Langer and the White House

[filbert]

Re: Langer and the White House

I said:

Either Title IX applied to colleges before 1988, or it didn't.

You said:

Thus, from 1972 to 1984, the government's position was that Title IX compliance was required in all aspects of collegiate activity, not merely those receiving money directly from the government.

You can perhaps understand my confusion with regards to your position.

(free hint: stop trying so hard. The equine's life signs are erratic at best.)

[zooropa]

Re: Langer and the White House

You can perhaps understand my confusion with regards to your position.

Filbert, what's the last word in the phrase you quoted?

when Title IX DID NOT APPLY TO COLLEGE SPORTS?

That's why I find your confusion hard to understand. Outside of Nebraska-Lincoln, 'college' isn't the same as 'college sports'.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Langer and the White House

Lol erased.

[filbert]

Re: Langer and the White House

Filbert, what's the last word in the phrase you quoted?



That's why I find your confusion hard to understand. Outside of Nebraska-Lincoln, 'college' isn't the same as 'college sports'.

See, this is why posting on Friday night is so frickin' hazardous . . .

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Langer and the White House

The Losses to Men’s Athletics

More than 2,200 men’s athletic teams have been eliminated since 1981 to comply with the proportionality prong of the 1979 Title IX Policy Interpretation (a quota system). Thousands of male athletes have been prohibited from participating in collegiate sports and as result, men’s athletic scholarships and coaching positions have evaporated. The law, which was designed to end discrimination against women, is now discriminating against men. For example:

• Boston University dropped its football program due to Title IX pressures after 91 years.
• University of San Francisco cut football after 64 years.
• Colgate University no longer continues men’s baseball after 107 years.
• Cornell University’s men’s fencing team was discontinued after 98 years.
• Princeton University ended its wrestling program for fear of litigation due to an inability to satisfy “proportionality”.
• UCLA dropped its swimming and diving teams in 1994 that had produced 16 Olympic Gold Medalists, 41 individual national titles, and a team title in 1982.
• UCLA abandoned its men’s gymnastics team 10 years after it had produced half of the United States team that won the gold medal in the 1984 Olympics.
• Since 1982, over 64 schools have discontinued swimming and diving programs.
• 355 men’s college wrestling teams (22,000 roster positions) have been eliminated over the past decade.
• James Madison University dropped men’s archery, indoor track, outdoor track, cross country, gymnastics, swimming and wrestling in 2006.
• Rutgers University eliminated men’s lightweight crew, heavyweight crew, swimming, tennis, diving, and fencing in 2007.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Langer and the White House

FALSE: Women are equally interested in participating in collegiate sports as men.

TRUE: According to the National Center for Education Statistics:

• Between 1980 and 1994, males (high school seniors) showed 20% more interest in participating in sports than females.
• Where numbers are largely determined on the basis of interest (intramural sports), 78% of the participants were male and 22% were female.

When Brown University was sued for discrimination:

• 85 slots were left unfilled on women’s teams.
• Eight times as many male students participated in Brown’s intramural program.
• Four times as many male students took part in intramural sports nationally.

[witness]

Re: Langer and the White House

FALSE: Women are equally interested in participating in collegiate sports as men.TRUE: According to the National Center for Education Statistics:

• Between 1980 and 1994, males (high school seniors) showed 20% more interest in participating in sports than females.
• Where numbers are largely determined on the basis of interest (intramural sports), 78% of the participants were male and 22% were female.

When Brown University was sued for discrimination:

• 85 slots were left unfilled on women’s teams.
• Eight times as many male students participated in Brown’s intramural program.
• Four times as many male students took part in intramural sports nationally.

Ya there is a lot more men in intramurals than women in colleges. Some college even have trouble filling women's sports and it is well documented

If you want a crazy read, read about Providence and Title IX

[zooropa]

Re: Langer and the White House

• Boston University dropped its football program due to Title IX pressures after 91 years.
• University of San Francisco cut football after 64 years.
• Colgate University no longer continues men’s baseball after 107 years.
• Cornell University’s men’s fencing team was discontinued after 98 years.
• Princeton University ended its wrestling program for fear of litigation due to an inability to satisfy “proportionality”.
• UCLA dropped its swimming and diving teams in 1994 that had produced 16 Olympic Gold Medalists, 41 individual national titles, and a team title in 1982.
• UCLA abandoned its men’s gymnastics team 10 years after it had produced half of the United States team that won the gold medal in the 1984 Olympics.
• Rutgers University eliminated men’s lightweight crew, heavyweight crew, swimming, tennis, diving, and fencing in 2007.

And yet somehow, a university with a smaller athletic budget than EVERY ONE OF THESE SCHOOLS managed to keep wrestling. And men's swim/dive. And men's tennis. And men's golf. And baseball. And wrestling.

Don't blame Title IX when SDSU has demonstrated that the real issue is institutional incompetence.

Furthermore, if proportionality were as rigidly enforced as Title IX opponents would have you believe, Princeton, Cornell, Colgate and USF would be in trouble for being wildly out of compliance under the proportionality test.

[zooropa]

Re: Langer and the White House

FALSE: Women are equally interested in participating in collegiate sports as men.

