Missouri River flooding

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

Pretty tough to predict a 500 year rain event across eastern MT. I'm sure the Corps will hire anyone (and pay them A LOT) who can predict that event. They had the reserviors set-up to take the snow runoff, then the huge rain event threw a wrinkle into that plan. The high releases right now are preparing for the snowmelt so the emergency spillways don't have to be used.

The Corps has to balance a lot of interests when managing the system. If they would have had the reserviors at a level capable of holding the rain event and the snow melt and then the rain event didn't happen, the lake levels would have been low and fishing and boating would have suffered. Would have had to move docks like a few years ago, etc. Everyone up and down the river (the peoples whose homes are now flooding) would not have been happy.

Bottom line is you can't control the river 100% of the time. You build close to the river you take a chance. The Army Corps is not to blame, if the river wasn't damed we would have these flooding problems far more often.

I'm not blaming the Corps completely. I'm well aware of all the rain in Montana, but the water level in Lake Oahe was high all winter, and that to me means they weren't completely ready for the snow melt. I personally think they gambled that they would be able to get away with it and then the rain happened and they lost.

Yes, the rain played a major part in this but it wasn't the sole reason for the flooding like they are making it seem.

[goon]

Re: Missouri River flooding

Pierre and Ft. Pierre are generally both located on the bluffs of the Missouri. You'd need to move millions of yards of dirt to build a diversion channel or put in massive, massive tunnels to do any kind of diversion of the flood waters of the Missouri. You are likely talking $100's of millions of dollars to create a project of that magnitude. The simple thing to do to avoid this is just don't let people build houses in the flood plain of a large, unpredictable river like the Mighty Mo.

Maybe thats why I don't get. If you dam a river, how do you deal with the water coming down the river as your actually putting in a dam? is it divereted at all during dam construction, or is it stopped somehow or are they built with regular water flow. Is there any way to know what the cost of preparing for the flooding, building levees, insurance costs, etc. To me they would seem to ofset some.

I live in Sioux Falls like a block from the river and its never been a problem but we have had water issues just because we live at the bottom of a hill with huge amounts of run off. I understand some in the complications of how much do you do to prevent it first and how much is to much and just deal with it or hope it doesnt get to bad etc.

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

I was able to get up in the air today and get some aerial shots of the flooding damage in Pierre and Fort Pierre. Unreal sight. Unfortunately, the whirlpool in Lake Oahe was no longer there, which bummed me out.

Here are some examples of what I saw

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Missouri River flooding

I'm not blaming the Corps completely. I'm well aware of all the rain in Montana, but the water level in Lake Oahe was high all winter, and that to me means they weren't completely ready for the snow melt. I personally think they gambled that they would be able to get away with it and then the rain happened and they lost.

Yes, the rain played a major part in this but it wasn't the sole reason for the flooding like they are making it seem.

First off, nice pictures. It's an amazing amount of water.

I think the problem with the Corps is they have to try to manage the river to keep everyone happy. From the recreationalists to the barge traffic on the Mississippi to their hydroelectric power customers.

On years like this one, it is impossible to do that. I also read in an article the beaucracy in the Corps is a hindrance. Hard to believe that with our government...haha.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Missouri River flooding

Agreed on the great pics. Thanks for sharing.

Hopefully, those that live near the river had purchased flood insurance by back in March. So far, it appears that the open space uses (park, golf course, ball parks) are the parts flooding. The National Flood Insurance Program supports keeping the floodplains open.

Always a tough discussion about wanting to live close to the river, and wanting to pay the costs of living with a known quantifiable risk. This is the 1st time since the dam system was built that the emergency spillway has been used at Garrison. Based on the discussion that I am reading, Oahe will NOT go over the emergency uncontrolled spillway. The Big Sioux, Vermillion, and James have all crested, so now the Corps can start running the reservoirs down to handle the snowmelt to go with the rainfall event in Montana.

This has been a tough year for disasters in the US, and we're just moving into hurricane season. Flooding on the Ohio and Mississippi River hasn't seen the discharges like this since 1927. It will take quite a while to bring the 3 top MO R reservoirs down, and likely to waste some of that great hydropower potential to bring the pools down. In the meantime, Bismark and Pierre/Ft. Pierre, Dakota Dunes will all suffer losses. One of my early actions in FEMA approval was the map revision that led to Dakota Dunes, which means that it was designed and protected from the 1% annual chance flood. Therefore, if flooded by the Mo River, means that the Corps supplied discharges have been exceeded. With over 30% of the NFIP paid claims going to people located outside the 100-year floodplain, means some individuals are willing to say that the flood insurance rate maps are at best an indicator, but still going to provide that additional layer of insurance coverage.

