about a few pictures? Eating disorders? Sounds like they just need to sacrifice more for the team. Don't think anyone should complaint about that smh.

Arrogant sarcasm. One of the coolest things I've seen. I've dealt with worse than a few pictures. Id rather have pictures taken of me than a coach calling me out in public like Tom Izzo did.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Becky Francis "retires" at Oakland (update: "fired for cause&quot

Arrogant sarcasm. One of the coolest things I've seen. I've dealt with worse than a few pictures. Id rather have pictures taken of me than a coach calling me out in public like Tom Izzo did.

Oh. You've dealt with worse than a few pictures? You would rather have pictures taken of you? I guess I can't understand why those girls complained then. I also don't understand why they developed eating disorders. If YOU could handle it, surely they could, right? What would you tell them if you could? To suck it up? That it's not that big of a deal? Because you could handle it? And I was the one that was "arrogant"?

How much do you know about the situation? Were you there? Just "a few pictures"? How do you know what those girls went through specifically? Well, I mean, you must have some kind of source. Here's what you said: "I'm sure she didn't do it at the beginning but I'm sure she figured out that setting charts with pictures prevented players from showing up out of shape than not." How are you sure? By "sure," did you perhaps mean "I have no idea, but this is my guess"?

Please follow this up with another one of your brilliant posts that demonstrates a lack of reading comprehension, less than stellar command of the English language, and complete deficiency of logic. <3

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Becky Francis &quot;retires&quot; at Oakland (update: &quot;fired for cause&quot

I'm not sure what you just posted. But if all you did was just re-post what I did, it is by far your best post in the history of the board. My last post in this topic is just from the Detroit Free Press article. If anyone reads this and even attempts to defend the practices of what went on, I have nothing to say to that person.

The Free Press interviewed an expert in the field, Paula Turocy, department chairwoman at Duquesne’s School of Health Science who helped write the National Athletic Trainers’ Association’s position statement on weight loss and maintenance practices in sports and exercise. Turocy was told of the accusations but not told the identity of the coach or school.Turocy started with a question: “What training did the coach have in nutrition and weight management?”

Then she added: “With athletic trainers, there’s really no need for coaches to get intimately involved with an athlete’s weight. That’s what we’re trained to do.”

She was stunned that a team could have so many players with eating disorder symptoms.

“I’ve been an athletic trainer for almost 30 years now,” she said, “and I can tell you I don’t think I’ve had four in any sport, including gymnastics, ever.”

Farrell, who graduated in three years, remembered teammates talking to Bachrouche about her eating habits even though she thought Bachrouche was not overweight.

“They would say stuff to her about how much milk she was drinking and this, that and the other, and it was because it was coming from the coach,” Farrell said. “Milk! Who would think that you can only have so much 2% milk when you’re burning off probably 2,000 calories in basketball?”

Turocy said trying to control a player’s caloric intake could backfire on the coach.

“Not only could that impair her performance, which then kind of repeats that cycle of: ‘You’re having poor performance, I’m going to get on you about your weight,’ but it could also make her more susceptible to things like stress fractures, other injuries because you don’t have all the nutrients you need,” Turocy said. “Then, third of all, if you don’t get enough calories what happens is your metabolism starts to slow down and then it’s even harder to lose the extra weight, so it’s a three-strikes-and-you’re-out kind of thing.”

OU players were disgusted last summer when they were asked by an assistant coach, under orders from Francis, to take off their shirts and pose for pictures flexing their muscles, front and back, wearing only their sports bras and Spandex. This was done so there could be before-and-after photos to show body changes, according to three people with knowledge of the situation.

They also said they felt uncomfortable when Francis participated in regular-season practice sessions because of what they termed her obsession with weight. At Colgate in the mid-1980s, Francis had been a four-year starter and three-time captain.

“She would pass the ball around or try to guard us and she would always touch your stomach or always feel for your stomach,” said a former player who asked not to be identified. “After a while she’d be like: ‘Oh, let me feel your six-pack.’ ”

Eventually, players realized there was a direct correlation between weight and playing time.

“It was a really sickening environment because if you weren’t skinny you’d be called out,” said a former player who asked not to be identified. “If you weren’t skinny, you wouldn’t play. If you weren’t skinny, it was automatically assumed you were drinking, you weren’t taking care of your body when, in reality, you needed to get thicker, you were gaining muscle.”

Turocy said it could be dangerous for a coach to determine the proper weight of players.
“Just to create numbers out of the top of your head or to give people weight goals without having scientifically determined what is their safe weight goals is not very good health practice,” she said. “The second part of it is coaches need to worry about their sport. If you’re spending all that time worrying about your athlete’s weight, it takes away from what their real responsibilities are.’’

The Free Press asked Michigan State women’s coach Suzy Merchant how she handled weight issues with her players. Merchant, a head coach for three seasons at Saginaw Valley State, nine seasons at Eastern Michigan and six seasons at MSU, said she never spoke specifically about a player’s weight.

“That’s not something that I’ve ever had conversations about,’’ she said. “I don’t know what our kids weigh. I always talk about a level of fitness and a commitment to being an athlete. We let our strength and conditioning coach and our athletic trainer work with any kids that may need a little extra. And we also have a full-time nutritionist on staff.’’

A Division I assistant coach, who asked not to be identified because it could jeopardize employment, saw Bachrouche, a 6-foot forward, play at North Farmington and at OU and never thought her weight needed monitoring.

“She was not someone you looked at and said: ‘If she ever got in shape, she’d be a pretty good player,’ ” the coach said. “She looked solid and strong. She did not look fat.”

Bachrouche said Francis challenged her to a weight-losing contest before her sophomore season. She also said the constant attention about her weight took a psychological toll.

[witness]

Re: Becky Francis &quot;retires&quot; at Oakland (update: &quot;fired for cause&quot

I didnt claim to know anything but you claimed to know exactly what was happening and exactly what was wrong. I was just putting my opinion on what was reported. I would much rather do that, than 1/4 of the stuff I did for wrestling. I was calling your blatant sarcasm posts arrogant. I didn't say that since I could do it, surely they could do it. I merely stated that I wouldn't mind me picture taken to track progress than publicly called out like Tom Izzo did with Payne. You don't have to develop eating disorders to make weight. Hell, I lost 17lbs a week but didnt become anorexic. Anybody that thinks they are smarter than the people that are posting are arrogant and not as smart as they seem. There is better ways to make your point than sarcasm. I can tell you, if you think that is bad, deal with college wrestling. They do everything twice as hard