TRUE: According to the National Center for Education Statistics:

• Between 1980 and 1994, males (high school seniors) showed 20% more interest in participating in sports than females.

So, what's going on at South Dakota State?

I mean, ultimately, that's the question everyone who opposes Title IX has to answer: What's going on at South Dakota State?

If women do not want to participate in college athletics, then how is it possible for SDSU to fill a proportional number of slots with women who are able to compete as well as their peers in college athletics, and who participate in championship events at a rate more or less equal to the men's programs?

How is this even possible? SDSU does not spend more on women's athletics. Dollar for dollar, they spend almost the same amount per participant.

How is this possible?

If there is a shortage of women who want to compete at the highest levels of college athletics, then how can SDSU easily fill almost every slot with a student athlete that wants to compete?

[zooropa]

Re: Langer and the White House

If you want a crazy read, read about Providence and Title IX

Here's a puzzler:

SDSU budget: $13M, 466 student athletes, 21 sports.
Providence budget: $22M, 249 student athletes, 17 sports.

Could you please explain to me how SDSU manages to field a baseball team and be fully Title IX compliant, while Providence finds it impossible to do so?

Or is it possible that Providence doesn't have the guts to make sacrifices to keep baseball?

Maybe Providence has the wrong attitude about athletics?

The longstanding philosophy at South Dakota State is that athletics are first and foremost an opportunity for students. Further, this is a gender neutral attitude. SDSU also has a very high number of men's sports given its enrollment and budget.

Maybe Providence isn't willing to crimp some money from basketball and hockey to add women's golf and keep baseball, because, maybe they have a money-first/exposure-first/reputation-first attitude toward athletics. Maybe their priorities need to be reassessed. Maybe they can't squeeze $200k (2%) from the roughly $10M basketball & hockey budgets to field a women's golf team.

It is highly ironic to see fans of SDSU eagerly espousing an attitude toward competitive opportunity that is diametrically opposed to SDSU's.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Langer and the White House

Here's a puzzler:

SDSU budget: $13M, 466 student athletes, 21 sports.
Providence budget: $22M, 249 student athletes, 17 sports.

Could you please explain to me how SDSU manages to field a baseball team and be fully Title IX compliant, while Providence finds it impossible to do so?

Or is it possible that Providence doesn't have the guts to make sacrifices to keep baseball?

Maybe Providence has the wrong attitude about athletics?

The longstanding philosophy at South Dakota State is that athletics are first and foremost an opportunity for students. Further, this is a gender neutral attitude. SDSU also has a very high number of men's sports given its enrollment and budget.

Maybe Providence isn't willing to crimp some money from basketball and hockey to add women's golf and keep baseball, because, maybe they have a money-first/exposure-first/reputation-first attitude toward athletics. Maybe their priorities need to be reassessed. Maybe they can't squeeze $200k (2%) from the roughly $10M basketball & hockey budgets to field a women's golf team.

It is highly ironic to see fans of SDSU eagerly espousing an attitude toward competitive opportunity that is diametrically opposed to SDSU's.

I'd like to compare side by side,item by item the two budgets,Providence and South Dakota State.I'm sure, for example,we don't pay our coaching staffs near as much as Providence does,we bus our teams more,etc,etc.......I'm sure there are differences,but nine million difference between the two budgets is quite a bit.Also,some sports are inherently more expensive to fund than others.That plays a part.The thing that ,s really mind blowing is the numbers of student athlete's funded.....466 to 249....WOW

We provide support to more student athletes with less money,proud of that,wish we could afford to pay more to the coaches though,we have such great coaches and their staff's for what we can afford to pay them....bless their souls for staying as long as they can,it's hard to turn a blind eye to other schools who are offering lot's more.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: Langer and the White House

A few thoughts after reading through these posts. 1) One of the great things about the USA is we may express ourselves to the point of refusing a request by our political leaders. 2) Social engineering is not an exact science and frequently doesn't account for the greed of the experimental subjects or the inefficiencies of organizations. 3) We are quite lucky in SD that our governmental organizations are largely very efficient with dollars. 4) Kudos to Filbert for the Hitchhiker's Guide quote.

[Nidaros]

Re: Langer and the White House

A few thoughts after reading through these posts. 1) One of the great things about the USA is we may express ourselves to the point of refusing a request by our political leaders. 2) Social engineering is not an exact science and frequently doesn't account for the greed of the experimental subjects or the inefficiencies of organizations. 3) We are quite lucky in SD that our governmental organizations are largely very efficient with dollars. 4) Kudos to Filbert for the Hitchhiker's Guide quote.

Yeah we are last in everything. So much for effiency.

[bigticket1]

Re: Langer and the White House

Hopefully Langer won't regret missing the opportunity to see many of his friends from that historic team. With most of them being mid-60's or older , and the earlier than normal onset of dementia and other health issues from players of that era , there will probably be fewer of them at every one of their reunions in the future.

[witness]

Re: Langer and the White House

Hopefully Langer won't regret missing the opportunity to see many of his friends from that historic team. With most of them being mid-60's or older , and the earlier than normal onset of dementia and other health issues from players of that era , there will probably be fewer of them at every one of their reunions in the future.

What do you mean? There's a reunion every time the last undefeated team loses.