Good luck and success with the floodfight! Post Disaster response, who knows, maybe Rabid will get back to SD for a while.

[leeshajo]

Re: Missouri River flooding

some comments I heard in the Yankton area this week...

was talking to a guy who lives down along the river near Larson's Landing. His words "I always felt if I couldn't spit into the water off of my deck, I was too far away. BUT, the river was here first, it will be here after I am gone. It was my choice to build my house where I did, just like it was my choice to pay for flood insurance. Those who didn't and made the choice not too, should not cry for money from the government." -- I wanted to stand up and applaud.

Then was interviewing a lady who has an acreage West of Yankton about a mile from the James River and a Mile from the Mo. We were talking about people not having flood insurance. I had just spouted off that I can't imagine living near water and not having flood insurance. She said, "I don't have flood insurance. Every year the James gets close to my property but it never actually floods me out. My neighbors though have had water the last few years." at which point I asked why she didn't have it. she said. "I just don't think it will ever get to me." -- what a gamble, why?

There are so many side stories to all of this, you can't imagine.

Forgot to add, the P&D has live streaming of the dam on its website now... just click on the river tab and it will take you to it. yankton.net

[slosho]

Re: Missouri River flooding

In case you have not seen the lake Oahe whirlpool photos, check out the first two photos found on this link.

http://www.disasterrecovery.sd.gov/p...lery_Jun6.aspx

Enjoy...

And in case you are wondering... these are the real deal NO PHOTOSHOP!

[joeboo22]

Re: Missouri River flooding

As far as the Corps keeping the river high all winter. they did release some more last fall, and did start releases earlier then usual. The problem with releasing too much too early is A. you had the worst flood on the Mississippi since 1927 in most places and worse then 1927 in others. If you would release a lot you would have only made it worse. The other problem is you could have a major ice jam down stream if you got a late freeze. There was an ice jam by Springfield a few years ago and it caused some problems and the area was not bad, if you would of had that outside of Omaha or Kansas City it would have had major problems.

The other part of it was the former governor and MANY others in the Pierre area were the #1 complainers a few years ago because the lake wasn't high enough. Well you can't have it both ways.

Now as far as the state legislators saying FEMA should pay 100% instead of 75% I get really upset. Because you are saying that because there are dams which mean it doesn't flood every year only once every 50 years that the federal government should pay more? I'm all for FEMA, I think its a great organization I think for Tornadoes and Hurricanes they have a good reason to help, for flash floods they are good. But for floods in a flood plain where a lot of the houses should not have been built in the first place I could argue that FEMA shouldn't be covering or helping at all.

Also today I read the Press & Dakotan and see that some lawyer is in Niabrara prepared to file a lawsuit against the Corps, and read that Former Gov. Janklow wants to take them to court again. I'm not sure what the legal precedent is in this type of a situation but unless someone can prove that someone flooded the areas on purpose I think its all talk.

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

In case you have not seen the lake Oahe whirlpool photos, check out the first two photos found on this link.

http://www.disasterrecovery.sd.gov/p...lery_Jun6.aspx

Enjoy...

And in case you are wondering... these are the real deal NO PHOTOSHOP!

I really, really wish that was still there when I was up in the air yesterday. Kind of bummed I didn't get to see it.

[Rabbitden]

Re: Missouri River flooding

I really, really wish that was still there when I was up in the air yesterday. Kind of bummed I didn't get to see it.

Been out there for two weeks working with the 842nd building levees, have now moved down river with the 153rd at Dakota Dunes. The whirlpool only last so long because once the water starts flowing it equals out. The water is still going down the shoot but the gravitational pull is not there to cause it to swirl anymore.

[Pierre_Jacks_Fan]

Re: Missouri River flooding

I have read every post and pleased that some people understand the historic nature of this event. First, just to give some background I was born and raised in Pierre and work for the USACE. I have spent the last 17 days working long hours in the SDEM EOC and this was the first time I had an opportunity to catch up on my passion: All things Jackrabbits.

I can answer many of your questions and will do my part to discredit many rumors that are out there. I ask for all to pray for all those affected by the 2011 flood in the Missouri River Basin.

[mango4]

Re: Missouri River flooding

This was taken up in Bismarck. Watch all the way through the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUCMa...&feature=share

[Prairiehaas]

Re: Missouri River flooding

You just want to say to the camera, get out of there!